2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[Talisman]

Well it's March, and it's going to be crowded all month. Past couple days I rode the lift with people from Florida, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, NYC, New Hampshire, Bozeman, and Missoula. And probably some I forgot.

You left out Madison County!

I got a late start because of work and the visitors must have burned out quickly, as I skied on to every lift starting at 11:30 AM. Challenger, Headwaters and Lone Tree kept me amused along with other lifts. My last run featured uncut knee deep in spots.

[Bunion 2020]

Couple of items.

1. The GM at Big Sky is losing his shit over all the stickers.

2. I spoke with a guy who knows, Big Sky is getting a bit over $ 50.00 per day from IKON.

3. Fucking huge slide on the South Face of Wilson Peak that was visible this morning before the clouds rolled in. Since 1991/92 I have never seen that thing slide like that, folks that have been on Lone Mountain a lot longer say the same thing.

4. I found out that I have lost my regular ski tuner, he worked in the shop at the Madison and was heard to say unkind things about IKON, now he-Gon.

5. Big Sky is sending C&D letters to merchants who sell Big Sky logo gear unless they pay royalties.

So it goes.

[WMD]

Attachment 272029

Another fine Bridger Bowl day today. Report said it was 3 inches, but I have no idea where they got that from. It was way deeper. Dense too - the report said it was 9%! But at least the sky was blue in the morning. . .

My kids had a bad case of powder flu - so bad the 9 year old asked to ski Schlasman's for the first time. He wanted to hike, too, but he injured his leg last week and it was bugging him enough we decided to save that for another day.

[yeahman]

3. Fucking huge slide on the South Face of Wilson Peak that was visible this morning before the clouds rolled in. Since 1991/92 I have never seen that thing slide like that, folks that have been on Lone Mountain a lot longer say the same thing.

Not sure how related this is, if at all, but waiting for rope drop on the Bowl yesterday I was talking to Ryan, ski patrol director, about all the stuff that slid above the Bowl during control work that morning, and he was pointing to the farthest cliff above the South Wall/Exit Chute area and he remarked that he'd never seen it slide in that particular spot before, or at least it was very rare. So rare that he had decided to send two patrollers out there to do the route a second time, just to double check the area again before opening.

[yeahman]

Attachment 272029My kids had a bad case of powder flu - so bad the 9 year old asked to ski Schlasman's for the first time.

That's awesome man!

[WMD]

That's awesome man!

Thanks! As a parent it is so awesome when they go from tolerating skiing to being into it, and from wanting to just cruise mellow stuff to starting to want to push themselves and explore the mountain.

You clearly know all about it! I've been impressed with what your kids are doing up at Big Sky.

[Talisman]

1. The GM at Big Sky is losing his shit over all the stickers.

2. I spoke with a guy who knows, Big Sky is getting a bit over $ 50.00 per day from IKON.

3. Fucking huge slide on the South Face of Wilson Peak that was visible this morning before the clouds rolled in. Since 1991/92 I have never seen that thing slide like that, folks that have been on Lone Mountain a lot longer say the same thing.

I have been trying to conduct myself "to not be a dick", but knowing the GM is bothered by stickers wants me to apply them liberally, where does when get some of the IKON stickers?

Getting a few bucks more than $50 seems like Boyne is giving it away to IKON and MC holders. Given what gold passes and walk up tickets cost, $50 something a day seems like revenue could get undermined. Presidents Day was uncrowded, but I heard Boyne sold every bed that weekend and I wonder if BS becomes more crowded if the big spenders will migrate to other locations.

I spend a lot of time gazing at Mt Wilson and need to look for that slide.

[regct]

From GNFAC


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[yeahman]

^^yikes. Does that slide path end near the Lone Mtn Ranch nordic trails?

[Bunion 2020]

Not sure how related this is, if at all, but waiting for rope drop on the Bowl yesterday I was talking to Ryan, ski patrol director, about all the stuff that slid above the Bowl during control work that morning, and he was pointing to the farthest cliff above the South Wall/Exit Chute area and he remarked that he'd never seen it slide in that particular spot before, or at least it was very rare. So rare that he had decided to send two patrollers out there to do the route a second time, just to double check the area again before opening.

Ryan is a good guy and will be a fine PD. He started around the time the Tram went in and has seen a lot.

One that same subject, I ran into one of the SS Directors at the bottom of the bowl yesterday and asked him how well he had been sleeping, he said a lot better since the Temperatures has dropped to single digits.

