2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[swimmy]

Fine decision making.

As I was making my way back around I could see big slides from avy control on both lenon and marx. Looked like the entire upper face of Lenon ripped. Maybe that would've also been fun but certainly not as photogenic.

Took 2 years, but finally managed a visit back to hallowed grounds.

That hike is always a great reminder why some zones should never have a lift. Earning for turning can be a beautiful thing.

[Shredeagle]

Regarding Big Sky locals - I saw some locs throw down the sickest lines I've ever seen in person on the Lizard Wall a couple springs ago. I can't imagine you just show up and do that - thinking there is a pretty hard core group of skiers down there still. And some super ripping boarders.

I've heard Great Divide has some fun terrain parks. Is that true? Are they in good enough shape now? Kids are wanting to head up for a day this week to check it out. Thanks!!

[yeahman]

Regarding Big Sky locals - I saw some locs throw down the sickest lines I've ever seen in person on the Lizard Wall a couple springs ago. I can't imagine you just show up and do that - thinking there is a pretty hard core group of skiers down there still. And some super ripping boarders.

I've heard Great Divide has some fun terrain parks. Is that true? Are they in good enough shape now? Kids are wanting to head up for a day this week to check it out. Thanks!!

Here's a link, I suggest you call for current status. GD is closed Monday-Tuesday. Can't speak to the quality of the parks, but they sure are popular among the local kids.

https://skigd.com/about-great-divide/parks/

[evasive_MT]

Front “page” of the digital NYT today. Gifted link, so free to read.

Big Sky Is Sprawling, Luxurious and Pricey. And, Maybe, the Future of Skiing.

With lift tickets above $225 and surcharges of up to $100 to ride the tram to the top, the vast Montana resort is delivering a high-end experience. Is it a solution to skiing’s problems?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/t...&smid=em-share

[yeahman]

Mostly accurate.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

throw away article.

[S_jenks]

Gorgeous video! Dig the quick-cuts, and it looked like lots of fun cliff drops.

Thanks for posting that up.

[Bunion 2020]

Regarding Big Sky locals - I saw some locs throw down the sickest lines I've ever seen in person on the Lizard Wall a couple springs ago. I can't imagine you just show up and do that - thinking there is a pretty hard core group of skiers down there still. And some super ripping boarders.

Thanks!!

What pray tell is "the Lizard Wall"?

[Shredeagle]

What pray tell is "the Lizard Wall"?

It's the super gnar on the north facing side of Lost Lake.

Thanks for the info Yeahman.

Sick vid MT. It might have given me ADD, but the skiing was awesome, especially for an old dude Weirdo lines are my favorite lines!!

[Gnar_Shralp406]

It's the super gnar on the north facing side of Lost Lake.

Thanks for the info Yeahman.

Sick vid MT. It might have given me ADD, but the skiing was awesome, especially for an old dude Weirdo lines are my favorite lines!!

Thought those were all named after hairstyles? Unless lizard wall is 'do I do not know...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Shredeagle]

Yeah. Who knows. I could be wrong. I thought I heard it called that (or maybe we just made it up one year ), but I can't even remember where now. So YMMV.

[Bunion 2020]

Sounds like you are describing The Angry Hair Piece but yeah, who the fuck knows as the names back there tend to vary.

I think I got this from Ryan Turner.

[ThunderToad]

Yeah they do. There is still a local ski/party scene, and I've been to a few rowdy shack parties this year with a good group of folks who've been around for years and still rip. I'd actually say that the old knock on Big Sky not being a "community" is sort of dated. There is a community of locals there, working and skiing, but they all got in before the boom made everything completely unaffordable. So what the future holds, I don't know. And I'm not a local so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I just know a lot of people who live there and still scrape by.

lots of core skiers and shredders, ya there is underground dirtbag (king and queen) and also a dirtbag ball for the others who think is for them haha- same day as the powder8s

[BobbyBill]

6 inches of 15% graupelcream and it was a whole new ballgame and one of most fun mornings of the season. Ski on lift 9's all morning.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

6 inches of 15% graupelcream and it was a whole new ballgame and one of most fun mornings of the season. Ski on lift 9's all morning.

