2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[CountryFunk]

Weather has been pretty much DIY for me, maybe Not Bunion knows of a guru? Please don't distract him from writing the soap opera that is Big Sky Resort history though. If I was you I'd backtrack to Ainsworth for a soak and lunch on the day you fly out and then head north to Revy. PM sent with a bunch of relevant bookmarks.

[toast2266]

For short term forecast I like to use NOAA point forecast. Any weather guru's for Montana worth listening to beyond knowing how to look at NOAA's generated data sets?

NOAA point forecast works decently in NW Montana - I think that area is a bit more predictable. If you're thinking of heading just over the border, Fernie is a fun hill. The base is low though, so watch out for warm storms.

Also, X2 on Turner. It's open Thurs - Sun, and would break up the drive to Nelson nicely. Being closed Mon - Wed means Thursdays can be deep if it's been snowing. Again, it's fairly low, so maybe skip it if it's warm.

[Bunion 2020]

Thanks all for the responses. Not too worried about the driving, but just wanted to check if there are roads that do close. It is a long drive from Discovery to Kaslo, but if I do 5 hours after skiing with a couple breaks the following day shouldn't be so bad. Revy is definitely on the list for after hut. I have been to KH a couple times, but not Revy and I like the town better. None of the other Alberta areas are likely to be hit unless a storm and my driving on the return line up.

Likely will lock in driving options a week or so out (who has the base to make it worth while) Real flexible as Red Lodge is the only place I have tickets and rest are not too bad walk up rates. Cutting Red down to 1 day is easy and the plan is to be flexible so pretty much all the mountains are in play if that is the right play. I have found storm chasing by car to be kind of a green light/red light thing.

For short term forecast I like to use NOAA point forecast. Any weather guru's for Montana worth listening to beyond knowing how to look at NOAA's generated data sets?

Local Avi Forecast Center has decent short term forecasts, https://www.mtavalanche.com/

for DIY precip forecasts this is a good one, https://atmos.washington.edu/mm5rt/r...45.79N,111.15W

It is specifically for the Bozeman area and works well for BB.

I live near Bozeman Hot Springs and avoid it, the place is filthy and full of funk.

[muted]

They drain the pools every night though, how dirty can they get?

I will admit I've rarely found people that like the hot springs as much as me that don't have kids. It's just the hot/cold pool combo is so unique these days, and the whole point of going to hot springs is the back-and-forth between hot/cold pools. Otherwise you just drove a long way for a hot tub. (And the wet steam room there is rad too.)

[Bunion 2020]

They drain the pools every night though, how dirty can they get?

You sure about that? They get somewhat drained on most nights.

From Bzn Craigslist

Re: Bozeman Hot Springs
Yeah, can agree with all this. Used to work there.

Wages are a joke. The "free" membership they offer comes out of your paycheck and "cleaning" doesn't even really happen. It's like a light scrub of the pools.

Some of the staff are super rude (management especially) or just don't care at all. People are only seen as $$$ and it sucks.

Believe me, the place is grosser than most of you guys realize. And definitely don't go swimming on Saturday. Pools don't get cleaned at all the night before.

I will admit I've rarely found people that like the hot springs as much as me that don't have kids. It's just the hot/cold pool combo is so unique these days, and the whole point of going to hot springs is the back-and-forth between hot/cold pools. Otherwise you just drove a long way for a hot tub. (And the wet steam room there is rad too.)

I know too many people who have gone there and gotten sick shortly after. Myself included.

Too each their own.

[muted]

damn it, i didn't need to know that. A long time ago they definitely drained the pools overnight, or claimed to.

[Talisman]

A nice article on a Big Sky icon Queen Jean: http://www.lonepeaklookout.com/news/long-live-queen

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Sorry......


Jean is a one of a kind like so many long time locals. My 1st PO box was 585 in 1992, then they added a bunch more and it became 160585 until I moved to town in 06.

99 was one of the last Dirtbag Balls I attended and there was lots of shouting and lobbying to get Jean her crown. It was well deserved.

