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  1. #6951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    I feel fortunate that BS has such a professional patrol for the high angle terrain. With sub-optimal hiking skills, maybe waiting for patrol was the right decision versus all three tomahawking down Fire Hole?
    Or maybe they should have checked out the Headwaters from below before hiking out there. Surely one glance would have been enough to convince them it was not their type of terrain. Or look at the photo on the sign at the start of the hike. Or heck, look at the trail map, it is pretty obviously steep shit. But no, all those simple precautions would have made waaay too much sense.

  2. #6952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Well that might have solved the problem.

    Not going to talk shit cause there are certainly some very qualified Patrollers at Big Sky but in all honesty, results may vary.


    I haven't been up the hike recently but aren't there a bunch of signs warning of dragons and man eating tigers and the near certainty of death should you fuck up?

    WRG, out of curiosity, were they shouldering their skis or did they have packs to carry the gear?
    There is all kinds of new signage, but I think a whiteboard like they use at the tram would be more effective. Should say, "This hike is sketchy as fuck!" It was slippy today with AT boots. Alpine boots would have been really scary.

    Yes, they were shouldering their skis. Looked like short narrow rental gear from LMS. Not people who should have been anywhere near that hike/terrain.

  3. #6953
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    Beacons/gear mandatory has got to happen. 90% of people don't travel to new mountains without gear. The 10% that do are competent skiers generally and have some experience in sketch terrain.

  4. #6954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    There is all kinds of new signage, but I think a whiteboard like they use at the tram would be more effective. Should say, "This hike is sketchy as fuck!" It was slippy today with AT boots. Alpine boots would have been really scary.
    Hey now mister, I built that hike. It was a labor of love and yes, it is sketchy as fuck, that was part of the idea. Before Merik, Micah and I did all the work it was really REALLY sketchy. Maybe we made it too easy.

    Yes, they were shouldering their skis. Looked like short narrow rental gear from LMS. Not people who should have been anywhere near that hike/terrain.
    Got to give them some level of credit for hiking that far at 9800' asl.

  5. #6955
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    I am super glad that hike exists thanks to your hard work. Also super glad that is is sketchy. Keeps many people away from it. I guess people can't think for themselves/read signs/look at the freaking picture right there as yeahman pointed out.

    It's the same way in any industry. The sign isn't there for people to actually read BEFORE hand. That would make too much sense. The signs are there to cover your ass after someone does something stupid and tries to blame the mountain and the mountain can go, "There are a ton of warning signs before you go out the hike".

  6. #6956
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    Manned penalty box at the start of the hike is inevitable IMO. And they need to require avy gear, and personally vet the people who have no business being out there. Ultimately I think patrol would be saving themselves a lot of time and trouble by just heading off the problem before it starts, and the only way to do that is face to face by scaring the shit out of people when necessary.

    And if they do all this... they need to be clear at the ticket window about the fact that some terrain requires avy gear. I heard a guy in the tram line bitching about that the other day, that he couldn't do the Big and nobody had told him about the beacon requirement, no signs at the ticket window, nothing on this lift ticket, etc. Just put up some signs so you don't end up with another "angry guy at Bridger" scenario. I mean seriously, even though that guy was a total jerk, he still had a point. You need to clearly tell people about that requirement up front.

  7. #6957
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    For sure.

    I love how "angry guy at Bridger" is a universally known scenario in skiing now. lol

  8. #6958
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    Next yer gonna ask patrol to mark the rock fields.

  9. #6959
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Next yer gonna ask patrol to mark the rock fields.
    I'm not asking for anything, just saying what I think will inevitably be implemented due to the current situation. Could be wrong. Maybe they don't give a shit.

  10. #6960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Pro Tip: if Talisman ever talks you into skiing a tree run with him, I suggest the following:
    A) full face helmet
    B) SPOT locator beacon
    C) skis no longer than 146 cm
    D) 8 foot long poles
    E) tent & sleeping bag

    In other news:
    Attachment 269724
    Dude today kicked ass. Bluebird in the morning and dumping snow in the afternoon. We hung at powder seeker for a while and it was great. When the snow started we headed to lone tree and had a blast. Was a great day.

  11. #6961
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    I'm not asking for anything, just saying what I think will inevitably be implemented due to the current situation. Could be wrong. Maybe they don't give a shit.
    it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.

  12. #6962
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    it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.
    I laughed.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Manned penalty box at the start of the hike is inevitable IMO. And they need to require avy gear, and personally vet the people who have no business being out there. Ultimately I think patrol would be saving themselves a lot of time and trouble by just heading off the problem before it starts, and the only way to do that is face to face by scaring the shit out of people when necessary.

    And if they do all this... they need to be clear at the ticket window about the fact that some terrain requires avy gear. I heard a guy in the tram line bitching about that the other day, that he couldn't do the Big and nobody had told him about the beacon requirement, no signs at the ticket window, nothing on this lift ticket, etc. Just put up some signs so you don't end up with another "angry guy at Bridger" scenario. I mean seriously, even though that guy was a total jerk, he still had a point. You need to clearly tell people about that requirement up front.
    They BSSP definitely gives a shit, no one wants to deal with an avoidable accident.


    X2 on the signage or letting people know the deal about required gear.

    Last year there was a big push by some members on the patrol to require a backpack as a minimum for the HW hike. They were over ruled.

    I am not sold on the idea of requiring Beacon/shovel/probe as a requirement for any of the terrain. My reasoning being that it is used to weed out people when in reality it is Safety Gear for avalanches and sends a weird message and that is for Big Sky and BB. The Cooler and the N. Summit in my opinion should have the same gear requirements, either all or none. Neither is open if they are not pretty damn safe from the possibility of avalanche.