It is an axiom in the world of avalanches that weird weather creates weird avalanches. This past week has been beyond weird. I can only recall a few storm cycles that has such prolonged snow and wind. The cycle of Christmas 1996 was one and we lost a good friend and wrecked the top of Shedhorn. This cycle may have had less snow in inches but more water equivalent. What made it really odd was the temps and wind directions. On Thursday when I left the Y/C (working) it was 31 degrees and snowing. When it is that warm, snow is very dynamic and is creeping down hill rapidly and putting a lot of stress on lower layers so it was not surprising that Big Sky was being damn careful.

I have been trying to conduct myself "to not be a dick", but knowing the GM is bothered by stickers wants me to apply them liberally, where does when get some of the IKON stickers?

Getting a few bucks more than $50 seems like Boyne is giving it away to IKON and MC holders. Given what gold passes and walk up tickets cost, $50 something a day seems like revenue could get undermined. Presidents Day was uncrowded, but I heard Boyne sold every bed that weekend and I wonder if BS becomes more crowded if the big spenders will migrate to other locations.

I spend a lot of time gazing at Mt Wilson and need to look for that slide.

I won't be a dick to people who are just skiing. If they got a good deal, kudos for them.

If they are clueless about where they stand or damn near run me over or don't get it that if you are a single you use the fucking singles line rather than the group lines, well?

I just posted in the IKON thread about that very same thing (IKON/MC cannibalizing ticket sales).

The other things is that Big Sky is not able to deal with the new normal very well.

For example, in the Challenger area you have Fast Lane feeding people back from Moonlight to the main base and they need to hold their speed because it is pretty flat. BRT Road feeds from the main area towards Iron Horse and Challenger bottom and crosses blindly that trail and then you have all the good skiers coming down from Challenger towards that intersection. It is a hairy place these days to ski through an I almost got hit yesterday by 3 skiers coming off of BRT. Yesterday there was a slow sign at the intersection and a patroller was standing there.

On the good side, at the bottom of Swifty yesterday, a guy was really working to keep the line moving and people grouped into 4s thanks Garrett. My 2nd lap up Challenger the line was just starting to grow and Summer? was doing the same thing and making it work well.

By the time I was ready for a 3rd lap it was total mayhem with little to no crowd control possible. I went to Moonlight instead. Bottom of 6-shooter maze is sized ok and the ticket checkers were on top of the crowds but the maze system is confusing as hell, maybe it is just that people get confused by 6 and 8 packs. There was jack shit for a maze at the bottom of lone tree and it was a cluster. I said fuck it and left.


/rant.

[regct]

^^yikes. Does that slide path end near the Lone Mtn Ranch nordic trails?

I don’t know. I don’t think so though, I think those paths are way further up the drainage than the Nordic trails go, and there is a big creek(s) gully down there that separate the two.

Pretty gnarly. I’ve never seen that slide. I don’t think that aspect gets skied. It’s usually pretty thin right there, prob partially why it avalanched.


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[Bunion 2020]

Googly perspective, to quote a friend, it is a big chunk of country.

[yeahman]

I won't be a dick to people who are just skiing. If they got a good deal, kudos for them.

If they are clueless about where they stand or damn near run me over or don't get it that if you are a single you use the fucking singles line rather than the group lines, well?

Yeah, I'm never a dick to tourists, I always enjoy talking to them on the lift, and I've shown dozens of newcomers the way off the tram for their first time, often in poor light or challenging conditions for them. And I try to be patient when they are standing in the way. Some of it should be common sense but some of it is just not knowing the area. Many gapers were gaping on the Turkey Traverse the other day, everybody had to just stop and wait because it was very deep off both sides and no way around, but what annoyed me were the bros coming up behind and trying to pass, when really we were all at the mercy of somebody who was having trouble out front. But whatever. The fresh tracks at the end were worth it.

One thing I've noticed many, many times this year are groups of people completely blocking the way out to the traverse from the top of the tram, putting their skis on and just generally standing around. I usually try to find a way around uphill and don't say anything, but one day I said "This really isn't a good place to stand" as I squeezed through probably nicking their skis, and was met with a snarky "Thanks buddy, you have a good day too." Sent a bird back at 'em as I skied away. But really for the most part I try to be understanding and not let it kill my buzz. Some signage up there might help the situation. They put enough "don't pee here" signs around, maybe they could use a few "don't stand here" signs.

[dump]

Skiing big sky tomorrow and Monday for first time before driving back to Seattle. Would appreciate any intel on a game plan for skiing based on current conditions, openings, etc. the mountain is so damn big feeling somewhat lost looking at maps on how to approach and don’t want to waste time. Not looking for secret stashes, just general areas to head to. Love steeps but no mandatory air/cliff exposure - I’m not a billy goat. Thanks

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Like to say that Morgan at LMS did a great job fitting me some new power wraps first thing this morning. Boots feel and ski fantastic now.