Very fun in the trees. Hey, where's yesterday's video?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCr0kLcCdzA&t=2s
On the website as normal and the Bridger YouTubez

Nice!

I didn't see it on the gram.

[Bunion 2020]

HELENA – The Montana Supreme Court yesterday effectively placed back on its trajectory a ballot initiative intended to provide stringent protections to sections of the Gallatin and Madison rivers. The court brought the measure one step closer to being placed on the November ballot by reversing the Montana attorney general’s conclusion that the initiative was legally insufficient.

Soon after Attorney General Austin Knudsen issued a memo on Jan. 28 finding Ballot Initiative 24 legally insufficient, the initiative’s petitioners, Cottonwood Environmental Law Center, Montana Rivers, John Meyer and Gallatin Wildlife Association, asked the state Supreme Court to review Knudsen’s legal finding. The court found Knudsen’s determination incorrect, allowing I-24 to continue pursuit of the November 2022 ballot.

I-24 would grant outstanding resource water, or ORW, designation—the greatest protection feasible under state law—to the section of the Madison River between Hebgen and Ennis lakes and the section of the Gallatin River between Yellowstone National Park’s boundary south of Big Sky and the Spanish Creek confluence.

ORW designation prohibits the Department of Environmental Quality from issuing permits for new or increased point-soure discharge that would result in a permanent change to water quality. I-24 petitioners included language in the initiative to prohibit new or increased point-source discharge that would result in a permanent or temporary change in water quality.

In his Jan. 28 memo, Knudsen found the initiative legally insufficient on the grounds that ORW designation of these river sections “could cause a regulatory taking” and “will likely cause significant material harm to one or more business interests in Montana.”

Indeed, dozens of comments sent to Knudsen during his review opposed I-24, many expressing concern for the designation’s impact to development.

Knudsen’s legal argument hinged upon a statement in the Montana Constitution that reads: “Private property shall not be taken or damaged for public use without just compensation to the full extent of the loss.”

The attorney general referenced a previous finding by the Montana Board of Environmental review that said ORW designation would effectively prohibit development unless that development achieved “zero discharge” into the sections of river in question. Knudsen wrote in his memo that “zero discharge” would not be economically nor technically feasible.

Knudsen asserted that I-24 wasn’t legally substantive because it didn’t provide a mechanism to compensate property owners for what they might lose through the ORW designation. The court disagreed, arguing that these property owners could still pursue litigation to recover compensation.

“There is no constitutional need for I-24 itself to contain a mechanism for compensation because the mechanism already exists,” the court’s opinion says.

The court also issued an opinion on Knudsen’s argument that the petitioners didn’t file the issue with the Supreme court within the required 10 days on the legal sufficiency review. The court found that while Knudsen’s memo was issued on Friday, Jan. 28, it wasn’t provided to the petitioners until Monday, Jan. 31, and the 10-day window wouldn’t have been triggered until then.

Montana law also dictates that ballot initiative language be “title and impartial explanation of the proposed ballot issue in plain, easily understood language and may not be arguments or written so as to create prejudice for or against the issue,” according to Montana Code Annotated.

Ballot initiative petitioners work with the Legislative Services Division to craft language that meets those requirements. When Knudsen found I-24 legally deficient, he also revised the initiative’s language to clarify that a ballot initiative granting ORW designation bypasses the currently existing ORW review process, which includes local government consultation, review of social and economic impacts and an environmental impact statement. Knudsen said he changed this language because the original language was not sufficiently plain and easy to understand.

I-24’s petitioners argued to the court that this amendment made the language unclear and was intended to dissuade voters from approving the initiative.

