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  1. #1
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    Eugenio Oregón
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    Serious shoulder questions for BC skiers, and my own labrum WTF thread

    First, a really serious questions for those of you with a history of shoulder dislocations who tour in the backcountry - especially those who opted to not surgically repair:

    Imagine this scenario - you and your partner fucked up. Didn't read the terrain and windslab properly and now your best buddy is under 3 feet of debris (you know because you practice beacon and probe searching every season, right?). So, now your task is to relocate about 45 cubic feet of heavy sintered snow (5 feet wide by 2 feet high by 4.5 feet into the slope), which happens to weigh around 850 pounds at 30% water density, as fast as humanly possible because the debris just keeps setting up firmer and firmer and your bud is choking on snow and CO2.

    Except that last year, your MRI showed a signal suspicious for a torn labrum and the doctor wanted you to get the arthroscopic surgery. Did you do the surgery or do the rehab? How do you feel about moving all that snow in the next 5-7 minutes with your bum shoulder? (and just to be clear, this is about repeat dislocation during rescue becoming a liability as opposed to dealing with pain)

    I do not think I can conscientiously choose the rehab and then feel okay touring in groups of less than 4 people. How often do you tour in groups of 4 people, especially when trying to move fast for deeper, bigger objectives, such as overnighters? I'd say that well over 50% of my touring has been me and my partner. And it's not like I've never practiced shoveling. I am religious about "chop, chop, chop" shoveling to move pre-cut blocks rather than trying to shear off wedges of snow from a lifting position (which is more likely to cause injury and fatigue). But working fast even with good technique, for 7 minutes of continuous shoveling the shoulder will undoubtedly get torqued. I've thought about this several ways, but I think this question is probably the single most deciding factor for treatment if I say that I absolutely will not give up backcountry skiing/boarding.



    Second, now that you have thought about the question, here is my situation.
    * 32 years old (in 6 weeks)
    * First time dislocation of the left (non-dominant) shoulder - inferior dislocation
    * MRI shows anterior labral tear, minor hill sachs injury of posterior superolateral humeral head, mild suprastinatus tendinopathy but no full thickness rotator cuff tear, some subacromial impingement
    * Other than the minimal hill sachs, no bone damage - xrays look good
    * 2 weeks post injury and every day feels different - but the shoulder just feels messed up. Like the all the muscles nearby - pec, bicep, delt, lat - are confused and compensating differently every day. Reaching far in front of me or behind me can be slightly to incredibly painful
    * Arm came out while I was gym climbing in a hyper abducted position (sideways stemmed across a corner with left arm overhead on a sloper), and a sudden shift in body weight + my grabbing firmly with the left arm created a lever that forced my arm out of its joint - inferior dislocation (loud as hell SNAP! sound)
    * Tingling sensation while dislocated from nerves impinged but I reduced it immediately and the tingling went away after a minute
    * Only history on that shoulder is that I fell very hard on it 11 years ago and it didn't dislocate but it was messed up for 6 weeks or so
    * No complications from a recent lung surgery (two fat 1" ports or something, titanium staples, lung tissue cutting) or anesthesia. My skin does scar very badly from surgery, and I think my rib muscles scarred up a bit from the fat 1/2" chest tube I had between my ribs for 3 days after lung surgery ... but the chiro worked out a lot of the rib displacement issues and got me re-aligned.


    So I've been going back and forth about this, and leaning toward surgery. My doc wants me to do arthroscopic surgery to re-attach the labrum with anchors. He said that anyone else he would ask to try rehab but he does not think I will be happy without surgery. And he thinks I can ski without the surgery, but a) a bad pole plant could be game over, and b) he's not so sure about climbing and mountain biking given my current pain symptoms.

    Everyone who didn't do the surgery and hasn't yet had major recurrent problems is saying not to do it; everyone who did it without problems is saying to do it; the folks who waited, had problems, and then did it successfully are saying it was the best thing they could have done and should have just done it right the first time around; and every once in a while for some people it just does not work out as planned and life sucks.

    Here's how you can help - convince me why I shouldn't cut, or tell me what information I should get before cementing my decision.

