Talk me out of a SportWagen TDI

[schuss]

I test drove it, and it felt gutless and cheap. Vague clutch, floaty steering and didn't even have the torque jump you expect from a diesel. Interior was super-plasticky, not the fine interiors I've come to expect from VW. Seriously disappointed.

[::: :::]

can't comment on the '12

i owned an 02 tdi jetta wagon
and i currently own a 04 tdi passat wagon (upgraded for size - i'm 6-5; altho i understand the current jetta wagon is bigger than ours was)

i've driven them both for camping and skiing, and largely they get it done. biggest complaint is ground clearance (4.5" [for realz!]) and wheel clearance (for putting on chains)

neither have had engine issues or significant servicing

if you were asking me now, i'd be buying the subie for the ground clearance and awd, but i'm pretty happy with the tdi and it is aging well so far

[Pegleg]

Well, I'm talked out of a Sportwagen TDI now. Glad I just ordered a Subaru.

[back bowl]

I've had an older Jetta wagon TDI for a while now and used to drive subarus exclusively. The Jetta's fine. It's easy to maintain and hasn't had any real problem in the time I've owned it- just the usual wear parts. That said, nothing about it is special apart from the milage. I drive a shitton, so getting 45-50mpg is important to me- a week of driving the jetta costs me about $45 where a week in the legacy would cost me $79. If I didn't drive 500+ miles a week, I'd get a subaru again, but not because the jetta sucks, just because it's nothing special..

[guroo270]

I bought my '06 Forester XT from a person that was buying a new Forester. They were really hesitant to let it go. I'm never going to sell it. Can't wait to get it tuned. The '06-'08 2.5 liter turbo engine is the way to go, unless you happen to like how incredibly boring the styling has become. Up to '08, and I'm not positive they have fixed the issue on naturally aspirated engines, you do not want a non turbo vehicle. First, you'll be sad how slow your car is. Second, your head gasket will not need fixing at 80-100k miles like (~$2k). And third, the gas mileage is about the same w/ the exception that the turbo needs the preems gasoline. It did take me 6 months to find the right one though. They are scarce and people get what they are asking for them.

[brutah]

Driving in snow in FWD VW is like trying to eat soup with a fork.

you just don't know how to drive FWD in the snow....
i really think people overemphasize having 4wd and AWD, in most places in the world you only need AWD a handful of days at best..... now if you're driving off road on dirt frequently that's a whole new story.

The TDi has a great resell value but then again so does subaru. my girlfriend drives a jetta tdi and I have a subaru impreza. the TDI gets about double the mileage than the subby. for me, that's a HUGE selling point. I think the resell value of the tdi will only rise with gas prices and such..... then again my buddy just sold his subaru for the same price he bought it for 2 years ago

[PNWbrit]

you just don't know how to drive FWD in the snow....

Very slowly, lot's of getting stuck, lot's of pushing, crawling around in the slush putting chains on?

[alembical]

I agree with the overemphasis on awd. I have a subie with Nokian snow tires and it is great in the snow. I also have a front wheel drive VW with BFG All-Terrain T/As and it does remarkably well too. Only major difference to me are the places that require 4 wheel drive or chains, as I can not put chains on my VW. Just did a 3,000 mile trip in OR, ID, WY and MT with lots of snowy roads and mountain passes and never regretted the decision to not drive the subie. Good tires matter much more than awd, fwd, rwd, 4wd, etc.. for on road driving, in my opinion.

[Snow Dog]

?? Last I heard, there was no part redesign from Bosch. This thread here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=333924 is very recent, and seems to echo that. I know people are adding lubricity additives when they tank up, and crossing their fingers, but unless I've missed something the situation hasn't been ironed out.

if you have a link to other info, please provide it when you get a chance. thx.

There's a lot of TDI apologists out there. Being from the Diesel truck side I have these comments:
-- Every manufacturer claims "bad fuel" as a way of shirking their warranty responsibilities.
-- Bosch injector pumps have been used on Dodge/Cummins and GM/Duramax for a long time. They work just fine. VW is probably pushing the cost-reliability envelope and blaming the results on "owner error". The older (pre 99) TDI motors were solid and are transplanted into all sorts of vehicles.

[Benny Profane]

Second, your head gasket will not need fixing at 80-100k miles like (~$2k).

They fixed the head gasket problem in '03. And, it was about five grand, is you missed the recall letter. If you were aware of the issue, the repair was free.

[Alaskan Rover]

I love my Jetta Sportwagen. Better built, more fun to drive and better MPGs than any Outback. Mine's got 4 snow tires so it kills it in in the snow.

I'm assuming the sportwagon is a transaxle-type tranverse engine front-drive vehicle. Is it? or is it a rear-drive like a Mercedes wagon? Makes a big difference in winter drivability, I think.

But regardless, in snow country when you have HILLS to contend with, 4WD or AWD trumps front or rear drive all the time. I've driven many rear-drives with success in snow and front-drive does fine in snow with proper tires. But once you get some steep snow-covered hills with packed snow or ice under the snow, you're not going anywhere. Of course, in those particularly tricky snow-over-ice situations, you're not going anywhere in your subby either unless you have studded snowtires or better yet....CHAINS.

