Dog mags / arm chair vets / Legit Vets....help.

[Blatant]

So i have a heeler that'll be turning 3 shortly. Since October he's been consistently loosing weight. He went from 52lbs to his current weigh in today of 42lbs. He was always around 45-47, fatted up regularly to 52lbs and since october become skin and bones. His demeanor and behavior is nothing short of fantastic. Still happy, loves to run, play fetch, eat all his food and all the normal dog things...he is just losing weight as if he's not processing or taking in the nutrients of the food...just shooting right thru him.

His shit is the consistency of soft serve ice cream and dispenses the same to nice sloppy "pie" His belly is constantly grumbling. It has never done this before. He is also farting constantly at times. The grumbling and churning is almost constant especially when he curls up at night and farting is on and off, sometimes not at all. This is uncharacteristic of him.

I took him to the vet, they "checked" his stool on site, did a few more what appeared to be routine things, finger in his hatch, gums etc...didn't find anything. They sent us off with an antibiotic and a pro biotic to sprinkle on his "boiled chicken and rice" dinner. Instructions were the bland diet and antibiotic for a week and towards the end of the antibiotic cycle i was to work in the probiotic and regular food (food is blue buffalo)

During this initial round, the stool almost got back to normal, with bouts of squishiness but nothing like the soft serve ice cream. They also took blood to check for valley fever, lyme or any other sorts of anomaly for the local area and it all came back with no issues. In the mean time finished up the month long cycle of probiotic and nothing really changed however during this cycle, he did have many shats that were almost normal interspersed with the soft serve. After the cycle, straight soft serve.

Took him in today for more blood as they said it could be the pancreas and another stool sample that will be "sent out" to where ever it goes. They also alluded to a fcked up / inflamed intestine that they can determine with an ultra sound.

I'm not looking for a diagnosis but more of an education when dealing with the Vet. She is cool and isn't pushing shit on us but I'm up to a G already with no end in sight. I want to make sure i'm not taking the "LONG" way to the same resolution. I feel horrible that he is getting skinnier by the week. The only thing that keeps my spirit up is that he is still super happy and playful, not mopey or weird.


/not so sweet blog.

[LT]

I'm sure you've thought of or covered this but maybe he's developed an allergy or something to his food? What about changing that up and just seeing what it does? Couldn't hurt, right?

I'm not a vet and don't know shit just a thought. Good luck.

[irul&ublo]

Try going on an OTC probiotic. Purina makes one, pretty cheap. My last GSD had similar symptoms (w/o weight loss) and once we gave it to him on a reguar basis, it cleared up.

EDIT...It's called Fortiflora. Also, since he is under vet care, you should probably check.

[Blatant]

irul, that's exactly what we were giving him... it definitely seemed to make a bit of difference. i'll inquire about a regimen...guess it can't hurt at this point, see what she says.

foods been tweaked, doesn't seem to really make a difference, with cheaper food, when he was normal it caused him to shit more, albeit regular shit but more nonetheless.

[PNWbrit]

i'll inquire about a regiment...

He probably wouldn't pass a military medical?

Vibes to your pooch.

[liv2ski]

My new best friend was raised on raw meat and bones by his foster mom the 3 months he lived with her. I know, kind of gross to chop it all up yourself, but if you will spend the cash for the ground up meats/veggies/bones your guy will have solid small poops, fresh breath and gorgeous fur.
Change his food for sure. I use http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/dog
I have been told these two companies are very good too. http://www.halshan.com/index.html http://www.darwinspet.com
Good luck to you and your buddy.

Edit: If you are giving him any sort of turkey jerky or dried out meat treat, stop it. My previous Keeshond had a majorly fucked up stomach and gross shits. Once I stopped the turkey treats, he was good in about 3-4 days.

[hutash]

Sounds like a reasonably work up so far. Not sure ultrasound may say much, but endoscopy and biopsies of stomach and small intestines may be necessary, but I would not rush into. A diet change is a simple and easy thing to do, and I would try a low allergen or novel protein diet (talk to your vet.) Personally I would stay away from raw diets for all the symptoms your dog is showing. A Salmonella infection is not fun to deal with.

It sounds like your vet is running a TLI test looking for pancreatic insufficiency, if not she should. I do a couple of fecal floats, a direct fecal smear, and rectal cytology on such cases, again, it sounds like she is/has done these. If all else fails, I do a course of Panacur which will gets un-diagnosed worms, or may deal with Giardia. Once I have worked through all the easy, cheap treatments/diagnostics, then I consider endoscopy and other such stuff. I hate spending clients money if I can treat it cheaply first....I know, I am not up holding the credit card raping traditon some here so firmly believe, but that's just how I am.

Good luck and feel free to PM, or send some digits if you want to talk about it. All in all it sounds like your vet has a good handle on it.

Cheers

[Blatant]

hutash, i think she is on the path you've described as the pancreas blood was drawn this am and the new baggie of shat was to be sent away, rather than reviewed in the office, so hopefully that's what they're up to. She too doesn't seem to be trying to immediately fleece us.

