2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Anyone have a recco for a plumber working in Big Sky that would do a smaller job running lines for a washing machine in a condo? I know everyone is pretty much only doing new construction in da clubs and MLB. Thanks.

[regct]

Not going to go too far down this rabbit hole because it’s over, but the bottom line is that the BSSP was infiltrated by big labor and a small handful of experienced patrollers and took advantage of ignorant young patrollers with over inflated egos and a sense of self importance. All while keeping the petition a secret from 1/3 of the patrol until after it was filed. I think that is reflected in the vote tally.

Patrollers who haven’t been witness to the astounding progress the patrol has made in the last 5 years.

They have no demands that we don’t already get.

3 or 4 of the 5 or 6 members of the “organizing committee” aren’t even returning next season.

The remaining members of the organizing committee are gone for the summer and unable to be present at the negotiating table.

The remaining few are unorganized, entitled, lazy and bored gen z’ers who are on a never ending quest for self validation.

The quality of patroller on BSSP has dwindled significantly in recent years. Bad skiers. Soft skin. Can’t handle the stresses of the work.

Ski patrolling is not a skilled job. It’s seasonal grunt work. Glorified lifeguarding. You could teach a monkey how to mitigate avalanche danger. We aren’t out there performing high angle rescues. We are not hero’s. We sure do like to take the credit though.

6 years ago I was hired onto BSSP as a rookie at $11 per hour. My second year the rookies were hired in at $13 per hour and I was still at $11 per hour. Last season I made $22 per hour and I’m done with it. Pride in flying the cross has turned to embarrassment. This exclusive bargaining frat isn’t what I signed up for and control over my livelihood has been taken from me and put into the hands of a bunch of ungrateful whiney children.

Thanks Boyne and Big Sky Resort for all the great opportunities for growth. I’ve been treated very well. Onward to better things.



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[yeahman]

Thanks for your perspective, regct, and good luck with your future endeavors.

[tetzen]

6 years ago I was hired onto BSSP as a rookie at $11 per hour. My second year the rookies were hired in at $13 per hour and I was still at $11 per hour.

I'm struggling to understand how this is a valid argument against unionizing? The company is paying new hires more than experienced ones? (Granted, you did finally make it to $22/hr a few years later.)

[SUPERIOR]

You can make $15 /$20 per hr at Pizza Hut and work nights while skiing all day at Bridger.

Patrollers are in the vast majority EMT qualified and work long hours in somewhat adverse or possibly dangerous conditions.

I know a few patrol here and there in the area, and they’re certainly not dumb. I think they mostly just do it for the love of the service.

As Southwest Montana becomes more gentrified, I would expect that the workforce will trend to wealthy self-employed folks or trust fun kids/early retirees to fill these jobs.

[regct]

I'm struggling to understand how this is a valid argument against unionizing? The company is paying new hires more than experienced ones? (Granted, you did finally make it to $22/hr a few years later.)

It’s an example of putting in a reasonable amount of time and getting fairly compensated in return. Which is made possible through hard work, recognizing opportunities, and a clear path for advancement provided by the employer. Things that the BSSP bargaining unit claim don’t exist.

Why does a 20 year old brand new EMT rookie ski patroller deserve more than $13 or $14 per hour? In my opinion they don’t. But if they show up to work sober for 5 months of work and come back the following season they are rewarded for it. And exponentially so if they make a longer commitment to the job.







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[regct]

As Southwest Montana becomes more gentrified, I would expect that the workforce will trend to wealthy self-employed folks or trust fun kids/early retirees to fill these jobs.

Looking forward to returning to the program as a wealthy self employed speed cop in a decade or so.


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[toast2266]

Another one on the bike park front: there's a new bike park opening in Lakeside this summer. Paid shuttle access (as in, they shuttle you). Camping available on site.

I haven't been up there yet to check it out, but it sounds like there's some cool stuff going in. Options for all abilities, including a jump line that sounds like it's going to be a bunch of fun. They're shooting for a July 15 opening day.

[East2West]

Why does a 20 year old brand new EMT rookie ski patroller deserve more than $13 or $14 per hour? In my opinion they don’t.

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Why’s that? Is it their age, what the job entails, what other entry level jobs pay, local cost of living, etc?

[toastybroski]

I think patrollers should be making more money. The fact you are fighting about it because you had to deal with it seems like a losing argument to me. In a place like big sky patrollers should start at $20 an hour and work up from there. That is only $40k for some hard work and not for the whole year. I would think a senior patroller should get at least $60-70k (30-35 an hour). Am I crazy? Boyne makes boatloads of money and there is a high risk of injury in that career path. This seems like common sense to me and I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Same goes for EMTs.

At the same time, who am I to be talking when I do it for free and they take 20+ hours of my month at a time. Fuck, I actually have to pay more than a season pass to do that shit.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

It's wild to me that a rookie patroller makes less than a truck stop cashier, prep cook, and dishwasher at the co-op (just pulling random jobs from craigslist that all pay $16 - $21/hour). Regct I'm curious if you're aware of that and cool with it, or had you missed the huge jump in pay around here? A few months ago I had to hire someone for a very junior position and I was pretty shocked at what I needed to pay them compared to what I had paid for the same job 2-3 years back.

[toastybroski]

It's wild to me that a rookie patroller makes less than a truck stop cashier, prep cook, and dishwasher at the co-op (just pulling random jobs from craigslist that all pay $16 - $21/hour). Regct I'm curious if you're aware of that and cool with it, or had you missed the huge jump in pay around here? A few months ago I had to hire someone for a very junior position and I was pretty shocked at what I needed to pay them compared to what I had paid for the same job a 2-3 years back.