[Lexi-Bell]

As Lexi-Bell famously said here; "The last person here wants to build the biggest fence." I've found that to be true in Bozeman, here in Portland and nearly anywhere else experiencing growth. Hell, I made my way to Bozeman in '98 and you think it's changed in the last five years? In '99, Costco was the only thing at the end of 19th and not much between it and Main. Good times...

We all come from somewhere.

Enjoy it while you're there, grumps or not. It's a rad place, even with all the growth. I miss it. Badly.

Not my line, stole it but can't remember where. Hope Portland is treating you well! Nice thread BTW.

Beers sound good, can't swing it tomorrow, enjoy.

Do yer snow-dance motherfuckers!

[WMD]

As Lexi-Bell famously said here; "The last person here wants to build the biggest fence." I've found that to be true in Bozeman, here in Portland and nearly anywhere else experiencing growth. Hell, I made my way to Bozeman in '98 and you think it's changed in the last five years? In '99, Costco was the only thing at the end of 19th and not much between it and Main. Good times...

We all come from somewhere.

Enjoy it while you're there, grumps or not. It's a rad place, even with all the growth. I miss it. Badly.

I was here before Costco or the 19th Ave freeway access ... and yes it has grown a lot. But the pace of growth has really accelerated in the past 3-5 years. This is no Ionger a small sleepy town. Not trying to start a dick wagging contest of who's been here the longest (it's definitely not me). Just commenting on the pace and scale of change and how that has really accelerated lately. Many old time locals are grumpy about the change as the character of the place has changed recently. It sucks when they are mast about it though.

It's still a good place even if it is not the same as it was 25, or even 3, years ago. A lot of friends who've been here for a while talk about this and wonder where to go now. Not because it sucks but because they liked living in a sleepy college town with uncrowded recreation opportunities nearby.

Re: weather forecasts. Like Bunion I recommend the avalanche center's daily report and forecast.

[lifelinksplit]

Agreed on Bozeman hot springs being a glorified swimming pool(although they made it look nice now!). Much prefer norris or chico(or Jackson elkhorn etc) and think Fairmont is meh. Finally working fridays or I'd meet for beers.

Also once we get a bit more settled I'll prob have an option for mags to crash if ya need a place when skiing disco.

[RTR]

Reminder that I'll be at The Pour House around 5:15-5:30 today if anyone is keen to meet up. Look for a handsome bald fella. It's looking like it'll be low-key, but if I meet just one of you virtual avatars and turn you into a human being with a pulse in my mind, it'll be a success. Cheers!

[SUPERIOR]

Wish I could meet with y’all... down in Escalante for the next few days


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[idahospud]

I’ll be coming down for a beer this evening, probably there by 5:30. I’m very distinctly not bald and alarmingly handsome. Half of that statement is a lie, though.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[river59]

Hey montanans,

My local mountain (mt hood meadows) just announced a pass exchange program with Whitefish. I have never skied whitefish and was hoping to get some beta from you fine folks.

Firstly, is it worth a visit (8-9 hr drive)? When would be a good time to make the trip? I am looking at a winter of unemployment so my schedule is wide open, but my funds are limited. Which brings me to dirtbaging prospects...is blatant station waggon camping doable in the vicinity? Ideal setup would be a basecamp for easy access to resort and touring options. Would a stealthy snowcave or tent setup be a better idea?

Thanks for the help!

[toast2266]

Hey montanans,

My local mountain (mt hood meadows) just announced a pass exchange program with Whitefish. I have never skied whitefish and was hoping to get some beta from you fine folks.

Firstly, is it worth a visit (8-9 hr drive)? When would be a good time to make the trip? I am looking at a winter of unemployment so my schedule is wide open, but my funds are limited. Which brings me to dirtbaging prospects...is blatant station waggon camping doable in the vicinity? Ideal setup would be a basecamp for easy access to resort and touring options. Would a stealthy snowcave or tent setup be a better idea?

Thanks for the help!

Whitefish is a semi-mellow hill. Not a lot of gnar, but some fun stuff to poke around in. Lots of tree skiing, which is good because it's foggy a lot.