[yeahman]

Skiing big sky tomorrow and Monday for first time before driving back to Seattle. Would appreciate any intel on a game plan for skiing based on current conditions, openings, etc. the mountain is so damn big feeling somewhat lost looking at maps on how to approach and don’t want to waste time. Not looking for secret stashes, just general areas to head to. Love steeps but no mandatory air/cliff exposure - I’m not a billy goat. Thanks

You ask ten people that question you'll get ten different answers. Everybody has their own strategy.

Personally I usually get in line at 8:45 for Ramcharger (most people line up at Swiftcurrent) to do a couple warmups. Get first tracks on the corduroy down Bighorn, then take Thunder Wolf lift back up and ski down Silver Knife to the base (Silver Knife gets less traffic than Tippy's Tumble, more fresh roy). Then if I haven't heard any bombs for a while, I head up to the Powder Seeker lift. If the tram is loading I go there from the top of Powder Seeker, if it's not loading (the sign in the window at the top of Powder Seeker will say tram "closed") I ski the bowl until the tram starts loading. Once the tram opens, lots of options there--Marx, Lenin and the Gullies are all great runs that will get you back to Powder Seeker and back to the tram pretty quickly. If you want to do the North Summit Snowfield or Big Couloir, head into the wooden shack on the peak and sign up. Avy gear required for the Big C. However, with limited time you may not want to wait for these special access runs, as they only let one group go every 15 minutes. That said, they are both memorable and worth doing in their own way.

By then it's noon at least? Ski over to the Challenger lift and do a couple runs on that, then ride it up again and drop off the other side into the Headwaters. There are a few lines on that side that can be lapped by riding the Headwaters lift. If you want to do a hike to reach more HW terrain or A-Z chutes, do that from the top of Challenger or Headwaters lift. Again, great terrain but takes more time than you might want to spend if you only have two days.

End of day I like to get back in the tram line at 2:30 or so and do one or two more (I think they are running the tram till 3 pm these days for skiers). Late afternoon is a great time to be on the top of Lone Peak. After that the last hour of the day can be spent wherever you want--lapping Powder Seeker (South Wall has the best pitch) is a great way to jellify the legs for the last hour. Or go do cruisers elsewhere, or go back to Challenger. Or go to Scissorbill's for apres beers.

Second day you probably want to check out some other areas. North facing trees off Ramcharger are fun and well worth checking out in the morning (Shady Chute, Colter's Hell, Peru, Bolivia, Blue Room, etc.). Then maybe head back over to the tram and ski Liberty Bowl down to the Dakota lift. Lots of options on Dakota, try Bavarian Forest, Erika's Glades and//or Aspen Meadows. Hanging Valley is also kind of cool just because it's out there under a neat cliff face. If Dakota snow is not good, move over to the Shedhorn lift. Dude Park and Pack Saddle Glades are fun. Lunch at the Shedhorn yurt is a nice option if you're over there.

If visibility is really poor on any given day, the tree runs on Moonlight offer a respite (Singlejack, Doublejack, Broken Heart, Shaftway, and on and on, there are many, accessed by riding the Six Shooter lift and then the Lone Tree lift). Lone Tree lift has lots of short steep options that can be fun too. Traverse out looker's left from the top of Lone Tree and there are some fun, short chutes.

That'll get you started. You're only going to scratch the surface but no matter what you'll have a blast exploring.

[dump]

Damn yea man appreciate the detailed response. Let me know if you’re up there over the next two days or down in Bozeman at night and I’ll gladly buy you a beer or two Thanks!

[North]

Skied 2 days (Thurs, Fri) and had a blast. Hadn't been to BS in a few years, and this round provided the best skiing hands down.

Spun a bunch of mini laps off Dakota when vis was bad Thursday. Good run down Liberty (only tram terrain open) and some sneaky pow cleanup on frontside to close out the day. Would've spent more time on Challenger had I known what was over there, c'est la vie.

Good vis on Friday, big tram line so I hiked headwaters all day. Have looked at A-Z many times, but conditions have never lined up. Super fun to get acquainted with those chutes, put my own track in 3 of them before moving on. Headwaters runs are likely better/more sustained but I couldn't resist (figured S shots aren't in condition as often).

