2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[idahospud]

Not the Y/C group. Last I heard they were working on a Crazy Mountains scheme.

Call me crazy, but I don't necessarily take the YC at face value when they say they're doing or not doing something.

[SUPERIOR]

Call me crazy, but I don't necessarily take the YC at face value when they say they're doing or not doing something.

The way I understand it, the Yellowstone Club (or members thereof) has bank rolled this entity, and hopes to operate in both the Crazies and Centennials.

[idahospud]

The way I understand it, the Yellowstone Club (or members thereof) has bank rolled this entity, and hopes to operate in both the Crazies and Centennials.

That's pretty much what I thought might be the case. Gives the YC proper some distance from the entity and the plausible deniability of "it isn't us!"

[Bunion 2020]

Jackson, Wyoming
Wednesday, January 20, 2021

Private club's heli-skiing plan for Caribou-Targhee forest sputters forward


Land managers along the west side of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem are weighing a proposal to open parts of the Centennial Mountains so members of the Yellowstone Club can go backcountry skiing with helicopters.

An application being considered by the Caribou-Targhee National Forest is still in its earliest stages, said Ashton/Island Park District Ranger Liz Davy. If the applicant does get the tentative nod this winter, it will only be to vet and photograph prospective routes and landing pads from a fixed-wing aircraft and to explore the area via snowmobile.

“I may give a permit for them to do research this year, but that research would not involve helicopters,” Davy told the Jackson Hole Daily. “If I do accept an application, there will be a full-blown environmental analysis, public participation and all that kind of stuff — and we will ask the proponent to pay for it.”

The project proponent is dubbed “Rocky Mountain Heli,” which is a spinoff of sorts of the Yellowstone Club. That private, luxury community — which houses its own exclusive in-bounds ski area in Montana — initially approached the national forest more directly, but was rebuffed.

“They formed a separate entity to apply for this permit, because they were exclusive to Yellowstone Club,” Davy said. “We don’t believe that special use permits should only be exclusive. They should be at least offered to the general public and not for exclusive members.”

A call to the Yellowstone Club on Monday was not returned by press time. Located in Montana’s Madison County adjacent to Big Sky, the club is situated about 50 miles northeast of the heart of the Centennials, a range that forms the boundary between the states of Idaho and Montana. The Centennials are wild, remote country along the Continental Divide that reach to the west of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, and they’re seen as a crucial habitat linkage to central Idaho’s wilderness complex.

Already, much of the Yellowstone Club’s plans have been derailed by the presence of wolverines, an exceedingly rare and large alpine-dwelling cousin of the weasel that inhabits the area.

“They submitted five or six areas, and we nicked those down to two,” Davy said, “because we knew that there are wolverine dens there, and there are active female territories.”

The two remaining zones that Rocky Mountain Heli applied for and are being carried forward sprawl out around Sawtell Peak and Reas Peak. Both sites see frequent snowmobile use and are destinations for sledders pushing off from the Island Park, Idaho, area.

“I did mention that to the helicopter proponent: ‘How are you going to deal with snowmobiles that may have tracked up your slopes?’ ” Davy said. “They, of course, were like, ‘Well, you give us exclusive use.’ ”

The district ranger informed them that it didn’t work that way.

There’s also competition from backcountry skiers, both private and commercial. Hellroaring Powder Guides has a backcounty skiing yurt on the Montana side of the east-to-west mountain range. Although it’s across state lines and within the Centennial Mountains Wilderness Study Area, the yurt is also a half-mile away from one of the proposed heli-skiing zones, said owner Sam Hansen.

“Obviously, it’s not great for my business to have helicopters flying all over,” Hansen said, “because people are coming to my hut to stay in a wilderness study area and enjoy those wilderness characteristics.”

Closer to Jackson Hole around the turn of the century, there was a prolonged fight over heli-skiing in the Palisades Wilderness Study Area, on the Bridger-Teton National Forest south of Teton Pass. A judge found that increasing heli-skiing use above levels that occurred prior to 1984’s Wyoming Wilderness Act violated that law. The issue was also hotly charged and heavily politicized. In 2018, U.S. Rep. Liz Cheney introduced a bill that fizzled, but the legislation proposed going over the U.S. Forest Service’s head to increase Palisades heli-skiing twentyfold.

“Obviously, helicopter skiing across the western United States is extremely controversial,” Caribou-Targhee’s Davy said.

Already, comments about the plans have been piling in, she said. The Winter Wildlands Alliance, a backcountry skiing advocacy group, has alerted its membership to the proposal, encouraging them to help keep helicopters out of the Centennials.

Wilson resident and Centennial Mountains backcountry ski guide Josh Carr is among those who have taken the time to weigh in. He worries that the addition of helicopters would dramatically alter an experience he values.

“People go there looking for a little more serenity,” Carr said. “I personally I feel like I’m getting away from it all — and I live in the mountains.”

“These are some of the last mountains that feel wild,” he said, “and it would definitely take that away.”

Although the deadline for public comments on the 2021 heli-skiing “research permit” has technically passed, Davy says that she’s still interested in what people have to say. At this stage in the process, she’s seeking information about wildlife, other resources and human uses in the proposed permit areas more so than people’s thoughts on the merits of heli-skiing.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...3a36f25cf.html

[Bunion 2020]

That's pretty much what I thought might be the case. Gives the YC proper some distance from the entity and the plausible deniability of "it isn't us!"

