2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[muted]

I'm not asking for anything, just saying what I think will inevitably be implemented due to the current situation. Could be wrong. Maybe they don't give a shit.

it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.

[Bunion 2020]

it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.

I laughed.

Manned penalty box at the start of the hike is inevitable IMO. And they need to require avy gear, and personally vet the people who have no business being out there. Ultimately I think patrol would be saving themselves a lot of time and trouble by just heading off the problem before it starts, and the only way to do that is face to face by scaring the shit out of people when necessary.

And if they do all this... they need to be clear at the ticket window about the fact that some terrain requires avy gear. I heard a guy in the tram line bitching about that the other day, that he couldn't do the Big and nobody had told him about the beacon requirement, no signs at the ticket window, nothing on this lift ticket, etc. Just put up some signs so you don't end up with another "angry guy at Bridger" scenario. I mean seriously, even though that guy was a total jerk, he still had a point. You need to clearly tell people about that requirement up front.

They BSSP definitely gives a shit, no one wants to deal with an avoidable accident.


X2 on the signage or letting people know the deal about required gear.

Last year there was a big push by some members on the patrol to require a backpack as a minimum for the HW hike. They were over ruled.

I am not sold on the idea of requiring Beacon/shovel/probe as a requirement for any of the terrain. My reasoning being that it is used to weed out people when in reality it is Safety Gear for avalanches and sends a weird message and that is for Big Sky and BB. The Cooler and the N. Summit in my opinion should have the same gear requirements, either all or none. Neither is open if they are not pretty damn safe from the possibility of avalanche.

The Big Sky patrol is already busy dealing with all kinds of shit and I have heard that all the depts. at Big Sky are under some pressure to keep OT to a minimum, that is difficult when you consider that a normal day runs from 8-5:30 x 4 days. It doesn't leave much slop for A/C mornings. Again, not to toss shit but this morning at 9:30 they were still doing explosives work on the south face which leads me to believe they didn't come in early. Odd since the entire upper mountain was blown down yesterday or so I was told.

Lone Mountain is a gnarly place to patrol and again in my opinion, the patrol should be exempt from Overtime restrictions within reason. What with the crowds this season there isn't that much time to train and remain current in all the areas that they need to.

As for a manned penalty box at the start of the hike, I used to hang out at the start of the hike on nicer days and basically yell at people, especially snowboarders who were about to hike without a pack, too many dropped snowboards that became unguided missiles. I usually kept a pocket full of P-cord lanyards so that at the very least the boarders could have a hand leash. I think most people underestimate the difficulty of that terrain and over estimate their ability to access it let alone ski it. Last year a couple of guests got pretty messed up.

Anyway, /rant.

[Talisman]

WRG, out of curiosity, were they shouldering their skis or did they have packs to carry the gear?

I was wondering the same thing. Packs aren't a cure all, but having both hands free for poles and skis firmly on a pack help me a lot, but I'm the guy that almost killed Harry on Valentine's day in gnarly trees.

[yeahman]

it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.

Yeah I understood the reference. But in seriousness, the day that got you riled up was a very unusual combination of circumstances (and I agree it was not handled well), whereas this HW hike issue is an ongoing problem, especially this year according to some patrollers.

FWIW I couldn't care less if they closed Chicken Bowl permanently. It's a deathtrap on the best of days. But the whole mountain is a rock field so once you start down the road of marking stuff I can't see where it stops.

[toast2266]

Years ago, a short hike at kicking horse that accesses some rowdy terrain had a hand written sign that said something to the effect of "if you don't have a beacon/ probe/ shovel, fuck off."

Aside from the profanity (which is effective) and requiring avy gear (also effective at weeding out the gape), I think just the fact that it was a hand written sign made a difference. Everywhere you go these days, there's big signs warning of every little danger. Paying close attention to those signs could easily lead to a brutally paranoid existence. The signs are there to limit liability, not warn of an actual, present danger. Hence, pretty much everyone barely gives them a second glance.

But then those people that are conditioned to not worry too much about warning signage go to a place like headwaters, where there is a legitimate danger. And they ignore those signs just like every other warning sign. And they get themselves into trouble.

But that handwritten sign at kicking horse conveys actual danger. It's clearly not written by/ for the lawyers - those signs look more professional. It's written by the guy who doesn't want to deal with pealing your carcass off the rocks you just tomahawked through.

No idea if the sign at kicking horse actually worked to reduce the jerry factor. But it was memorable, whereas I have only a vague recollection of the signature on headwaters, even though I've seen those signs more recently and more often. Which makes me think the kicking horse sign achieved it's goal of making an impression.

[Harry]

I'm the guy that almost killed Harry on Valentine's day in gnarly trees.

You are easily the most dangerous mofo on the mountain. That Wormhole bullshit almost impaired my ability to perform sexy time with my GF on Valentine's Day. I hope one of those speed control chumps pulls your pass this weekend.

[Harry]

No idea if the sign at kicking horse actually worked to reduce the jerry factor.

Lawsuit Launched-Kicking Horse Lost Skiers
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=159330

[toast2266]

Lawsuit Launched-Kicking Horse Lost Skiers
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=159330

I guess sometimes Jerry's gonna Jerry, no matter what the sign says.