Other rambles:
- Big props to Patrol - dudes/gals got things opened up in weird conditions. Headwaters hike was a touch slick first lap, patrol was carving a ledge after that. Above and beyond IMO.
- Huge mountain, lots to explore. Didn't get over to Ramcharger until late Friday.
- Heated chairs are ridiculous! Feels like riding in a spaceship.
- Lots of chairlift conversations started with folks asking me "do you live here?" Honestly think the IKON crowd is feeling the heat a bit and is testing the waters before outing themselves as (GASP) visitors. Kind of a bummer...
- I know locals hate it, but the kid in the tram line (both days!, #tramrat) wearing sweatpants and drinking a monster cracked me up
- Lots of day passes out there, ticket window surprisingly busy in the AM

It's down in the meadows, but we had good luck camping in a lot behind beehive brewing.

Thanks for the tip. Got a beer and made the 15s walk home safely.

I won't be a dick to people who are just skiing. If they got a good deal, kudos for them.

If they are clueless about where they stand or damn near run me over or don't get it that if you are a single you use the fucking singles line rather than the group lines, well?

Opinion: I thought the lift ops at BS was a little screwy/confusing at times. Dude running the show at sweetwater Thursday was making a thin crowd worse, unfilled chairs and a mile-long singles line.

Lots of non-existent singles lines (Dakota) or improvised singles lines (Challenger, attendant running singles out of "Authorized Personnel" line, single line overrun). It's not rocket science, but IMO if the system is fricked/inconsistent you're gonna have issues. Took me a minute to sort it out at a few lifts myself, not sure I'd expect IKON jerry to get it first try.

[Talisman]

This may be a morning to take your time getting to the hill. Currently -7*F and a dusting of fresh snow at 6800 FT and calm wind.

[Bunion 2020]

-14 here in 4 Corners, at least it is sunny.

Post Dirt Bag day today.

Opinion: I thought the lift ops at BS was a little screwy/confusing at times. Dude running the show at sweetwater Thursday was making a thin crowd worse, unfilled chairs and a mile-long singles line.

Lots of non-existent singles lines (Dakota) or improvised singles lines (Challenger, attendant running singles out of "Authorized Personnel" line, single line overrun). It's not rocket science, but IMO if the system is fricked/inconsistent you're gonna have issues. Took me a minute to sort it out at a few lifts myself, not sure I'd expect IKON jerry to get it first try.

I think a lot of that has to do with the recent increase in skier days and a slow reaction. There is a singles sign on that "Authorized Personnel" access at challenger but it is low and hard to see.

You are right it is NOT rocket surgery, just a matter of working out the bugs. A good Line Minster will occasionally send groups of however many from the singles line to keep the singles line moving and be vocal to the groups. Also the ticket checkers need to understand that a missed scan is not nearly as bad as holding up the line and not filling chairs. I know the head of Lift Operations, he really does give a damn and works hard to get it right as do his supervisors. Being a lift op or Ticket Checker is a thankless task so I go out of my way to offer appreciation for their work. The Bigwigs at BS do monitor this page and will read this, they don't pay much attention to my rantings but as a visitor your feedback will maybe get some traction.

Please tell your friends Montana is dark, cold, crowded and the snow sucks.

[Talisman]

A good Line Minster will occasionally send groups of however many from the singles line to keep the singles line moving and be vocal to the groups. Also the ticket checkers need to understand that a missed scan is not nearly as bad as holding up the line and not filling chairs. I know the head of Lift Operations, he really does give a damn and works hard to get it right as do his supervisors.

BS has gotten better at lift line management, notably at Swifty. Sixshooter and Ramcharger are organized sometimes and others not so much. Headwaters, Dakota and Lonetree can turn into cluster farcks at times.

How about the Ramcharger getting the gate fixed so it can load as an 8 person again?

[Bunion 2020]

That part is being manufactured in Switzerland even as we speak, it will then be sent by ship to America and trucked to Montana.

I am impressed that to date they have not just duct taped a piece of re-bar to it and called it good.

[Talisman]

That part is being manufactured in Switzerland even as we speak, it will then be sent by ship to America and trucked to Montana.

I am impressed that to date they have not just duct taped a piece of re-bar to it and called it good.

I was thinking duct tape and a piece of bamboo, but rebar has the MT cold iron mojo.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

It does seem quite odd that they couldn't just tech screw a thin piece of aluminum onto that arm. Doesn't the actual mechanism swing still, just missing the plastic?

[Talisman]

It does seem quite odd that they couldn't just tech screw a thin piece of aluminum onto that arm. Doesn't the actual mechanism swing still, just missing the plastic?

Yes, there is a stump of metal (likely Al) protruding from the broken plastic that could easily accommodate a tech screwed, welded, duct taped, wire tie or hose clamped prosthetic until the official part arrives from Europe. I am not sure which is more ghetto an improvised arm or the orange tape blocking two lanes of a shiny new lift touted to be the only 8 person in North America.