While I tend to agree, keep in mind that Y/C member does not mean Y/C operation.

[total_immortal]

The way I understand it, the Yellowstone Club (or members thereof) has bank rolled this entity, and hopes to operate in both the Crazies and Centennials.

Edit: As Bunion points out below I was wrong. I was confusing operators.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ RMR and RMH are the same?

https://rockymountainrotors.com/

Not certain of that.

BTW, there are several Y/C members who own their own Birds and are qualified rotor pilots.

[total_immortal]

^^^ RMR and RMH are the same?

https://rockymountainrotors.com/

Not certain of that.

BTW, there are several Y/C members who own their own Birds and are qualified rotor pilots.

Oops, I stand corrected. I didn't read the article close enough. Thanks for pointing that out Bunion.

[idahospud]

I've met the owner of RMH and this isn't true. His bread and butter is contract helicopter operations (think strategic logging, construction, wildland firefighting) and he owns a pretty large fleet of helicopters. He does most of the heli shuttling for the YC which is why he gets associated with them. He's an interesting guy and has been pretty generous on some SAR operations I've worked on.

Not that I agree with him trying to start a heli-skiing op. Considering the snowpack and the fact you can snowmobile to the summit of any mountains in that area from the Idaho side, I just don't see this as a smart business decision. Imagine dropping a chunk of change to get dropped on top of Mt Jefferson only to find a bunch of slednecks up there and everything already tracked out by highmarks.

I think you're confusing RMR and RMH. RMH was formed last month, RMR does the things that you've just described.

edit: disregard, looks like we posted at the same time.

[Bunion 2020]

Its all just good clean conjecture. No worries.

[toast2266]

Putting aside environmental, snowpack, and user conflict concerns, aren't the centennials fairly small? I haven't been in there in the winter, but it seems like most of the skiable slopes are around 1500 ft. vert, with a few that are maybe a smidge over 2000. That might be fine for a private playground for some Y/C folks, but I can't imagine much of the broader heli-skiing public is going to bother with that. Doesn't seem like a viable operation.

[Lomax]

better than the kardashians closing off North Summit snowfield so they could heli ski on the runout trees

[Talisman]

better than the kardashians closing off North Summit snowfield so they could heli ski on the runout trees

Thank you for the picture as it brought back memories of that major event when the fame queens descended on Big Sky. I recall the Kardashians went "cat skiing" on the freshly groomed for the purpose run out and not "heli-skiing", but could be wrong.

[Bunion 2020]

There was a Heli involved (camera work), I don't think that big ass would fit in a seat though.

[Djongo Unchained]

Cody, Wyoming - home to Buffalo Bill and Buffalo Butt.

[tetzen]

Cody, Wyoming - home to Buffalo Bill and Buffalo Butt.

*snark* That's good.

[biggles]

What's even happening in that picture? Is she going to try and click in?

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[Harry]

^^^ true fact, I was about 10 feet away from her when that pic was snapped. That day at Moonlight was a total shitshow.

Earlier (when she had ski boots on) I had been on my knees helping her click in. So I was under 12 inches from said booty. I am convinced it is fake. It absolutely does not move.


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[mooseknuckle]

^^^ true fact, I was about 10 feet away from her when that pic was snapped. That day at Moonlight was a total shitshow.

Earlier (when she had ski boots on) I had been on my knees helping her click in. So I was under 12 inches from said booty. I am convinced it is fake. It absolutely does not move.


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Were you able to give it a good playful slap?

[Talisman]

That day at Moonlight was a total shitshow.

Earlier (when she had ski boots on) I had been on my knees helping her click in.

Wow there is no end to your BS mayoral duties if you had to be boot up sherpa to a D list reality "star." My bride was on volly patrol for a few days of the Kardashian circus and you two should trade laughs the next time you are over for dinner. I saw Kim on skis once at ML and from 50 feet she looked as wide as she was tall.

[RootSkier]

Anyone driving from MSO to BZN anytime soon? Trying to get a pair of skis to a mag. Definitely will include some $$ for beer/gas/whatever, just trying to avoid the hassle of shipping.

[S_jenks]

Lolo Pass has been fun this season, be it BC skiing or skinny stickin’. It’s been a great place to get your winter fix when you get sick of the drier valleys.

I guess I gotta be thankful for what we have for snowpack. The snotel sites down south paint a dismal picture (with the exception of the Jhole/ghee).

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

This just in: I-70 is still a night terror.

[Iowagriz]

Skiing at the Fish on Friday. With the better Griz and some newbies, so mostly greens and blues. Chair 2 and 7, green coat, bright blue pants, Experience 100s. Ask for change.

I'll be looking for a few fast laps at the end of the day

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[swimmy]

Anyone driving from MSO to BZN anytime soon? Trying to get a pair of skis to a mag. Definitely will include some $$ for beer/gas/whatever, just trying to avoid the hassle of shipping.

I will be in Missoula Feb 8 returning to Boz Feb 10 or 11th. Not sure if that works with your timeline.