2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Well, it *is* move-in week at MSU. And because of "The Issue" it is way more drawn out this year than in the past. We will be coming into town with CO plates on Thursday and not leaving until Monday (because one kid has a move-in "appointment" Thu evening and the other one is not until Sunday morning).

But in the local folks' defense - they don't know if any of those out of state plates are:

1) MSU students/families
2) Newly-arrived residents that haven't gotten MT plates yet
3) Complete douchebags that are trying to "escape" their Midwestern/Southern Hellhole.

Just ten years ago move in weekend meant a bunch of trucks hauling stock trailers full of kid's stuff.

[Hodgge]

That is true, move-in time is always filled with out of state plates. Fuck I remember how much I loved that time of year when I was at college in Missoula. Checking out the new crop of freshman girls, the bars were crazy (drinking age 19), giant blowouts at the frat houses every night for anybody who wanted to drink free beer. Money in the pocket from working all summer, just nothing to look forward to but a great year of partying, skiing, and studying (in that order). Makes me nostalgic. I don't think I could live in Missoula or Bozeman with all the hot college girls running around these days. I'd go nuts.

Unofficial Networks once called the MSU girls a bunch of "tundra wookies", but I'd respectfully disagree.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2012/...ool-education/

[yeahman]

Unofficial Networks once called the MSU girls a bunch of "tundra wookies", but I'd respectfully disagree.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2012/...ool-education/

Ha, yeah, nowadays that is certainly not the case. Although BITD I think Missoula definitely ruled in the hot-girls category. Seemed like everybody from outside Montana wanted to go to college in Missoula and turn into a granola. Interesting how that's flip-flopped now and UM is struggling while MSU thrives. I have one daughter who wants to go to MSU and the other UM.

[BobbyBill]

Interesting how that's flip-flopped now and UM is struggling while MSU thrives.

Jon Krakauer

[East2West]

Bridger season pass sales cap rumor is still going around so I bought my pass so I don't miss out. Gonna be a shit show if all the Big Sky defectors and new arrivals are planning on skiing at Bridger...

Take this with a huge grain of salt but this is what I heard. Was told BB won’t cut sales early vs Big which was forced to limit because of third parties involved. Supposedly there is are other parties that hold season pass money until opening day and there is an insurance aspect tied to all of this. Big was forced to limit in the event there was no season or limited operation. Because BB is a co-op or non-profit they have more lax rules and their third party will cover and entire refund if needed. Again, this could all be bullshit.

[blackalps]

Ha, yeah, nowadays that is certainly not the case. Although BITD I think Missoula definitely ruled in the hot-girls category. Seemed like everybody from outside Montana wanted to go to college in Missoula and turn into a granola. Interesting how that's flip-flopped now and UM is struggling while MSU thrives. I have one daughter who wants to go to MSU and the other UM.

from my travels this year, it seems that Flagstaff is currently the spot for hot young granola college girls. or was, pre-covid.

[anotherVTskibum]

Funny. I've never lived anywhere that wasn't cold and snowy, but outside of the usual brutal cold snaps we get here, I think winter is pretty easy going. The gray, cold, humid days you get elsewhere for months on end are really brutal.

I'll take Montana cold over Maine cold any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not only is the snow better, but the reduced humidity doesn't suck the heat out of you nearly as quick. There may be more brutally cold days in Montana (although the average temps look slightly more pleasant), but there's a lot more sun, too.

I said this in one of the other related threads, but I think the "that house is going to be back on the market in a year" theory is probably correct for a non-trivial amount of the places that have been bought up recently. One of the places near here that sat on the market for over a year finally sold; it's located between the grocery store and the senior housing, has no yard space, and looked pretty nice in the listing (as in, "wait, that's that one?" once I looked at the map). I have to wonder if the buyer saw it or not, or just figures that the downtown location and price per bedroom was right. There have been also places selling around here that I wouldn't want to own without having a reliable chainsaw handy, and I'm not sure how many of the city folk are prepared to cut their way out of their own driveway after the next windstorm.

Some will just sit on mostly empty houses because they can. Others will get pissed off when they realized they overpaid and then got caught in a bind when they realized they really did prefer the city. Some, I'm sure, will end up saying "WTF didn't we move here sooner?", and I figure we'll all (mostly) get along with most of those folks.