[Talisman]

That Wormhole bullshit almost impaired my ability to perform sexy time with my GF on Valentine's Day. I hope one of those speed control chumps pulls your pass this weekend.

The near death experience should have enhanced your Valentine's eve romp! If my pass gets pulled, I'll get one of those Ikon passes the cool kids have these days that are pissing people off. Any way you need me to have a pass to share my extensive smoke shack knowledge with you.

[Harry]

Any way you need me to have a pass to share my extensive smoke shack knowledge with you.

Good point.

[FringeLife]

Gotta keep all you sheep corralled there in Pig Sty, oh my.

[Bunion 2020]

Toast, you and the better 1/2 make it into town?

I have some 1/2 price vouchers if you need.

Gotta keep all you sheep corralled there in Pig Sty, oh my.

Baaaaaaaaaaah

[lifelinksplit]

I think everyone needs to hike the old headwaters boot pack. Especially when the wind has scoured the scree field and you have to stop every 2 steps and not get blown off the mountain.

Signed,

A beater snowboarder.

[toast2266]

Toast, you and the better 1/2 make it into town?

I have some 1/2 price vouchers if you need.

Planning on driving down tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the offer! We're good on tickets though.

Hoping this storm slows down a bit and leaves something for us on Saturday. Although I'm sure the wind will do its thing and skiing will be good.

[Talisman]

I'm sure more fell in Madison county at higher elevations, but ~5 inches fell overnight at 6800 feet and 32*F.

[GoBig1776]

I have to get in on this Headwaters Hike discussion.
Never Mind.
Sorry bout that.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

First hike up headwaters this morning a father and his two 12 year old kids gripped as fuck above firehole. Father must have slipped off the hike and was about 3 feet down. Could have easily kicked a few steps and climbed back up or down climbed 5 feet and skied pow all the way down, but they were waiting for patrol.

This is a problem.

I don’t ski BS so maybe I need someone to spell this out slowly for me - I read your comment and have literally no idea why this is a problem. People get in over their heads all the time. It’s probably happening to dozens of skiers as I type this comment. Who cares?

[idahospud]

I don’t ski BS so maybe I need someone to spell this out slowly for me - I read your comment and have literally no idea why this is a problem. People get in over their heads all the time. It’s probably happening to dozens of skiers as I type this comment. Who cares?

This is the truth and should be doubly so in Montana, of all places. Let natural selection take its course or, at the very least, let people make their own stupid choices and live with the consequences. Personal responsibility and all that jazz.

[toast2266]

As long as they fall off the hike before they get gripped. It's the worst when they get gripped while they're still on the hike and create a traffic jam. People need to step to the side if they're gonna gape. Common courtesy.

[Talisman]

Let natural selection take its course or, at the very least, let people make their own stupid choices and live with the consequences. Personal responsibility and all that jazz.

Wolverines need to eat in the Spring too, I suppose.

[Bunion 2020]

Part of the charm of that terrain is being able to make your own choices and get in over your head. This is America and freedom is important. Who of us can't say they made some bad decisions in the Headwaters and are better skiers because of it?

Ran into your other 1/2 in the tram line and then managed to get a couple of younger guys to go with me an "check" the NSSF. Thanks Neal & Chris.

Excellent skiing. Then the Tram line blew up so I spent some time in the HW as did your ripper of a lady.

Frankly speaking, the signage at the start of the hike is beyond adequate and covers the hazards quite well. If people go through that gate and don't bother to scout the terrain first it is their own damn fault.

I still cannot believe you opted for the couch today (actually given the past week/10 day it makes perfect sense).

[Gobig is the only person I know who has attempted and I believe successfully skied every named line in HW in a day.] But he would never tell anyone about that.

Of course he was a little younger and a lot dumber then.

I think backpacks should be highly recommended, that falls short of requiring them. I do think there should be a sound heckling for anyone who loses gear that then creates a hazard, maybe even so far as to tell them they are done for the day.

Thanks for all the work Loafer and I hope that sore knee works itself out, but I digress.

Spent a good bit of time in HW and then the vis dropped so I lapped back to the Tram. the line was much shorter and it was mostly locals. The wind began to howl and by the time I got down from the gullies they had shut down the tram. Good call, the conditions off the top were beyond miserable, visibility was non-existent and it was blowing in the 40s at least. (edit to add actually 40s to 60s)

[yeahman]

Great Divide was skiing phat today with a foot of fresh. Plenty of untracked into the afternoon.

[3PinGrin]

Great Divide was skiing phat today with a foot of fresh. Plenty of untracked into the afternoon.

Awesome how things have turned around at GD this year. Wanted so bad to blow off work today. Oh well, tomorrow beckons.

[crashidy]

Just rolled into Bozeman. Likely ski big sky tomorrow. Will be taking turns with the wife and 4yo. If anyone wants to show some capable skiers around or point us in the right direction, much appreciated.

Also: where is a good lodge to hang out with the kid when not skiing?

[Talisman]

The wind began to howl and by the time I got down from the gullies they had shut down the tram.

The wind also shut Dakota and Sheddy lifts down. Of course I was in hanging valley when the call through from a buddy the lifts were shutting. By the time I got to Sheddy the evacuation route through the YC was being used. Lots of people of various abilities on the YC cat tracks was a cluster.

Great skiing otherwise, for a day when I didn't almost kill Harry.