Right? It just seems like preying on young and dumb people to do anything to live the "ski life"

[regct]

It's wild to me that a rookie patroller makes less than a truck stop cashier, prep cook, and dishwasher at the co-op (just pulling random jobs from craigslist that all pay $16 - $21/hour). Regct I'm curious if you're aware of that and cool with it, or had you missed the huge jump in pay around here? A few months ago I had to hire someone for a very junior position and I was pretty shocked at what I needed to pay them compared to what I had paid for the same job 2-3 years back.

Yes. Cool with it.

They can do the time and prove themselves or they can go be a prep cook or a dish washer.

Rookie patrollers and new EMTs know nothing about ski patrolling on their first day of work.


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[toast2266]

Rookie patrollers and new EMTs know nothing about ski patrolling on their first day of work.

The guy on the fry-o-lator at McDonalds doesn't know anything about french fries on his first day of work either.

The difference between him and a ski patroller is that he doesn't have to have any certifications or training, he doesn't have to know how to administer first aid, he doesn't need to own any expensive gear to do his job, he can affordably live in close proximity to his work, and he's making a couple bucks an hour more than ski patrol.

I bet they can both swing some free fries though.

[regct]

The guy on the fry-o-lator at McDonalds doesn't know anything about french fries on his first day of work either.

The difference between him and a ski patroller is that he doesn't have to have any certifications or training, he doesn't have to know how to administer first aid, he doesn't need to own any expensive gear to do his job, he can affordably live in close proximity to his work, and he's making a couple bucks an hour more than ski patrol.

I bet they can both swing some free fries though.

Actually just invested some money in a robot that is going to replace that fry guy because it’s cheaper to operate than paying his wage.

BSSP gear allowance, pre-union, was $800 per season for a full time patroller. In addition to transceiver and airbag reimbursement.

80 or so hours of EMT recert is provided for free every fall medical refresher. After the first two years when you recert, your original EMT course and recertification is essentially reimbursed. They are also provided free advanced endorsement certifications and CPR recert every year.

In house blaster training is all provided.

Dirtbag fund paid for or reimbursed patrollers for continuing avalanche education.


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[toastybroski]

Actually just invested some money in a machine that is going to replace that fry guy because it’s cheaper to operate than paying his wage.

BSSP gear allowance, pre-union, was $800 per season for a full time patroller. In addition to transceiver and airbag reimbursement.

80 or so hours of EMT recert is provided for free every fall medical refresher. After the first two years when you recert, your original EMT course and recertification is essentially reimbursed. We are also provided free advanced endorsement certifications and CPR recert every year.

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Yeah and are they paid for all the time they spend on those certs? I dont think the local mcdonalds worker pays for their deep fryer and spatulas either... You're acting like they are doing you some favor training you for a job on their dime. That's how it works everywhere.

I had an entire year of training when I was working in the oil industry while making 100k. Those certs don't expire often either. Its silly to think because you get training you should be paid less than the lowest paying jobs in an area.

[regct]

Yeah and are they paid for all the time they spend on those certs? I dont think the local mcdonalds worker pays for their deep fryer and spatulas either... You're acting like they are doing you some favor training you for a job on their dime. That's how it works everywhere.

Are they paid for the time they spend on the certs? Yes...they are.

Yes they are doing a favor training for the job on the job, and paying for it. There is double value in that because I can take those skills and go make money off them somewhere else. Like fighting wild land fire or screening covid patients. Are those jobs paying for you to develop your skills? Not likely.

I can’t walk into a law firm and tell them I’m here to apply for the new associate position. When can I start training?


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[toastybroski]

Are they paid for the time they spend on the certs? Yes...they are.

Yes they are doing a favor training for the job on the job. There is value in that.

I can’t walk into a law firm and tell them I’m here to apply for the new associate position. When can I start training?


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That's not a favor, that's just a fucking job.

[total_immortal]

C'mon guys it's not summer yet, let's save the bickering for warmer days. Go look for treasures on melted out bushwhacky approaches, plenty of snow above 8000' though.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Another one on the bike park front: there's a new bike park opening in Lakeside this summer. Paid shuttle access (as in, they shuttle you). Camping available on site.

I haven't been up there yet to check it out, but it sounds like there's some cool stuff going in. Options for all abilities, including a jump line that sounds like it's going to be a bunch of fun. They're shooting for a July 15 opening day.

Very cool. Was just racing at a brand new bike park like this in Missouri. This is the future for a lot of people. The demand is there. I have been talking about something like this within 20-25 minutes of Bozo since I moved here.

You never know who is reading these threads, so if someone is reading this and wants to get the ball rolling, needs someone to find the land, help with the vision, with 25 years of mountain biking experience and experience managing a $50M corporation PM me.

[regct]

Yeah. Anyway, not trying to cunt up the thread.

It’s just my very strong opinion that 1) Ski patrollers don’t have it that bad and 2) Hiring a giant corporation that doesn’t give a shit about you to threaten the other giant corporation that does give a shit about you isn’t the best way to get what you want.

/rant





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[Bunion 2020]

Rookie patrollers and new EMTs know nothing about ski patrolling on their first day of work.

I will go one further, until your 4th or 5th year you are as much a liability as an asset, particularly doing control work.

And what Regct wrote echos what that other guy (21 years said) verbatim.

[yeahman]

That's not a favor, that's just a fucking job.

I don't know, I had to fork out a lot of money for college tuition to keep my teaching license current. Not to mention the time I had to spend taking classes. And that was when I was in a pretty powerful union.

[Gnar_Shralp406]

Yes. Cool with it.

They can do the time and prove themselves or they can go be a prep cook or a dish washer.

Rookie patrollers and new EMTs know nothing about ski patrolling on their first day of work.


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You'd have to do both to afford to live in BS/Bozo.

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[glademaster]

You get what you pay for...