Take this with a huge grain of salt but this is what I heard. Was told BB won’t cut sales early vs Big which was forced to limit because of third parties involved. Supposedly there is are other parties that hold season pass money until opening day and there is an insurance aspect tied to all of this. Big was forced to limit in the event there was no season or limited operation. Because BB is a co-op or non-profit they have more lax rules and their third party will cover and entire refund if needed. Again, this could all be bullshit.

I can't speak to any of the specifics for those resorts, but the generally accepted accounting principles for ski areas require that they treat pass money as a liability (kinda like a gift card sold) when received, and then recognize it as income during the course of the season (I believe there are various ways to do that, the simplest being equally across the length of the season and the more-accurate for reporting to recognize it based on days passholders actually ski and the number of days per passholder). If there's some limit on total financial liability that overlords, lenders, or such are willing to deal with, that could be a reason to limit early pass sales.

[total_immortal]

Take this with a huge grain of salt but this is what I heard. Was told BB won’t cut sales early vs Big which was forced to limit because of third parties involved. Supposedly there is are other parties that hold season pass money until opening day and there is an insurance aspect tied to all of this. Big was forced to limit in the event there was no season or limited operation. Because BB is a co-op or non-profit they have more lax rules and their third party will cover and entire refund if needed. Again, this could all be bullshit.

I think a limit on pass sales would be more of a result of too much demand to safely run the mountain, if Big Sky doesn't sell anymore passes and Bridger stay wide open the lift line will stretch to Olsen Creek. The rumor I heard this morning (also take this with a large grain of salt because it was third hand) is that yesterday upper management decided to cap season pass sales and day tickets. The person I heard it from is well connected so I won't be too surprised if it is true, but until I hear directly from someone at Bridger I'm skeptical.

[RTR]

how do Big Sky and Bridger compare to Front Range, JH, LCC skiing? may have a job in Bozeman.

^^^Your original question, for the record...

I'm not a native [to Colorado]... I lived in Houston and worked in Austin. Lasted about 10 months, couldn't get out of there fast enough... I think CO is ok. Love things about it, dislike things about it, dont really hate anything about it except the attitudes you get out on the trail or on the lift sometimes, and i70 when I was stuck being a weekend warrior last season... ...I like it lot better outside of Denver. There's nothing really "wrong" with it, per se, it's just never felt like a good fit. But I don't smoke weed or drink microbrewery beer. or any beer.

It could just be that I'm the closest thing to a 'Montana Archetype,' of yourself that you'll find on this board. I also lived/worked in Austin, TX; only lasted 12 months. I lived in SLC and skied LCC for 8 years and my thoughts of that place echo yours of CO.

Bunion is my neighbor (which is my only claim to fame on this thread) and every other crusty, crotchety [insert desired adjective] mag I've met, I've really liked. You'll find great people in Montana. And you'll find some assholes (they seem to be everywhere, no matter where you go on this blue orb.) The only place that can compare to the friendliness of the people here that I've encountered, on average, is where I'm from (small town Idaho). I'm told this is changing slowly as more people move in.

More thoughts for you to consider:

1. There are a lot of career options to be had relative to the (smaller) population, likely due to the growth. But both my better half and I took substantial paycuts as well as wittingly over-paying for our humble house in Four Corners to move here. The only exception to the likely paycut might be if you're a Contractor with some skills.
2. The mountain biking is much harder to get after... more driving and spread out, more research, more grizzly bear encounters, less established trails/scene/etc.
3. The whitewater here is a solid A+ if you're a class V kayaker and a solid B- if you're anything else. If you need the whitewater to be stellar, consider Missoula, Salmon, Boise, McCall, Grangeville, etc.
4. The fishing is superlative and it'll take me decades to grow into the fishing possibilities.
5. The bowhunting/hunting opportunities may be the best in the country (aside from Alaska) unless you strictly hunt turkeys and whitetails (I'm thinking mid-westerners, Yanks, or southerners.)
6. The climbing is okay... it's not going to hold a candle to Colorado.
7. Your original question: The skiing won't be as good as LCC of JH (I can't speak for the Front Range). Big Sky has as much terrain as LCC with significantly less snow and colder temperatures. Obviously, the BC access is less ubiquitous than a place like Utah. It'll take more effort to get to the goods (see #2, above). But admittedly, I've skinned up very little since moving here.
8. Dirt biking is good (not as good as West Slope or Southern Utah). 'Off-roading' won't hold a candle to West Slope or Moab area.
9. A lot of Montanans will say that the restaurant options are great in Bozeman/Big Sky but coming from a big city, prepare to be disappointed. (Not that big of a black eye, IMO.) But read on to #10, below...
10. You say you don't drink beer. Neither did I. But if there's one thing Montana does gastronomically well, it's brewing quality beer. Cheers!
11. If you're single, there's a good chance that you can find a girl that's tougher than you are... plenty of pretty ones and they do all seem to drink beer (see #10, above.)
12. The music scene is seriously lacking in Bozeman compared to the places you've mentioned, so adjust your expectations accordingly. That said, Missoula's is decent and Logjam Presents is currently building a venue on North 7th.
13. If you're not an asshole, my experience tells me you'll be welcomed with open arms.