    Many thanks ... I'm so fucking tired about reading about this nonstop for the last 3 days and being confused out of my mind.
    Last edited by SchralphMacchio; 01-03-2012 at 09:56 AM.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  2. #2
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    Cant remember all the technical stuff on what part of my shoulder etc... was messed up but crashed cranking over on a ice bump i didn't see at about 60mph!! My shoulder ended up under my arm pit. Same side left non dominant. The Doctor and specialist said it will never heal without surgery. I talked to quite a few guys who had surgery and they all said it never got better. I talked to one guy I work with that had surgery on one shoulder then dislocated the other one!! Bad luck!! Any way he elected to not go with the same doctors recommendation to repair surgically. He said that shoulder is far better than the one he had surgery on!!

    I decided to take my chances for a while. i didn't even do rehab as such? I rehabbed myself. I knew I would have to strengthen the muscles that hold the shoulder in. dislocate just tying up my shoes!! I was like WTF!!! any way after about the 3rd time its easy to pop buck in with no pain. After 10 or 20 times the darn thing coming out i really watched what I was doing. i figured i better try and move to keep the shoulder in!! Du! Anyway that was 3 years ago. Its hasn't come out in 2 years. i can lift and shovel all day long now. I'm still aware that I don't want it to come out but there is no pain and i can dead lift 500lbs. The key is to just take it easy and if theres pain stop!! it might get better? You really have to give it some serious time though!! Every time it comes out it {stays loose}. The longer it stays in the tighter the muscles will get to hold it in. The only real time I notice it is when bench pressing. Every other movement seems fine. I just do light weight when pressing. I can curl and do tricep press downs and Pulling motions just like before the whipe out.


    I say hang in there for a year and see what happens. If its not poping out all the time thats a good thing. It might for the first while untill you relize the motions that case it to wiggle out. The second time is almost as pain full as the first time!!! I went to the hospital twice untill a nurse showed me a good way to pop it back in again. When you get close it just falls into place and your back to normal right away with no pain right way. The first time it was so painfull after the accident I wished they would have just shot me!! They had to put me asleep to get it from under my arm pit. That was funny comming to again. I wanted to marry the female doctor right infront of my wife.. She was hot!! Might have been the morphine? LOL If its not going to get better it wont matter how long you wait anyway. They can still repair it latter if need be. Mine was really bad and i don't even notice it now 3 years later. Just don't reach for any thing heavy and find a good sleeping positing. I have to lay on my stomach with my left arm over a shallow pillow. That seems to be the best position to rest the shoulder. I would wake up to my shoulder dislocated at first until I found a stationary sleep position were I wouldn't move.


    Thats my story on this. I'm glad I didn't get sugary. Once they do something its never the same again is what Ive heard? Not like blowing out your knee. Just slowly strengthen your shoulder muscles to help keep it in. Work the good untorn ones to hold it in. Maybe study a shoulder chart and ask a personal trainer what exercise will target the muscles not torn. Then maybe by tightening up those ones the torn sections can get close enough to the bone to attach a little or you'll learn to move a little different to compensate? Good Luck!!
    Last edited by Whipper; 12-23-2011 at 03:05 AM.
    FACTION

  3. #3
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    not an issue imo, inless it maybe had just popped out (although i'm not familiar with the limitations of your particular case). my case (and most i know) have problems with the opposite type of movement. try to image in if you had to dig your buddy out while hanging from your boots. impossible. but regular shoveling for me is the type of activity that holds my shoulder in. Even so, it would be important to not go at it in a frantic manner, but that is best in those situations to remain calm and calculated anyway.
    i guess what i am saying is shoveling just isn't an issue especially if you work at your technique.

    Having said that, the type of chopping you do with your shovel into a spring snowpack to clear a road or build a wind fence could cause you problems, but that's just cause there will be alcohol involved. in other words, it will pop out again without surgery. the more it happens the easier it gets, then it happens less as you get older but it remains easier, which is nice.
    i would expect that i may have some sort of arthritic issues with it if i ever get older, but i would also expect that with an operated shoulder.


    the one other thing i notice (but you should ask your doc) is that waiting doesn't seem to have a negative impact, at least in your example.

    the other side of that coin is that if it's gonna take a full year for rehab you are going to miss a winter no matter what, and this seems like a good one to miss.