    The Big Sky patrol is already busy dealing with all kinds of shit and I have heard that all the depts. at Big Sky are under some pressure to keep OT to a minimum, that is difficult when you consider that a normal day runs from 8-5:30 x 4 days. It doesn't leave much slop for A/C mornings. Again, not to toss shit but this morning at 9:30 they were still doing explosives work on the south face which leads me to believe they didn't come in early. Odd since the entire upper mountain was blown down yesterday or so I was told.

    Lone Mountain is a gnarly place to patrol and again in my opinion, the patrol should be exempt from Overtime restrictions within reason. What with the crowds this season there isn't that much time to train and remain current in all the areas that they need to.

    As for a manned penalty box at the start of the hike, I used to hang out at the start of the hike on nicer days and basically yell at people, especially snowboarders who were about to hike without a pack, too many dropped snowboards that became unguided missiles. I usually kept a pocket full of P-cord lanyards so that at the very least the boarders could have a hand leash. I think most people underestimate the difficulty of that terrain and over estimate their ability to access it let alone ski it. Last year a couple of guests got pretty messed up.

    Anyway, /rant.
    Last edited by Not bunion; 02-14-2019 at 07:10 PM.

  13. #6963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    WRG, out of curiosity, were they shouldering their skis or did they have packs to carry the gear?
    I was wondering the same thing. Packs aren't a cure all, but having both hands free for poles and skis firmly on a pack help me a lot, but I'm the guy that almost killed Harry on Valentine's day in gnarly trees.

  14. #6964
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    it was joke about me from earlier in this thread.
    Yeah I understood the reference. But in seriousness, the day that got you riled up was a very unusual combination of circumstances (and I agree it was not handled well), whereas this HW hike issue is an ongoing problem, especially this year according to some patrollers.

    FWIW I couldn't care less if they closed Chicken Bowl permanently. It's a deathtrap on the best of days. But the whole mountain is a rock field so once you start down the road of marking stuff I can't see where it stops.

  15. #6965
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    Years ago, a short hike at kicking horse that accesses some rowdy terrain had a hand written sign that said something to the effect of "if you don't have a beacon/ probe/ shovel, fuck off."

    Aside from the profanity (which is effective) and requiring avy gear (also effective at weeding out the gape), I think just the fact that it was a hand written sign made a difference. Everywhere you go these days, there's big signs warning of every little danger. Paying close attention to those signs could easily lead to a brutally paranoid existence. The signs are there to limit liability, not warn of an actual, present danger. Hence, pretty much everyone barely gives them a second glance.

    But then those people that are conditioned to not worry too much about warning signage go to a place like headwaters, where there is a legitimate danger. And they ignore those signs just like every other warning sign. And they get themselves into trouble.

    But that handwritten sign at kicking horse conveys actual danger. It's clearly not written by/ for the lawyers - those signs look more professional. It's written by the guy who doesn't want to deal with pealing your carcass off the rocks you just tomahawked through.

    No idea if the sign at kicking horse actually worked to reduce the jerry factor. But it was memorable, whereas I have only a vague recollection of the signature on headwaters, even though I've seen those signs more recently and more often. Which makes me think the kicking horse sign achieved it's goal of making an impression.

  16. #6966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    I'm the guy that almost killed Harry on Valentine's day in gnarly trees.
    You are easily the most dangerous mofo on the mountain. That Wormhole bullshit almost impaired my ability to perform sexy time with my GF on Valentine's Day. I hope one of those speed control chumps pulls your pass this weekend.
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  17. #6967
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    No idea if the sign at kicking horse actually worked to reduce the jerry factor.
    Lawsuit Launched-Kicking Horse Lost Skiers
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=159330
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  18. #6968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Lawsuit Launched-Kicking Horse Lost Skiers
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=159330
    I guess sometimes Jerry's gonna Jerry, no matter what the sign says.

  19. #6969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    That Wormhole bullshit almost impaired my ability to perform sexy time with my GF on Valentine's Day. I hope one of those speed control chumps pulls your pass this weekend.
    The near death experience should have enhanced your Valentine's eve romp! If my pass gets pulled, I'll get one of those Ikon passes the cool kids have these days that are pissing people off. Any way you need me to have a pass to share my extensive smoke shack knowledge with you.

  20. #6970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    Any way you need me to have a pass to share my extensive smoke shack knowledge with you.
    Good point.
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  21. #6971
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    Gotta keep all you sheep corralled there in Pig Sty, oh my.

  22. #6972
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    Toast, you and the better 1/2 make it into town?

    I have some 1/2 price vouchers if you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by FringeLife View Post
    Gotta keep all you sheep corralled there in Pig Sty, oh my.

    Baaaaaaaaaaah

  23. #6973
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    I think everyone needs to hike the old headwaters boot pack. Especially when the wind has scoured the scree field and you have to stop every 2 steps and not get blown off the mountain.

    Signed,

    A beater snowboarder.

  24. #6974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Toast, you and the better 1/2 make it into town?

    I have some 1/2 price vouchers if you need.
    Planning on driving down tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the offer! We're good on tickets though.

    Hoping this storm slows down a bit and leaves something for us on Saturday. Although I'm sure the wind will do its thing and skiing will be good.

  25. #6975
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    I'm sure more fell in Madison county at higher elevations, but ~5 inches fell overnight at 6800 feet and 32*F.

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