The hill also has lots of easy sidecountry. Again, not super rowdy terrain, but it's easy access and usually has good snow unless we've had a big warm up (which happens once or twice a season). Bigger backcountry options are 45-60 minutes from the resort, mostly in and around Glacier National Park.

Camping is allowed in one of the lots up at the hill. Max stay is three days. Not sure how rigidly they enforce that. http://skiwhitefish.com/parking/
if you were a bit flexible about it and worked the "show up late, leave early" program, there are a few trailheads where you could probably get away with sleeping.

Best time to come is obviously when it's snowing. Long term forecasts look uninspiring (as they do for everywhere in the PNW), but if I had to guess, I'd probably put my money on early January or early / mid March.

[Bunion 2020]

The power of reason, the top of the heap
we’re the ones who can kill the things we
Don't eat
Sharper than a serpent's tongue
Tighter than a bongo drum
Quicker than a one-night stand
Slicker than a mambo band
And now the day is come
Soon he will be released
Glory hallelujah!
We're building the perfect beast
(building, building, etc..)

Creating a ski patrol from scratch is a lot like making stew. It takes a bunch of different ingredients, some of them may have been in the fridge past their expiration date but still add a needed flavor. You may have to make a trip to the pantry to grab a few odds and ends that may not exactly fit but actually turn out to be a good idea in the end.
I had been patrolling for 19 years and had always shot my big mouth off about how I would do it if it was my decision. John had been patrolling at least 15 years and had been a Hotshot and a Squad Boss fighting Wildland fire. He and I had worked at Big Sky together both before and after the tram and he had left Big Sky a year or so after the accident to help develop the Yellowstone Club terrain and then left the business altogether to move dirt fulltime. When I got the axe at Big Sky he was who they brought in and to the Snow Safety Dept. to fill my spot. He later apologized for that, I should have apologized to him. That didn’t sound like a happy year.

It was not hard to find candidates, by the time we ran the advertisement that Moonlight was hiring we already had a pretty good bunch of prospects to choose from. Most were known quantities and either John or I had patrolled with several of them.

The Moonlight Basin Class of 02/03

(Silent H) was one of the first to commit. He had been at Big Sky for several years and was a pretty good A/C worker and one of the most talented Telemark Skiers I have been around, any terrain and any conditions kind of good. More importantly, a resting pulse in the 50s and the ability to hike.

(Ike) was a new guy who came to work for us during the summer on the Trail Crew and was keen. He claimed skiing ability and had a good attitude. He was also a Mormon with a lazy eye that wandered when you were talking to him. I wasn’t so sure about him but he wasn’t my choice he was Johns and I figured we would need some new blood and could probably make it work. Besides, he was inexpensive.

KaK came over from Big Sky as well, she had patrolled there for several years, was solid and we needed at least one woman to cover the inevitable time when a young female skier is injured and needs an assessment. Having women on a patrol tends to make it a much more enjoyable experience. Mainly because it dulls the Testosterone and tends to encourage more teamwork.

Blockhead came over from Big Sky as well, he had never patrolled but his father and brother had been long time patrollers at Gore Mountain. He was a stocky and very strong guy who was a talented skier and wanted to get out to the ski repair shop and learn about avalanches.

Rat came from Big Sky as a member of their volunteer staff. He was a young guy (22) who came off a little spacey and dull witted, it turned out to be a clever act.

Rich came from Discovery Basin and was a calm, quiet and hardworking guy who worked alongside Isaac on the summer crew. He was a talented logger and came in real handy on summer construction projects.

We picked up Brouny from the Big Sky volunteer staff, tall, strong, extremely fit and a bit of an unknown. Several years before he had been involved in an avalanche fatality at Big Sky. A group of employees ignored a patrollers halfhearted instructions to stop hiking up to the upper mountain when it was closed. They entered the area above the top of what is now the 6 Pack and triggered an avalanche that carried and buried one member in a terrain trap 5-6’ deep. In spite of a quick reaction and rescue by the group, he didn’t survive. Brouny was a Bellman for Big Sky then (a coveted position) and during the fallout from the event I recommended that he be terminated from his job for failing to follow verbal instructions. I could be an asshole at times.