    edit- oh yeah,kayaking sucked. i can do it now though. rafting, you need to be on the right side for a while.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  4. #4
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    I'll try to get my dpt spancer to give you a good medical reply.
    on my second torn r cuff surgery. 1st one a few years ago tore it mntbin
    in aug sept big tear skied out the season. Not to worried about shit hit the fan performance adrenaline will cover that. Imo did surgery mid april back to full rowing casting form by 4th of july.
    Tore left one this aug mntbin w/ skis on back fall. Smaller tear but bicep torn to. surgery mid oct.
    went well until ~ 10 weeks post op got boot laces/hooks tangled and thrown down in shop, possibly retearing repair.
    had MRI yesterday can't find anyone to read it till tues.
    lookin at possibly not skiiing this winter if needed to be redone or ride it out and do it again in spring.
    Which would mean no guiding/rowin, no construction work, and generally little way of $$$ earning. I am pretty skilled at the one armed gardening
    thing, but don't grow much cash crop
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  5. #5
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    [mrs. sfb]Most people do end up going for surgery at some point when they have a labral tear. It can predispose you to have a "sloppy" joint which can lead to rotator cuff damage over time and possible recurrent episodes. Outcomes of labral repair are good over time, but the recovery does suck. Even arthroscopically (do make sure you find a surgeon who can do it arthroscopically) it is 6 weeks in a sling with return to sports usually 4-6 months.[/mrs. sfb]
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    [mrs. sfb]Most people do end up going for surgery at some point when they have a labral tear. It can predispose you to have a "sloppy" joint which can lead to rotator cuff damage over time and possible recurrent episodes. Outcomes of labral repair are good over time, but the recovery does suck. Even arthroscopically (do make sure you find a surgeon who can do it arthroscopically) it is 6 weeks in a sling with return to sports usually 4-6 months.[/mrs. sfb]
    Ditto. Shoulder instability can, and likely will, lead to a heap of complications: early onset of arthritis, rotator cuff damage, neck pain and degeneration, AC joint impingement, recurring dislocations, etc. The Hill-Sachs is the kicker in my opinion. As for timing on the surgery, waiting (months vs years) is not necessarily detrimental--can actually be a positive if it gives time to decrease the current inflammation and to increase the strength and function of the rotator cuff and scapular stabilizers--as long as you don't develop bad movement habits. You're going to be out for a while so pick which activity/season you're most willing to skip. I have a patient right now who is winding down therapy at ~14 weeks out. Road biking resumed at about week 10. Skiing is ok to resume whenever we get some decent snow. Also, talk to the doc about a capsulorrhaphy (tightening of the shoulder joint capsule). Since your dislocation was inferior, capsular laxity is not as big of an issue, but it may test hypermobile in other directions as well. Digging out a burial? Thankfully never been there, but I think you and your shoulder would be capable of doing whatever it takes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    regular shoveling for me is the type of activity that holds my shoulder in.
    Thanks, that's the most useful info so far. I think I'm willing to give up climbing, despite the extreme abundance of beautiful women who engage in the activity and also find it attractive in guys. But I would never want to be a liability and compromise a skiing partner with a medical limitation.


    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    the other side of that coin is that if it's gonna take a full year for rehab you are going to miss a winter no matter what, and this seems like a good one to miss.
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    [mrs. sfb]Most people do end up going for surgery at some point when they have a labral tear.
    Quote Originally Posted by acetabulum View Post
    Ditto.
    Yeah, there is that whole thing too. That's why 2 of my coworkers who have done it just said, do it now to do it right. Especially during what looks so far like a crappy season.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whipper View Post
    My shoulder ended up under my arm pit. Same side left non dominant.
    That's an inferior dis ... apparently it happens in less than 0.5% of the time. We must have both gotten lucky because usually the inferior takes out your rotator cuff. Thanks for the info ... still seems a little scarier for me if my partners are depending on my snow moving skills and rope handling skills for their lives ...
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio View Post
    ...
    now that you have thought about the question, here is my situation.
    * 32 years old (in 6 weeks)
    * First time dislocation of the left (non-dominant) shoulder - inferior dislocation
    * MRI shows anterior labral tear, minor hill sachs injury of posterior superolateral humeral head, mild suprastinatus tendinopathy but no full thickness rotator cuff tear, some subacromial impingement
    * Other than the minimal hill sachs, no bone damage - xrays look good
    * 2 weeks post injury and every day feels different - but the shoulder just feels messed up. Like the all the muscles nearby - pec, bicep, delt, lat - are confused and compensating differently every day. Reaching far in front of me or behind me can be slightly to incredibly painful
    Emphasis mine.