The poor boy is extra tired today as he gave blood. As for the ultra sound, she stated that there is no sense in cutting him open to determine what you need to determine. She feels that if the intestine is jacked, an ultrasound will often show abnormal or swollen signs...or whatever it shows and that would be enough to go on to make an educated next step. I'm all for avoiding slicing him, besides the cutting you alluded to above she was talking about 1500 or so. I'm not sure it's exactly the same thing but sounds like the same path. Thanks for the internet diagnosis and i appreciate the phone consult if necessary.

Did y'all know they have a pet web md...it's as bad as reading the one for a human if you have something wrong with you.

[The Reverend Floater]

I do a couple of fecal floats, a direct fecal smear,

Heh.

Sorry.

[haydukelives]

I dont know about worms,but giardia can be very difficult to diagnose in humans ,and the treatment is cheap and fairly benign.....I have had it several times myself

[jm2e]

I'd try a few different foods. My dogs have reacted way different to different foods. Either getting an allergy specific or GI specific one or something like a Lamb & Rice formula tends to keep your ingredients more consistent

Honestly, I don't know how big your dog is, but 52 sounds heavy for a healer and keeping him "fatted up" ain't that great. Most Americans see dogs like they see Americans and assume a healthy dog is too thin and a fat dog is just right.

A vet friend of my wife's has a slogan: "don't make a healthy dog sick". If he isn't acting sick, don't kill him or your bank account with diagnostics while desperately trying to wring a disease out of him.

If you do want to keep plugging away, consider going to a vet who's board certified in internal medicine.
Good luck.

[Tor-tour]

You didn't mention it, but we found our dog gets similar symptoms from anything rawhide or dehydrated meat. Exact same symptoms you described, got her off the rawhide chew bones and things went back to normal. Now we just microwave up some beef bones instead.

[irul&ublo]

I dont know about worms,but giardia can be very difficult to diagnose in humans ,and the treatment is cheap and fairly benign.....I have had it several times myself

Sodomizing goats can transmit girardia? Someone should PM Rontele

[hutash]

No, everyone knows you get it from eating beaver.

[crackboy]

Is his poop mucusy?

[Blatant]

no rawhide, not ever.

I couldn't get this dog fat if i tried even when he was normal, figure of speech. After a 10mile ride he is then just getting warmed up. The beast lives to fetch or run, constantly.

Shat isn't mucousy or slimey, just super soft.

[Alaskan Rover]

I'm sure your vet checked thoroughly, but are you SURE they checked for tape worm?? It's just that the symptons you describe combined with no change in manner or attitude sure sounds like tape worm. But tape worm is extremely hard to mis-diagnose...as the worms are readily evident.

On an off note, I'd think of doing a white blood cell count...they are a fairly inexpensive test...but that was probably done also. I'd find out, though.

--

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Tape worms are not hard to miss, but you do have to look for them. However, they are easy to kill with many different dewormers.

Obviously, Hutash has you on the right path. Giardia popped into my head, but I only own dogs, I don't treat my own. And the treatment is cheap and benign for Giardia. You might just run it up the flagpole too, and see if your doc has already ruled that out. Sounds like an IBD thing though. Good luck.

[crackboy]

IBD would cause mucusy poop, though it does sound a lot like it.

our dog has it. it is a pain in the ass but its managable

[hutash]

IBD would cause mucusy poop, though it does sound a lot like it.

our dog has it. it is a pain in the ass but its managable

Not necessarily, in fact, not commonly. For those who aren't part of the cool kids group, IBD is "inflammatory bowel disease". Sounds like too many hot chillies.

[Blatant]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll inquire...i wondered about a tape worm too but didn't mention it. I don't want to be "that dude" at the vet with things to check, but i'm getting there. Also tonight after checking his shat, i looked like there were a few piece of "cottage cheese" in there, just white and chunky, about the size of large curd, here and there. Source a stick and they were as soft as cottage cheese too. Not sure on that...kind of frustrating.

[hutash]

Just don't start the conversation, "I read on the internet that..." We like informed clients, it actually makes our job easier, but too many people think a couple hours on the innertubes is equivalent to a DVM degree and 25 years in practice. Some think it superior.

The other thing never to say to your vet is "My breeder said..."

[Blatant]

I'd never say it either way, way more tact than that.

So the prognosis of the pancreas turned into the alleged correct diagnosis...at this time. I guess only time will tell but i suspect "tests" are pretty spot on.

They stated he has Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency as well as a deficiency in B12, which apparently requires a daily or periodic SHOT.

Not sure what's involved in this yet besides $165.00 per 8 oz of the supplement required for the pancreas and some sort of nominal fee on the "shots"

I'll keep you all posted for reference since a lot of you have mongrels. Hutash, you sure know a lot about dogs for being a dentist.

[hutash]

Yeah, dogs are my dental sub-specialty.

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Yeah, dogs are my dental sub-specialty.

Luckily, I read this while I was not actively drinking anything. Cause that is fuckin' funny!