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  1. #9401
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    101
    D.a.m.n.

    Looking closer, things get possibly a little more interesting?1

    Check out the skier's exit track from the Avy a (presumably the initial slide). Uphill hand traverse, presumably looking upslope going 'double f@#$!, ehhh, whew'...but then airs off a crown into the path of Avy b! Note the track across the bed surface of Avy b, indicating that this slide had already occurred by the time the skier went across.
    Name:  saddlepeak-01.jpg
Views: 688
Size:  1.48 MB


    This provides at least two possibilities: 1) Perhaps Avy b had already went (could have been triggered near the ??? above from the other skier). 2) This was part of Avy a as the fracture propagated across (and up) the slope. The velocity that slabs travel once up to speed seems generally consistent with fracture and the time it would take for the skier to make their exit, cut left, and ski over the bed.

    An armchair interpretation: The acuteness, or 'deepness' (for lack of a better word) of the crown forming the 'V' between the two slides seems like an odd geometry for fracture propagation across a slope (#wayoutsidemylane), so it makes me think that Avy b occurred first. But I'm sure weird things occur in such complex snowpacks and terrain situations, so that could be a total BS interpretation. If it was the same slide, it seems crazy that the now unsupported hangfire could still be essentially ski cut and not fail. Ski cut either way, in fact! Cursed deep slab and its myriad complexities. Anyways, this made me go hmmm. so thought I'd share for the fun of wondering how it all went down.

    Also noted is the small step down-looking feature below the first set of trees in the path of Avy a. In geosciences we can often get away with sketchy interpretations by simply adding a question mark.

    Be safe out there and have fun!

    -A maritime snow enthusiast


    1Disclaimer: A lot of windblown pow was skied today and I may now be under the influence.

  2. #9402
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    5,047
    Quote Originally Posted by swimmy View Post


    Almost as alarming as the Argentina slab is the centerpunch track from the north peak... man is there some shit above, with a bad ride below.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  3. #9403
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by 2_1_3 View Post
    so it makes me think that Avy b occurred first.
    Correct.

    From email sent into the Avalanche Center:

    "Skiers triggered two separate slides on south Saddle this afternoon. we witnessed the smaller slide to the lookers right of the big slide, the bigger one happened later apparently... The first smaller slide was caused by a ski cut near the trees, fracture was about 2 feet, soft slab that seemed to run on a thin sun crust. below the sun crust was also very weak and sugary. Not sure when the second skier went farther out and triggered the whole bowl, but they got lucky!!"

  4. #9404
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Bozeman
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by swimmy View Post
    There were a ton of tracks on Saddle and the Football Field today. No way you'd catch me up there right now as I don't trust this snowpack.

    Guess this happened after I left. Fortunately no one was hurt.


    Never ceases to amaze me that people will ski such high consequence terrain seemingly regardless of the avalanche hazard.

  5. #9405
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The 8th best place in the LBP
    Posts
    2,995
    Just thankful we're not talking about a burial and body recovery right now. Hopefully the people skiing that terrain in these conditions will get the message and dial it back.

  6. #9406
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BZN
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Hopefully the people skiing that terrain in these conditions will get the message and dial it back.
    In Bozeman? Not a chance. Everyone here is invincible until they're not.

  7. #9407
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    368
    but holy fuck i bet people had some good runs out there...

  8. #9408
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Bozeman
    Posts
    66
    In my head, I just assume the people out on Saddle when it's orange or red are straight up clueless, but then I've seen some people marching out there on those days who really should, and do, know better....some serious human factor stuff at play on Saddle Peak.

    I agree...even a near miss like this won't deter people. I bet there's people tracking up the flanks right now!

  9. #9409
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Gallatin County
    Posts
    745
    Turns out flirting with winter conditions is not limited to the Bridgers. This from KBZK:

    YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK — A little more than a week ago, a Yellowstone National Park Search and Rescue team pulled a man to safety from nearly 900 down in the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. Dave Christensen, 55, of Winamac, Indiana was there illegally.

    Yellowstone National Park officials said the rescue of Christensen was difficult and dangerous. “It took four 600-foot ropes, said Canyon District Ranger Klint Powell who served as the Incident Commander for the rescue. Powell said it was clear Christensen intended to attempt to scale the cliff face all along. Powell said, “He had the gear, had a rope, had an ice axe.”

    Powell used a unique method to get access to the canyon, which is closed to normal vehicles in the winter months. Most people can only access interior parts of the park on a guided snowmobile or slowcoach tour. But some are allowed to get permits for unguided trips into the park so long as they know and follow park rules. Christensen obtained one of those permits.

    He and a friend snowmobiled to Lookout Point where Christensen tried to rappel to the bottom while his friend waited above with a two way radio. But Christensen made a big mistake in planning his adventure. “It was 850 feet down to the river, I think his rope was only 360 feet,” said Powell.

    So Christensen jumped off his rope and scrambled to the river but he couldn’t make it back to the rope. Powell noted, “He had to go through drifts up to five feet high.”

    Weather was also a problem. As is often the case, the canyon was windy and cold and a snow storm was moving in. Christensen radioed his friend asking for help. That’s when a ranger led Search and Rescue crew of eleven from both Canyon and Old Faithful rushed in.

    One expert climber was lowered to the stranded man. “It was a long slow haul,” said Powell. Besides the worsening weather, there were other big obstacles. The volcanic rock in the canyon breaks easily making the cliffs dangerous.

    Powell said, “There’s always potential for avalanche danger as well.” It took 6 hours to complete the rescue.“ There were times where they would fall head first into the drifts while we’re still pulling up,” said Powell. He added, “What makes this place special is its wildness, but it’s got to be respected.”