The Sheriff came to us from A-basin. He and his significant other had recently moved to Bozeman, he had worked at A-basin for around 10 years and applied on the spur of the moment, right place at the right time kind of thing. I had some pretty good contacts there so I called them and they gave good reports but also warned that he hadn’t done a lot of A/C. When we met I thought I had stepped into a time warp, he was about 4 years older than me and was a typical Colorado ski patroller right down to the Levis jacket, Ray-bans, mustache and semi-mullet.

That gave us our staff of 10. For the 1st year we had to cover the 6-Shooter/Derringer area and the west Boundary was Meriwether. Everything to the west of that trail was still being leased by MBA (Montana Backcountry Adventures) which was a ½ assed snow cat skiing operation. As we entered the start of the season it was unclear who would patrol Iron Horse and Pony Express. With a lawsuit between Moonlight and Big Sky heating up we built a 2nd base area at the bottom of Pony Express complete with a small day lodge and F&B operation and laid claim to that territory, Big Sky also announced that they still had a lease for the lifts and terrain and would operate it. The compromise was that Big Sky would staff and maintain the lifts and lift passes for employees and guests of either mountain would be honored at those chairs. We were also sort of responsible for the trail system that meanders through the developing housing of Moonlight Basin, ski in ski out you know.

The first glitch came in early October, Rich approached John and I to talk. Turns out he had just been offered the Patrol Directors job at Discovery, still had strong ties to the area and wanted to know what to do. As we talked it became clear that the only real course of action was for him to take the job. Rich remained at Disco for several years and by all accounts did a fine job. Now we had a hole in our schedule to fill. Enter Merik.

[Bunion 2020]

M3, Merik Michael Morgan was born in Los Alamos NM as a child of the AEC and the Manhattan Project. His father was a well-respected and some say brilliant Nuclear Physicist who developed Nuclear Weapons to protect the free world from nasty commies. Merik’s brother and sister both went on to lead respected lives doing what most people born into the 50s did, Merik chose another path. His father relieved stress by working as a volunteer patroller at Pajarito ski area which was at least partially built to keep the Nuclear Scientists at Los Alamos entertained. Merik started patrolling at Pajarito at 15 as a junior patroller and then when it came time to attend college he gave it a shot and it didn’t take he was certainly smart enough but chaotic.

When I first met him it was at the 1994 ISSW at Banff. I had seen him around a few times but didn’t know him. 3 of us from the Big Sky patrol (The Duck, Yunce and me) had driven up from Big Sky in a Toyota Celica and it was a tight fit. Somehow he needed a ride back to Bozeman and even more somehow I found myself squeezed into the back of that Celica with Merik. He ran about 6’3” and a good 240 lbs. and was kind of loud and really like to talk. It was a long drive back to Bozeman and when he got out all I could think of was how nice it was to be able to breathe again. He was working at Bridger Bowl at that time and gradually rose to be one of their snow safety folks. This was during the Closed Boundaries days at BB.

Merik, being a free thinker and an iconoclast of the first order had some issues with the folks who attempted to manage him and even more so the Closed Boundary policy at BB. I still have never gotten the entire story but I have gotten different versions from people involved. Here is one version.
One pretty nice day he allegedly ingested a double fistful of Boomers and proceeded to violate the Closed Boundary policy. The thing is, most of the patrol didn’t give a shit or enforce that policy. What caused the problem is that once done with his civil disobedience he went to his bosses and kind of grabbed them by the neck and rubbed it in their faces, he was not the kind to put dog-shit under door handles. He was shown the door.

From there in no particular order he worked as the Patrol Director at Discovery until he got crosswise with Peter (the owner) and was fired. Worked at Crystal until he got crosswise with the Patrol Director and was fired, he and I had things in common. He was at loose ends in 2002 when a guy I respect from Bridger Bowl (thanks Schmoe) called and pitched the idea of giving Merik a chance to play Lone Mountain. I wasn’t involved in the initial approach but John thought enough of me to ask my opinion which triggered a phone call.

