2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

**Harry** · 03-10-2016, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by CrystalMountainSkier

That's the 2017 list, here's this year:
http://liftblog.com/new-lifts-2016/

Well, there it is: a detachable 6-pack.

**yeahman** · 03-10-2016, 10:15 AM

It makes no sense to put a 6-pack in the Bowl. They must be planning on starting the lift lower on the mountain. I agree with Harry, that would suck. Mid-stations suck too. Somebody join NS and ask that girl what the plan is.

**concretejungle** · 03-10-2016, 10:30 AM

Boyne reasons.

**Hodgge** · 03-10-2016, 10:52 AM

I could see a 6-pack starting at the base, running up the old gondola line, mid-station at the base of the bowl, ending where the triple ends now.

I agree, loading at a mid-station sucks, and it would put a million people right into the tram line, but that would seem like a somewhat logical lift. It would serve as a nice backup for the next time Swifty dies as well.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-10-2016, 11:19 AM

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com...5b4c53206.html

BOZEMAN, Mont. (AP) — An 82-year-old California man who had been reported missing while attending a conference at a Montana ski hill has been found dead.

Gallatin County officials say Paul James Stoll of Santa Paula, California, was last seen Tuesday morning at the Huntley Lodge at Big Sky Resort. He was reported missing at about 7 p.m. Wednesday after he failed to attend some conference events.

Searchers found his body early Thursday in some trees near a ski lift. The cause of death has not been determined.

Shitty deal.

**yeahman** · 03-10-2016, 02:51 PM

RIP to that fellow.

If I die skiing when I'm 82, I will die a happy man.

**Harry** · 03-10-2016, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

What they don't need is Challenger. Just tear it down and leave it accessible from the Moonlight side. It's been great skiing up there without the crowds.

This was $$$$$$ today. Rode the Headwaters lift and crossed over to Challenger terrain. Was rewarded with boot deep wind buffed cream cheese. My best run of the whole season by far. Nobody was up there.

**muted** · 03-10-2016, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

RIP to that fellow.

If I die skiing when I'm 82, I will die a happy man.

I don't think he was too happy during the last hour or two, but I get what you are saying.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-10-2016, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Harry

This was $$$$$$ today. Rode the Headwaters lift and crossed over to Challenger terrain. Was rewarded with boot deep wind buffed cream cheese. My best run of the whole season by far. Nobody was up there.

See what I mean. Extend Iron Horse, take out Challenger, double the number of chairs on Headwaters to 1 every 30 seconds, way cheaper than a new Triple chair, and its like sidecountry skiing.

Never happen.

**yeahman** · 03-10-2016, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bunion

See what I mean. Extend Iron Horse, take out Challenger, double the number of chairs on Headwaters to 1 every 30 seconds, way cheaper than a new Triple chair, and its like sidecountry skiing.

Could they do that without upgrading the Headwaters lift? I always assumed the chairs were so far apart because that's all the weight the lift could support.

I skied Big Sky the first year Challenger was built. It was great to be able to access rocky chutes and steep terrain, kind of a novelty back then, but that was before Moonlight, Headwaters, the Tram, etc. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that perhaps the Challenger lift has outlived its usefulness and really isn't needed anymore. Your idea of extending Iron Horse makes a lot more sense in this day and age when the idea of putting in a little more effort for better turns isn't an alien concept (and I say that with all due respect to the ridge at Bridger which was way ahead of its time in this regard, in the U.S. anyway).

I saw Taylor M. in the lodge yesterday. I am seriously going to propose this to him next time I see him (yes, I am that obnoxious).

**nest** · 03-10-2016, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Could they do that without upgrading the Headwaters lift? I always assumed the chairs were so far apart because that's all the weight the lift could support.

I skied Big Sky the first year Challenger was built. It was great to be able to access rocky chutes and steep terrain, kind of a novelty back then, but that was before Moonlight, Headwaters, the Tram, etc. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that perhaps the Challenger lift has outlived its usefulness and really isn't needed anymore. Your idea of extending Iron Horse makes a lot more sense in this day and age when the idea of putting in a little more effort for better turns isn't an alien concept (and I say that with all due respect to the ridge at Bridger which was way ahead of its time in this regard, in the U.S. anyway).

I saw Taylor M. in the lodge yesterday. I am seriously going to propose this to him next time I see him (yes, I am that obnoxious).

IMO a challenger lift is integral to lone peak. I love BS but without challenger there are very limited options to lap steep terrain without taking multiple lifts (headwaters face/lone tree/gullies and big when its walk on). I love the big laps but sometimes its nice to get some vert without taking a bunch of lifts.

**peck257** · 03-10-2016, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

RIP to that fellow.

If I die skiing when I'm 82, I will die a happy man.

Can't think of a better way to go. I hope I can still ski when I am 82.

**peck257** · 03-10-2016, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by nest

IMO a challenger lift is integral to lone peak. I love BS but without challenger there are very limited options to lap steep terrain without taking multiple lifts (headwaters face/lone tree/gullies and big when its walk on). I love the big laps but sometimes its nice to get some vert without taking a bunch of lifts.

challenger is by far my favorite lift and area to ski but last year when challenger was down the headwaters route wasn't bad. An upgrade to the triple is definitely needed.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-11-2016, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Could they do that without upgrading the Headwaters lift? I always assumed the chairs were so far apart because that's all the weight the lift could support.