The court ruled that Knudsen’s amendment was “confusing and convoluted” and instead provided its own language for the initiative that outlined the ORW designation area, stated that Montana could not issue discharge permits that resulted in adverse temporary or permanent change in water quality, and clarified that the initiative bypassed the current ORW review process.

In response to the court’s rulings, Montana Department of Justice Communications Director Kyler Nerison issued the following statement:

“The state Supreme Court agreed with the substantive points of the Attorney General’s legal review: this proposal is an attempt to bypass the normal review process and it would be a taking of private property without compensation to the owners – something that is blatantly unconstitutional.

“Instead of coming to this obvious conclusion, the Supreme Court justices engaged in legal gymnastics to align with radical environmentalists and maneuver toward an outcome that even two liberal Democrat governors rejected. This proposal is an attack on businesses and private property rights and the state Supreme Court’s decision to allow it to proceed will have dangerous implications in every corner of Montana.”

Gallatin Wildlife Association President Clint Nagel said he’s pleased with the Supreme Court’s rulings.

“I also think we, as citizens, as part of the public, have a right to petition our government,” he told EBS on March 16. “And that’s what this was about is taking that right and coming up with this petition on trying to get the waters of the Gallatin River and the Madison River designated as an outstanding resource water … And I think that people have a right to make a statement in that regard. And I don’t think the attorney general has the right to take that away from the people.”

I-24 can now continue the process of being approved for the ballot, which includes gathering signatures from 5 percent of the total number of qualified voters in Montana, including 5 percent of the voters in each of 34 legislative house districts.

You want to see housing prices rise, slap a building moratorium on Big Sky. In general I support the idea of Ballot Initiatives and greater protection for our rivers, streams and lakes. This is using a sledge hammer to kill ants and if this passes the Lawyers will make millions.

[Shredeagle]

Just seeing that picture now Bunion. It was those lines off the high point on lookers right - you can't really see them because they are facing back to the north. Anyway, one guy made some fast turns down the chute at the top and pulled over as his slough cascaded over huge cliffs. Then got into a thin section where he proceeded to point it and casually launch a huge air out of the bottom into a perfect landing. It was awesome.

Nice pic Bobby. Jealous - I knew it was going to be awesome yesterday. I've been trying to figure out a cool way to link those airs together on the north facing side of the ravine. Your pic is what I needed. Hopefully the snow doesn't suck tomorrow !!

[Bunion 2020]

This is not them.....

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

You want to see housing prices rise, slap a building moratorium on Big Sky. In general I support the idea of Ballot Initiatives and greater protection for our rivers, streams and lakes. This is using a sledge hammer to kill ants and if this passes the Lawyers will make millions.

I don't like BI's but that's a discussion for some other thread but yeah, CH and other big boys will be whipping out the checkbook again to make problems go away.

[Bunion 2020]

That is one way of looking at it. I view it as Big Sky having that come to Jesus moment that has been lacking for so long. That means, deal with your shit or stop making so much of it.

So I hope rather than a token payoff to shut people up it is a matter of, "hey, maybe its time to do things on a large scale and right for a change." Time will tell.

On another note, I have successfully managed to decouple from CH/LML as a client and without burning any bridges. And there was much rejoicing.

[toast2266]

You want to see housing prices rise, slap a building moratorium on Big Sky. In general I support the idea of Ballot Initiatives and greater protection for our rivers, streams and lakes. This is using a sledge hammer to kill ants and if this passes the Lawyers will make millions.

I don't know any of the details about that, but I do know that Austin Knudson is a goober, and he can't hold his liquor. He barfed on me once.

[Bunion 2020]

All I know about Knudsen is he has as punchable a face as Tucker Carlson and his politics usually drive his decisions.

[BobbyBill]

Met up with Whiteroom Guardian and spun a Hidden Gully lap as he was giving a couple of Bridger first timers a look around. Thanks for the run!

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

And Stem gets the 'gram.