I was working on the Avalauncher mount in Mid-October and looked down to see a large, white haired yeti walking up the newly built access road. As the yeti got closer I realized it was Merik so we shot the shit for a long while and he queried me about what we had for a Control Plan. As we talked he offered some mild suggestions but mostly just kept in full blown rave mode about the Headwaters terrain, he was beyond excited to crawl around up there. After the spirited discussion had exhausted itself we went in search of John and it would be his final decision.

John had always liked Merik but I could tell he was hesitant as was I. Considering Merik’s experience and our staffs general lack of experience we figured what the hell if it doesn’t work out we can always go short one patroller. The die was cast and we hired him.

Most managers will tell you they spend 80% of their time dealing with 10% of their employees, Merik was my 50 % of my 10%. He could be brilliant and dumb as a rock all at the same time. He liked the occasional beer and so he and I drank together on occasion and he loved to talk about snow and avalanches to anyone who would listen. I am a quiet drinker, Merik would get a few in him and begin regaling whoever would listen to theories and tales and ideas and before you knew it he would be waving his arms and speaking far too loud and then the bartender would reel him back in. I must has seen that 3 dozen times. We carpooled some summers and winters for maybe 7 years.

Our 1st year we had a small single wide trailer for a locker room, 40’x12’ that was also our 1st aid room complete with an exam table and a single hospital bed. With only 10 of us we had ample room. I was so busy with what was going on that I had failed to notice that more and more of Merik’s personal stuff was slowing moving into the trailer. One morning I got their early and Merik was still in his bathrobe bumbling around the trailer and making coffee. He got dressed, sat through the morning meeting and as we were about to head out the door announced it was his day off and he was going back to bed. Yeah, he had moved in. He was evicted that day and asked to find other lodging.

On Thanksgiving Day Big Sky opened for skiing and we remained closed. Our non-existent snowmaking system didn’t allow for much in the way of preseason base so we were relying on Mother Nature and she was a little bitchy that winter. It really didn’t matter, we weren’t ready and if we had the snow we would have fallen flat on our asses.
Getting a ski area ready to open requires a lot of labor and sometimes the application of brute force and numbers. That only works if you have a bunch of leaders who have done this before.

The 2002 preseason is still a blur, I know I was there but we were working so many hours to get ready I lost track. 6-Shooter was load tested and called good to go in late November and we were in our training cycle of Medical Refresher and on hill training, (explosives, Tech Rescue/Lift Evac). As we came out of training I felt pretty good about everyone, it was a small group, everyone meshed and was getting to know each other and it was snowing some.

It must have been around one week before our opening that we had our 1st shot at Headwaters avalanche control, we started after lunch and all the fiddling around and delays had us starting late. The idea was to start putting in the boot pack and getting a route established and getting started breaking up the coverage. We would 1st need to do explosives testing and it was a good chance to do explosives training as well. A small group of us John, Silent H, Kak, Blockhead, someone else and myself. We sorted out a plan before heading up the hike and worked our way up through the timber. The Cat Road hadn’t been groomed (good thing) and things looked fat above us.

We reached the shoulder above the top of 6-Shooter (Asteroid Rock). Shelly asked about moving out on the flat area that is now the top entrance of Asteroid Rock to have a peek, after 2 steps the whole face collapsed 30’ below us and slid out taking the snow cover down to nearly the ground. The debris run-out didn’t come too close to the top of the lift so there was that to be happy about. The area is an obvious avalanche path and I had ski cut on it in the past and skied over and by it probably 500-1000 times and had never seen it do anything close to that.

After that performance we played it cagey and stuck to the far lookers left side of the bowl and stayed on the flat slippery plates of scree cover so common to Lone Mountain covered with 6-8” of crappy snow. The hiking on scree sucked and was slow going, we gradually learned over time that you have to establish the same route over and over and to clear the scree away and create more solid footing. It was very hard on boots and soles eventually we resorted to hand tools.