  10. #9410
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    Turns out flirting with winter conditions is not limited to the Bridgers. This from KBZK:

    YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK — A little more than a week ago, a Yellowstone National Park Search and Rescue team pulled a man to safety from nearly 900 down in the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. Dave Christensen, 55, of Winamac, Indiana was there illegally.

    Yellowstone National Park officials said the rescue of Christensen was difficult and dangerous. “It took four 600-foot ropes, said Canyon District Ranger Klint Powell who served as the Incident Commander for the rescue. Powell said it was clear Christensen intended to attempt to scale the cliff face all along. Powell said, “He had the gear, had a rope, had an ice axe.”

    Powell used a unique method to get access to the canyon, which is closed to normal vehicles in the winter months. Most people can only access interior parts of the park on a guided snowmobile or slowcoach tour. But some are allowed to get permits for unguided trips into the park so long as they know and follow park rules. Christensen obtained one of those permits.

    He and a friend snowmobiled to Lookout Point where Christensen tried to rappel to the bottom while his friend waited above with a two way radio. But Christensen made a big mistake in planning his adventure. “It was 850 feet down to the river, I think his rope was only 360 feet,” said Powell.

    So Christensen jumped off his rope and scrambled to the river but he couldn’t make it back to the rope. Powell noted, “He had to go through drifts up to five feet high.”

    Weather was also a problem. As is often the case, the canyon was windy and cold and a snow storm was moving in. Christensen radioed his friend asking for help. That’s when a ranger led Search and Rescue crew of eleven from both Canyon and Old Faithful rushed in.

    One expert climber was lowered to the stranded man. “It was a long slow haul,” said Powell. Besides the worsening weather, there were other big obstacles. The volcanic rock in the canyon breaks easily making the cliffs dangerous.

    Powell said, “There’s always potential for avalanche danger as well.” It took 6 hours to complete the rescue.“ There were times where they would fall head first into the drifts while we’re still pulling up,” said Powell. He added, “What makes this place special is its wildness, but it’s got to be respected.”

  11. #9411
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BZN
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgge View Post
    In my head, I just assume the people out on Saddle when it's orange or red are straight up clueless, but then I've seen some people marching out there on those days who really should, and do, know better....some serious human factor stuff at play on Saddle Peak.

    I agree...even a near miss like this won't deter people. I bet there's people tracking up the flanks right now!
    Reminds me of this from last year: https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=706&accfm=inv

    Entirely preventable and predictable but people manage to tell themselves stories that trump even the most obvious red flags.

    I think "Bozeman Considerable" should be right up there with "Teton Considerable."

  12. #9412
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The 8th best place in the LBP
    Posts
    2,995
    Wind affected meh at the rock this afternoon but a nice couple hours nonetheless.


  13. #9413
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    122
    Check out the size of the crown on this slide today on Henderson. Holy shit.




  14. #9414
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    BS
    Posts
    483
    Good thing I hurt my ribs snowmobiling on the 2nd. Makes it real easy to keep out of avy terrain.

  15. #9415
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
    Posts
    9,947
    6am driveway report: Snowing. Currently about an inch but coming down hard. Temp +24F.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  16. #9416
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,829
    Quote Originally Posted by idahospud View Post
    Reminds me of this from last year: https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/a...=706&accfm=inv

    Entirely preventable and predictable but people manage to tell themselves stories that trump even the most obvious red flags.

    I think "Bozeman Considerable" should be right up there with "Teton Considerable."
    Tread lightly on that incident. Pete knew what he was risking, he felt it was worth it. Same thing for Tony the year before.

    Main takeaways are solo means fatal if you fuck up and most people believe that they can manage risk a lot better than they actually can.
    Ooof!

  17. #9417
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Where the center is on the right
    Posts
    684
    Quote Originally Posted by idahospud View Post
    In Bozeman? Not a chance. Everyone here is invincible until they're not.
    What does this mean and who specifically are you talking about?
    "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough."

  18. #9418
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Bozone
    Posts
    1,045
    BB is garbage this am, BS is definitely the call.

  19. #9419
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
    Posts
    9,947
    8am update: 6 inches now, currently nuking.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  20. #9420
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    8am update: 6 inches now, currently nuking.
    Welp, that's all I needed. Heading out now.

    Anyone want to meet up?

  21. #9421
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    BZN
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by nest View Post
    What does this mean and who specifically are you talking about?
    I wasn't referencing anyone in particular in that post, moreso the risk culture here. The tracks down the face of Saddle are a great example of what I mean. The wind was whipping that morning and snow transport was plainly visible. The bar for risk management here for many people (again: no one in particular, but ski tracks show that these people exist) is set in such a way that the desire to ski consequential terrain outweighs anything else.

    I like skiing big lines but doing it in the middle of the winter, particularly this winter, isn't my thing. Maybe I'm hyper risk-averse or just a wimp?

  22. #9422
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    12,472
    I'm about to get on a plane to the Dirty. You are welcome for the snow!

  23. #9423
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
    Posts
    9,947
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    6am driveway report: Snowing. Currently about an inch but coming down hard. Temp +24F.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    8am update: 6 inches now, currently nuking.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    11am: still nuking


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  24. #9424
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Making the Bowl Great Again
    Posts
    12,068
    Stupid question: Has anything been open off the tram other than Liberty Bowl at all this year?

  25. #9425
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Gallatin County
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Stupid question: Has anything been open off the tram other than Liberty Bowl at all this year?
    The Big Couloir was open for a time.

    No tram laps today, but great skiing the fresh snow at Big Sky. The breeze provided refills in spots. Connected with swimmy to make some powder turns. Lots of fresh even on my last run.

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