    My shoulder didn't dislocate but was pretty well useless when I got cut. 2/3 of supraspinatus torn through, subacromial process the size of a Hershey's kiss and a Grade 2 SLAP tear to the labrum. I tried PT and cortisone earlier that year, but a head-first, unplanned dismount off the bike and a badly executed kayak roll screwed that effort up pretty well. By that time I couldn't assemble & use a probe, let alone a shovel. I decided I would ultimately do more than six months of painful rehab if I didn't get the surgery, then have to go through the whole drill again when I finally had to get cut.

    The surgery and recovery wasn't bad - the rehab was every bit the painful, depressing bitch described by others. Six months of PT agony with no skiing, cycling or 'yaking made me cranky and fat(er).

    To the points quoted, my Doc told me the subacromial thing was only going to get bigger (and do an even better job of shredding the supraspinatus muscle) and the SLAP tear wasn't likely to get better on its own either - at that point it already hurt bad when I tried to lift a beer out of the back of the refrigerator. If your Doc draws the same conclusion on both of these points, I'd say go for the knife - get everything fixed in one surgery and go through the rehab once.

    One other recommendation if you do elect the knife - DO NOT GET THE PAIN PUMP! Mine leaked like a sieve and I yanked it after two days - Dr wasn't happy about that, but the meds didn't do much good as a topical - easier to regulate the pain with pills (and lots of Colace to soften your shit)

    Good luck

  10. #10
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    thanks ... I think I can handle shoulder pain. I had lung surgery w/ chest tube coming out of my body (allows the blood to drain out and maintains negative pressure for air leaks etc) for 3 days and bruised ribs 18 months ago ... if you want to talk PAIN ...
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  11. #11
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    Did mine in 04, torn superspinatus & torn labrum, no dislocation. Was my dominant right shoulder and not having it done wasn't really an option. Could barely lift it above my head, range of motion improved only slightly after about 4 weeks of rest & constant icing and ibus.
    In my case, rehab was slow and took much longer than I was told or ever would've thought. It was weak and I could barely lift anything of even slight heft above my head for at least a year. Had recurring biceps tendonitis for a good 5 years and only the past couple have I been able to throw hard and without pain from the outfield. I'd say it's at about 90% today, don't expect to ever get that 10% back but I am nearly 50.
    It never pops out on me but never did, that was never my particular issue. When it gets sore/tired/fatigued from overuse, it's always the biceps tendonitis that flares up for me. Even after all that, I am pain free today and happy I didn't let anybody talk me into just rehabbing.

    Good luck and heal up quick. You're not missing a damn thing right now.
    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size."

  12. #12
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    Been there done that. Here's my story.

    February 2006 several weeks after my boy was born, I disclocated my shoulder falling on an icy patch. A couple weeks of rest then was diagnosed with torn rotator cuff. I couldn't reach above chest level, and my wife was pissed that I couldn't change diapers for my boy.

    Scheduled surgery for end of March. I knew that my shoulder was fucked up already so I continued to ski up to surgery date.

    PT was painful but fast. Ended up skiing at the end of the season and windsurfing at the end of May. Doctors vary in opinion. Some say to immobilize after surgery and others say to PT soon after. Recovery for me was fast overall but in fits and stops as far as ROM was concerned.

    So YMMV, you might as well do some resort skiing to hone up your skills, and go full BC next year.

  13. #13
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    Seeing J Belzer in SF and then B Zwahlen in Berkeley on Jan 3 for 2nd and 3rd opinions. Gonna ask them for physical workups before I show them the Xray and MRI dicoms!

    Anyone have good recommendations for questions I should be asking?
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  14. #14
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    my shoulder pops out a bunch.

    shoveling does not scare me at all.

    climb more 5.easy handcracks.

    stop skiing with those goddamn pole plants and stick to knuckledraggin.

    your turns will actually get really strong because you can't let yourself lose balance in the same way.

    Though, I have cartwheel (a bunch) and just lock the arm in tight when you begin to go over.

    If you don't get it fixed, it will come out again. But that might be okay.

  15. #15
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    I'm not a shoulder expert. But - its a big assumption to say that everyone who doesn't get surgery becomes a chronic dislocator. I don't know what the time period is, but I think that if he can go for a year without dislocating again odds are good he'll not have future dislocation problems.

    Until a few years ago if you opted out of surgery they would try to get you out of your sling ASAP so that you kept full ROM. I think that some doctors are having really good results by keeping the arm in a sling for a longer time. The downside is you do lose ROM over the short term and have to do more rehab work, the upside is greatly reduced incidence of repeat dislocations since everything has a chance to heal super tight.