We reached the top of the snow line about ¾ of the way up the Bowl. There were accumulated pockets of deep enough snow across the bowl and areas completely devoid of snow. We ran through some explosives instruction and then John and I partnered up and shot the standard areas we were both used to controlling when we had been working at Big Sky. He tossed a shot into the far skiers left side of the bowl where it is steepest and tends to collect snow and released that pocket to the ground.

We then had KaK and Silent H join us and split the teams to cover more area with less exposure. Both teams threw another shot without any results, by now the sun was going down. KaK and I stayed on the skier’s right and John and Silent H worked down the left. Silent H was groveling his way down to throw a lower shot when he released most of the rest of the bowl while making a kick turn. By then it was getting dark. We had seen enough for one day so we snuck down the shallow rocky snow to the debris piles and checked them out.

These were not small slides and it was the most activity I had ever seen early season back in Nashville Basin. As we skied down to where we parked the truck the familiar shaped moon that was the Moonlight logo was rising in the east.

No shit, there we were.

[muted]

Merik, being a free thinker and an iconoclast of the first order had some issues with the folks who attempted to manage him and even more so the Closed Boundary policy at BB. I still have never gotten the entire story but I have gotten different versions from people involved. Here is one version.
One pretty nice day he allegedly ingested a double fistful of Boomers and proceeded to violate the Closed Boundary policy. The thing is, most of the patrol didn’t give a shit or enforce that policy. What caused the problem is that once done with his civil disobedience he went to his bosses and kind of grabbed them by the neck and rubbed it in their faces, he was not the kind to put dog-shit under door handles. He was shown the door.

I don't know who it was, but one nice sunny day I hiked up to Hidden and a ski patroller was up there and told me it was closed for grooming. I asked him how it could be closed for grooming but he couldn't really answer me in a logical way. He wrote it on a wipe board at the entrance then took off, maybe going OB? I asked another ski patroller later that day if it really was closed, and the ski patroller was like WTF who said that???? I thought I heard the bugged out Ski-P was on mushrooms weeks later and got fired, but god damn that was a long time ago. Had to be the same guy and day, right?

I changed the sign to "Closed for Gro Ming" before I dropped in, like it was closed specially for someone from China named Gro Ming. I thought that was hilarious for some reason at the time.

I rarely skied Moonlight unfortunately, always was a cool place when it opened.

[RTR]

Enjoyed getting to know idahospud, nest, concrete jungle, and Ms. concrete jungle, last night... Bunion, you should have shown up so you could have told us the story in person!

Looking forward to meeting more of you and hopefully sharing some turns or trails with y'all. Happy Friday!

[WMD]

Enjoyed getting to know idahospud, nest, concrete jungle, and Ms. concrete jungle, last night... Bunion, you should have shown up so you could have told us the story in person!

Looking forward to meeting more of you and hopefully sharing some turns or trails with y'all. Happy Friday!

I was hoping to meet you guys last night but couldn't get away. Let's try it again another time so others can meet up too

[Harry]

I was hoping to meet you guys last night but couldn't get away. Let's try it again another time so others can meet up too

Next weekend. Party in Big Sky on Saturday, November 10th. Guest of Honor will be none other than Djongo Unchained, visiting maggot, ski bum, BBI attendee, and actual Jackson Hole Air Force member.

I have to work until mid-afternoon, so this is the schedule:
Saturday, November 10th
4 pm: smoke session at my place
5-ish: Scissorbills for burgers & beer
after: back to my place for another smoke out plus ski movies.

Sunday: breakfast at the Corral, time TBA. Followed by ????





Edit to add: floor space available for any Bozeman peeps who are in no shape to drive the canyon Saturday night. Bring a sleeping bag.

[idahospud]

Ditto what RTR said, it was good to meet some local maggots and hear some stories.

Damn, Harry, if it were any other weekend I'd be there. Presumably this is an event that will happen again once snow the snow flies in earnest?

[Djongo Unchained]

Party! Party!

I'm training...

[Bunion 2020]

Rain check.

I will be locked in medical refresher hell at that other ski area up the road a way.

Beers will be drank and friends who I have not seen since April will be greeted, tall tales exchanged etc.