I'm a huge proponent of tire chains on the driving wheels. I use four on my rover. If you do get the VW wagon, make sure you get a good set of chains !!!

--

[HankScorpio]

I'm assuming the sportwagon is a transaxle-type tranverse engine front-drive vehicle. Is it? or is it a rear-drive like a Mercedes wagon? Makes a big difference in winter drivability, I think.

But regardless, in snow country when you have HILLS to contend with, 4WD or AWD trumps front or rear drive all the time. I've driven many rear-drives with success in snow and front-drive does fine in snow with proper tires. But once you get some steep snow-covered hills with packed snow or ice under the snow, you're not going anywhere. Of course, in those particularly tricky snow-over-ice situations, you're not going anywhere in your subby either unless you have studded snowtires or better yet....CHAINS.

I'm a huge proponent of tire chains on the driving wheels. I use four on my rover. If you do get the VW wagon, make sure you get a good set of chains !!!


--

The Jetta wagon is FWD. I've had huge success with snows and FWD. I'm convinced you can have the fanciest AWD car in the world but it doesn't do you any good if your tires are inadequate.

[goldenshowers]

I have 2 2003 Golf's both TDI. Ground clearance was an issue but its really easy to lift them 2 inches and throw a metal skid plate on. Coupled with a set of studded Nokian H7's and you'll go almost anywhere. As for mileage, the one has 427 000km and gets 60 mpg and keeps getting better with age. Can't go wrong with that. I made it from Vancouver to Edmonton on one tank of fuel (1200km)! Furthermore these cars are so easy to work on. Check out http://www.tdiclub.com a wealth of knowledge to fix ANY problem.

[Benny Profane]

The Jetta wagon is FWD. I've had huge success with snows and FWD. I'm convinced you can have the fanciest AWD car in the world but it doesn't do you any good if your tires are inadequate.

This is true.

Scariest sight I see are these massive SUVs that probably weigh three tons riding around on nearly bald tires. As soon as two inches fall, it will take them a quarter mile to stop from 60 mph.

[HankScorpio]

I have 2 2003 Golf's both TDI. Ground clearance was an issue but its really easy to lift them 2 inches and throw a metal skid plate on. Coupled with a set of studded Nokian H7's and you'll go almost anywhere. As for mileage, the one has 427 000km and gets 60 mpg and keeps getting better with age. Can't go wrong with that. I made it from Vancouver to Edmonton on one tank of fuel (1200km)! Furthermore these cars are so easy to work on. Check out http://www.tdiclub.com a wealth of knowledge to fix ANY problem.

Lifting a Golf? Hmm this sounds interesting.

[goldenshowers]

2 inch lift: http://www.metalnerd.com/cat09.htm

[bagtagley]

The 2012 Jetta can't be compared to previous models. The same can be said for the Passat. Just me personally, but I wouldn't buy a 2012 Jetta.

[goldenshowers]

FYI the ALH TDI engine (2003) was their most reliable and best built diesel. They changed to a PD engine in 2004 and have not seen mileage numbers and reliability numbers as high since the 03.

[TomCrac]

Once upon a time....I thought we were going to get a sport wagon. My wife wanted to try out a mini van...UGGH.... We drove the Toyota Sienna (09). This car drives like a dream, supper quite and tight, turns on a dime, decked out in leather/wood etc, nice JBL sound system. Love the sliding doors....It sucks up almost anything with in reason, in and out with non sliding doors sucks in comparison. Windows that actually work on the sliding doors. Great pep when you step on it (everyone is always surprised, including me and I have owned it for almost 4 years now). I couldnt afford the AWD version at the time and have only gotten "stuck" once (couldnt get over this one hill during a snow storm, probably could have if I had better tires, had to retreat to the parking lot and walk it). Maybe AWD on my next one if they didnt f'up the newer models. You can dress them up so they dont look entirely douchey. Thought I would never be caught dead driving one but it has been so good to me that I dont give a f*ck ... my 2 cents...flame on....

[Tuckerman]

I dont think a mini van would work my wife drives 120 miles a day back and forth to work the $gas$ would suck.

[4matic]

I dont think a mini van would work my wife drives 120 miles a day back and forth to work the $gas$ would suck.

In that respect, Subaru's don't get very good mileage for as small as they are with the AWD.

[iceman]

...my wife drives 120 miles a day back and forth to work the $gas$ would suck.

Pornstache optional.

[Benny Profane]

In that respect, Subaru's don't get very good mileage for as small as they are with the AWD.

Re: The new 2012 Impreza. Much improved. See the thread in tech talk.

[frorider]

In that respect, Subaru's don't get very good mileage for as small as they are with the AWD.

.
Disagree. My 06 outback has enough room for me to sleep in when needed (I'm 6' 3"), fits my super long WB Mtn bikes and 200 cm skis, regularly gets 29 or 30 mpg from a tank. Not Internet mpg, realworld mpg.

Often overlooked is the impact of drag coefficient. Prev gen outbacks are long and tapered, with lower Cd than any compact SUV but also lower than an Audi TT, for example. This means that if you regularly cruise at 65-70 mph, the mpg vs mph hit isn't bad.

[Tuckerman]

Too bad this won't be in the US.

Subaru has the Legacy and Outback and now Volkswagen has the Passat and the Passat Alltrack.