    I don't understand the surgery exactly. Basically you tore the hell our of just about everything in your shoulder... ligaments, tendons, muscles, bones, and the labrum. So everything in there is messed up and hurting. Everything.

    They're just going to screw down and sew up the labrum, right? Why is that the focus and how would that help? The labrum is a relatively soft gooshy bit, the real thing holding the shoulder in is all the ligaments. To me its like you have a door that keeps opening so you nail a rubber doorstop to the floor to keep it closed- but the problem is the hinges are missing so its going to crash down anyway.

  16. #16
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    dude, just rock out on the footwork climbing, lots of slabwork/etc.
    Touring situation - easy, you just guinea pig every line
    As far as pole plants, you're pressuring them too much if there's much shoulder in it.
    Besides, who's going to stock the fridge with IPA at the ski house?

  17. #17
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    don't worry too much

    SchralphMacchio,
    Don't worry too much about how you'll be after recovery. If you just did it 2 weeks ago (4 weeks now I guess), you're still early on in recovery. I've had a problem with mine since high school, and when I first popped it out, it stayed out for hours until I got to hospital and someone reduced it. If you got yours back in right away, the ligament damage will be much reduced than mine was.
    When my shoulder comes out, it goes forward and goes under the joint, and stays there (on my dominant arm too)

    A few things have changed in my life after the 5th or 6th time it popped out.
    - I stopped playing rugby
    - After repetitive dislocations (well into double digits + 1 surgery), I can no longer throw a ball overhand (an indentation on the humeral head acts as a lever to pull my shoulder out)
    - I stopped downhill mountain biking and switched to XC
    - I started doing a lot more yoga (balanced strength)
    - I reduced how aggressive I was on skis in places like... the terrain park.
    - I STARTED touring (and then tele'ing after that) and I've never been concerned about not being able to shovel. Shovelling is a really stable position for a shoulder. Hand over-head or some other awkward position is unstable.

    The last time I popped my shoulder out, I was skiing the N face of Shuksan right under the "icy death" section near the top. I had Andy holding my backpack (to keep my shoulder back), and Casey pulling hard on my arm to reduce it, it took a long time, and a lot of yelling, but we got it back in.
    I learnt from that one. I did a few stupid things. I was not in shape at the time to go and do a day that big. I over worked my shoulder on the way up and when my slough caught up to me and knocked me over, it didn't take much to pop it out. Since then, I've made sure to do a lot of exercises to keep strength in my shoulders for that kind of all day raised arm ice axe slogging.

    As far as belaying goes, you'll be fine. But you should go out and learn what positions you can and can't put your arm in for climbing hard stuff. Generally I know I can't reach back, or over head too much, but I can almost always find a different position to be in that is stable so I can make it past a certain move.
    Take it easy though, and don't go to hard at recovery until it feels comfortable.

    I wish you the best in your recovery. I'm halfway through recovering from ACL reconstruction after an ACL & MCL injury playing hockey, and I'm convinced I'm going to come back stronger & smarter.

    ps. although not Dr. recommended, I have skied just 3 weeks after a dislocation by putting my arm in a sling, inside my jacket. That's actually when I first tried tele'ing too.

  18. #18
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    don't stress it

    SchralphMacchio,
    Don't worry too much about how you'll be after recovery. If you just did it 2 weeks ago (4 weeks now I guess), you're still early on in recovery. I've had a problem with mine since high school, and when I first popped it out, it stayed out for hours until I got to hospital and someone reduced it. If you got yours back in right away, the ligament damage will be much reduced than mine was.
    When my shoulder comes out, it goes forward and goes under the joint, and stays there (on my dominant arm too)

    A few things have changed in my life after the 5th or 6th time it popped out.
    - I stopped playing rugby
    - After repetitive serious dislocations (well into double digits + 1 surgery), I can no longer throw a ball overhand (an indentation on the humeral head acts as a lever to pull my shoulder out)
    - I stopped downhill mountain biking and switched to XC
    - I started doing a lot more yoga (balanced strength)
    - I reduced how aggressive I was on skis in places like... the terrain park.
    - I STARTED touring (and then tele'ing after that) and I've never been concerned about not being able to shovel. Shovelling is a really stable position for a shoulder. Hand over-head or some other awkward position is unstable.