I skied Big Sky the first year Challenger was built. It was great to be able to access rocky chutes and steep terrain, kind of a novelty back then, but that was before Moonlight, Headwaters, the Tram, etc. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that perhaps the Challenger lift has outlived its usefulness and really isn't needed anymore. Your idea of extending Iron Horse makes a lot more sense in this day and age when the idea of putting in a little more effort for better turns isn't an alien concept (and I say that with all due respect to the ridge at Bridger which was way ahead of its time in this regard, in the U.S. anyway).

I saw Taylor M. in the lodge yesterday. I am seriously going to propose this to him next time I see him (yes, I am that obnoxious).

You and Nest both have good viewpoints.

Before Challenger was built (1988) all the terrain was accessed by going up LRT traverse.

To answer your questions.

The number of Headwaters chairs was because when we bought the chair from Kirkwood (Hole in the wall chair) Those were all the hangers (chairs) left from the removal process that were worth a shit.

It was an old Yan double and past its life span. The MLB lift maint crew along with design work from an engineer rebuilt the entire lift except for the Base 10 drive station.

The Motor and the aux are basically new. We didn't want to overload the terrain so we went with a chair ever 60 seconds.

The Jupiter lift at Park City (a Yan double from, the same era) runs at 1 chair every 6 seconds so yes, very possible. It would mean replacing all the chairs and improving the unload station at the top of Headwaters.

Iron Horse is a bottom drive. To extend the lift would require a new haul rope (the current rope is now 20 years old) 2-3 new towers and tower heads and sheave assemblies and some engineering. The top terminal would be fairly easy to relocate.

Challenger was a 13 minute ride. Iron Horse is currently an 8 minute ride at about 450-500 fpm, add on an additional 500 feet and its a 9 minute ride. Headwaters is about a 4-5 minute ride so for ride times it is a wash. There is the hassle of having to ride 2 lifts as well as the lap around time to Iron Horse which isn't much worse than skiing to the bottom of the present Challenger bottom.

IMUO the Challenger terrain is going to be pretty fucked up by more skiers, its not that big an area to begin with so a Triple chair will impact the skiing in a big way.

If you see TM and suggest it, it would be best to not mention this forum or Bunion. We have a bit of history.

**yeahman** · 03-11-2016, 09:46 AM

That's all very interesting information. Thanks. I agree with what you say about the bottom 1/3 of Challenger terrain being pretty much a waste of time. The way you lay it out, it really wouldn't be much different time-wise to go around to the dark side, and then we wouldn't have that ugly chairlift in the middle of that otherwise awesome face.

A lot of people love Challenger, and I totally respect that. For some reason I just never connected with the terrain up there until this year, when it's empty and Moonlight (the run) has been such a go-to for good conditions during the February drought. It's been cool up there and I selfishly don't want it to go back to how it was.

And...If I talk to TM it will strictly be my thing. I'm guessing he'll be so awed by my (your) brilliance he will offer me 80k a year to ski the mountain and share my opinions with him on how to run the place.

**axebiker** · 03-11-2016, 05:32 PM

Reading this thread at BWW in BZN!

Who's gonna be out at BS tomorrow? Gonna try to grab a cup o Joe with Harry in the AM...

**axebiker** · 03-12-2016, 05:33 PM

Pretty frozen this morning on the Dark Side. It was a little better at BS. Softened up a LOT in the afternoon though. Wind hold on the triple from time to time, and of course the tram. Snow coverage isn't all that bad though, considering the lack of storms lately

Fun day! Sore ankle...

**yeahman** · 03-12-2016, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by axebiker

Reading this thread at BWW in BZN!

Who's gonna be out at BS tomorrow? Gonna try to grab a cup o Joe with Harry in the AM...

I'd ski with you axe, but I won't be back down until Tuesday. Duty calls. Let me know if you're still going to be around.

**axebiker** · 03-12-2016, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

I'd ski with you axe, but I won't be back down until Tuesday. Duty calls. Let me know if you're still going to be around.

I'll be around until Friday! Let's meet up!

**Harry** · 03-13-2016, 08:13 AM

Had coffee with axe yesterday morning, skiing with him today. 9:30 at Madison Base. axe = green patagucci, me = yellow fly low. Ask for change.

**Harry** · 03-13-2016, 04:16 PM

Morning was icy and not much fun. Afternoon however, was awesome. I took axe down my signature route thru the Bavarian Forest over off Dakota Lift (Austin knows the route I am talking about). Blew axe's mind, despite multiple years vacationing in Big Sky he had no idea that terrain was even here.

**axebiker** · 03-13-2016, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Harry

Morning was icy and not much fun. Afternoon however, was awesome. I took axe down my signature route thru the Bavarian Forest over off Dakota Lift (Austin knows the route I am talking about). Blew axe's mind, despite multiple years vacationing in Big Sky he had no idea that terrain was even here.

Yep! Thx for giving my 30-second quads a good beating! Definitely one of the best "tours" I've ever gotten here! Who knew there was anything outside the boundaries of the Liberty Bowl?!? Snow conditions were pretty good - minimal Lone Peak tattoos on my ski bases.

Looking forward to steak night on Wednesday with you and AustinFrom SA!