    The last time I popped my shoulder out, I was skiing the N face of Shuksan right under the icy / rocky section near the top. I had Andy holding my backpack (to keep my shoulder back), and Casey pulling hard on my arm to reduce it, it took a long time, and a lot of yelling, but we got it back in.
    I learnt from that one. I did a few stupid things. I was not in shape at the time to go and do a day that big. I over worked my shoulder on the way up and when my slough caught up to me and knocked me over, it didn't take much to pop it out. Since then, I've made sure to do a lot of exercises to keep strength in my shoulders for that kind of all day raised arm ice axe slogging.

    As far as belaying goes, you'll be fine. But you should go out and learn what positions you can and can't put your arm in for climbing hard stuff. Generally I know I can't reach back, or over head too much, but I can almost always find a different position to be in that is stable so I can make it past a certain move.
    Take it easy though, and don't go to hard at recovery until it feels comfortable.

    I wish you the best in your recovery. I'm halfway through recovering from ACL reconstruction after an ACL & MCL injury playing hockey, and I'm convinced I'm going to come back stronger & smarter.

    ps. although not Dr. recommended, I have skied just 3 weeks after a dislocation by putting my arm in a sling, inside my jacket. That's actually when I first tried tele'ing too. Still have to be careful though...

  19. #19
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    Good luck Schralph. Sounds like I'm in a similar situation now.
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  20. #20
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    As for the question about moving all that snow to save your friend... Adreniline will mask all of the pain your brain knows is in your shoulder. If you don't get that major rush when the shit hits the fan in the b/c, then you are emotionless or the most calm person on the planet.

    As far as surgery... I'd do the rehab, give it 6-9 months to heal more, and then see what it feels like. Shoulders are complicated. I swear I tore something in my shoulder this summer when I crashed a dirtbike at 35mph. After the x-rays and MRI, Dr. told me I had partially seperated it and am now dealing with bursitis. That was in August and it is still painful to the point that pushups aren't on the agenda for any workout. Surgery is always your last option, unless you are getting paid to use that shoulder (baseball pro, carpenter, fireman, etc.).

    just my .02
    "That's what she said."

  21. #21
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    Rockboy, thanks for the feedback. One of my other concerns is losing 2 years instead of 1? I'd rather take care of this and stay in the game while I'm young and single (I'm 32). I can't imagine getting after 4000 ft. couloirs deep in the wilderness will work the same way for me when (and if, I guess!) I've got a wife and kids, and I've still got some goals to accomplish ...

    Getting my second opinion today and a real question is going to be "why not do it" and "what are the things that can happen if I do/don't."
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Whipper View Post

    I wanted to marry the female doctor right infront of my wife.. She was hot!! Might have been the morphine? LOL !
    It was just the dope my ski buddy gets that from female AND male patients and bro is a 58 yr old anesthesiologist

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,666
    personally i would try to keep clmbig and limit overhangs or other crazy reaching full weight moves on that arm. When i was climbing a lot, my shoulders were strong, but got progressively worse when i stopped.

    i had a pretty huge labral tear myself. am glad i went through with the surgery. i was back kayaking by like 4-5 months i want to say. i had a pretty large thread in here if you want exacts

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    1,424
    What's the word Schralph?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Eugenio Oregón
    Posts
    7,139
    Belzer didn't want to cut after the first dislocation. He said at my age and with this injury my chance of a repeat is 20%, while I would only need 6 weeks to rehab before starting to ramp up contact sports. What was reassuring was seeing a huge signed poster of snowboarder Lance Cyr ripping it up in the BC with a letter to the doc. Belzer was talking to me about skiing vs. boarding, toeside turns, good stuff. He gets it really well, so thanks for the recommend man! He gave me a good order of return to activities (XC skiing, road biking, snowboarding, skiing, and I bet I have to think a while about climbing).

    Zwahlen had jury duty though and had to reschedule, so I'm seeing another doc from that same clinic (Bob Eppley's practice) named Rolnik on Monday to get a third opinion.

    As of this point, I'm leaning back toward Belzer's advice, based on his level of understanding. I think my first doc was just old-school and overreacting to all my "extreme sports" activities and he didn't want my arm dislocating on a deep tour or multipitch climb.

    Of course, given the consequences, if I rehab I think I'm going to have to wait until I *really* trust my arm to climb outdoors trad again.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

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