[skaredshtles]

That is true, move-in time is always filled with out of state plates. Fuck I remember how much I loved that time of year when I was at college in Missoula. Checking out the new crop of freshman girls, the bars were crazy (drinking age 19), giant blowouts at the frat houses every night for anybody who wanted to drink free beer. Money in the pocket from working all summer, just nothing to look forward to but a great year of partying, skiing, and studying (in that order). Makes me nostalgic. I don't think I could live in Missoula or Bozeman with all the hot college girls running around these days. I'd go nuts.

Goddam you're old.

[Bunion 2020]

If anyone has a line on some decent work going through Fall, I’d be interested.

My career fell apart due to “the situation,” and my unemployment ran out about a month ago.

I’m taking an EMT course in September, and hoping I can use that in some fashion, whether it’s in a hospital / clinic / ambulance / ski patrol.

If you do any kind of construction work or have a PM background, message me.

Edit to add:

I think a limit on pass sales would be more of a result of too much demand to safely run the mountain, if Big Sky doesn't sell anymore passes and Bridger stay wide open the lift line will stretch to Olsen Creek. The rumor I heard this morning (also take this with a large grain of salt because it was third hand) is that yesterday upper management decided to cap season pass sales and day tickets. The person I heard it from is well connected so I won't be too surprised if it is true, but until I hear directly from someone at Bridger I'm skeptical.

My inside track for things at BB has expired. BB has sufficient funds to refund each and every dollar they take in for 2020 seasons pass sale, period.

Big Sky? Totally different story???

I have heard that Big Sky will be releasing chamber of commerce/employee passes for sale to the local business's pretty soon, jury is still out of whether or not they will sell more seasons passes at any price.

With Big 10 and Pac 12 Football cancelled I remain skeptical that we will have a ski season and at any rate it will be far from normal.

[yeahman]

Jon Krakauer

Seriously. I could slug that fucker for calling that book "Missoula," when it could have taken place in any college town in America. I'm a fan of his, but I can't forgive him for doing that to a place I love so much.

[Leshphilling77]

As a UM grad I’m not sure if I’ll ever actually bring myself to read that book. Part of me will want to sometimes but I’ve never pulled the trigger on purchasing it.

[blackalps]

^^^Your original question, for the record...



It could just be that I'm the closest thing to a 'Montana Archetype,' of yourself that you'll find on this board. I also lived/worked in Austin, TX; only lasted 12 months. I lived in SLC and skied LCC for 8 years and my thoughts of that place echo yours of CO.

Bunion is my neighbor (which is my only claim to fame on this thread) and every other crusty, crotchety [insert desired adjective] mag I've met, I've really liked. You'll find great people in Montana. And you'll find some assholes (they seem to be everywhere, no matter where you go on this blue orb.) The only place that can compare to the friendliness of the people here that I've encountered, on average, is where I'm from (small town Idaho). I'm told this is changing slowly as more people move in.

More thoughts for you to consider:

1. There are a lot of career options to be had relative to the (smaller) population, likely due to the growth. But both my better half and I took substantial paycuts as well as wittingly over-paying for our humble house in Four Corners to move here. The only exception to the likely paycut might be if you're a Contractor with some skills.
2. The mountain biking is much harder to get after... more driving and spread out, more research, more grizzly bear encounters, less established trails/scene/etc.
3. The whitewater here is a solid A+ if you're a class V kayaker and a solid B- if you're anything else. If you need the whitewater to be stellar, consider Missoula, Salmon, Boise, McCall, Grangeville, etc.
4. The fishing is superlative and it'll take me decades to grow into the fishing possibilities.
5. The bowhunting/hunting opportunities may be the best in the country (aside from Alaska) unless you strictly hunt turkeys and whitetails (I'm thinking mid-westerners, Yanks, or southerners.)
6. The climbing is okay... it's not going to hold a candle to Colorado.
7. Your original question: The skiing won't be as good as LCC of JH (I can't speak for the Front Range). Big Sky has as much terrain as LCC with significantly less snow and colder temperatures. Obviously, the BC access is less ubiquitous than a place like Utah. It'll take more effort to get to the goods (see #2, above). But admittedly, I've skinned up very little since moving here.
8. Dirt biking is good (not as good as West Slope or Southern Utah). 'Off-roading' won't hold a candle to West Slope or Moab area.
9. A lot of Montanans will say that the restaurant options are great in Bozeman/Big Sky but coming from a big city, prepare to be disappointed. (Not that big of a black eye, IMO.) But read on to #10, below...
10. You say you don't drink beer. Neither did I. But if there's one thing Montana does gastronomically well, it's brewing quality beer. Cheers!
11. If you're single, there's a good chance that you can find a girl that's tougher than you are... plenty of pretty ones and they do all seem to drink beer (see #10, above.)
12. The music scene is seriously lacking in Bozeman compared to the places you've mentioned, so adjust your expectations accordingly. That said, Missoula's is decent and Logjam Presents is currently building a venue on North 7th.
13. If you're not an asshole, my experience tells me you'll be welcomed with open arms.

thanks. that's all helpful. How is the bike park at Big Sky, btw? not that I need to ride any more park after my experience at Angel Fire two months ago.


Dunno if Bozeman is going to work out. I've never seen a place that has such an anti-pet rental market. Anything I can find that will allow my big ol dog is way out of my price range.

[yeahman]

As a UM grad I’m not sure if I’ll ever actually bring myself to read that book. Part of me will want to sometimes but I’ve never pulled the trigger on purchasing it.

I felt the same way, but I gave it a try. Got through about a quarter of it and stopped reading. Partly I felt I already knew everything that was coming, and frankly it's just kind of depressing stuff. Also, I felt his portrayal of Missoula as a rabidly Griz-obsessed town was less than accurate. Kind of how some people think Helena is all about politics, when in reality that is a very small part of what goes on here. I worked for 15 years in construction in Missoula, and most of the people I worked with couldn't give two shits about the Griz. Sure that element exists, but not to the degree he made out IMO, like a whole community was conspiring to cover up these rapes for the sake of college football. It's awful what happened to those women, but it was a few people who were responsible, not the whole fucking town. Yet that book had a detrimental effect on a lot of innocent people--which is ironic to say the least.

Anyway, /rant.

[Micol]

the day i got this i was sitting on it and was asked to get off the pool table for a minute...i said what u doin with those? ....boom i got two.. that was 94-97 ish.....obviously others here with earlier reference points can cite less populus times ...but for me , this was my early time...i was fish bumming around until 98 when i got married in lower sw quadrant....all the towns back then were awesome as i remember it...real estate seemed out of grasp even then...but sitting on sidewalk in front of crystal poking my eye with a bottle trying to get a sip, tent on the football field, rockin R before the , this was my time... as of next wed i bid thee farewell....



last two seasons have been fun....thanks all i crossed paths with...

[Bunion 2020]

've never seen a place that has such an anti-pet rental market.

Forgot all about that particular hurdle. Another facet of a tight rental market.

[Talisman]

this was my time... as of next wed i bid thee farewell....

last two seasons have been fun....thanks all i crossed paths with...

You will be missed. All the best for your next adventure.

[Micol]

You will be missed. All the best for your next adventure.

thanks
range was great

[MontuckyFried]

Although BITD I think Missoula definitely ruled in the hot-girls category.

True that!
Source: I married a UM grad.

[usdatele]

^^^Your original question, for the record...



It could just be that I'm the closest thing to a 'Montana Archetype,' of yourself that you'll find on this board. I also lived/worked in Austin, TX; only lasted 12 months. I lived in SLC and skied LCC for 8 years and my thoughts of that place echo yours of CO.

Bunion is my neighbor (which is my only claim to fame on this thread) and every other crusty, crotchety [insert desired adjective] mag I've met, I've really liked. You'll find great people in Montana. And you'll find some assholes (they seem to be everywhere, no matter where you go on this blue orb.) The only place that can compare to the friendliness of the people here that I've encountered, on average, is where I'm from (small town Idaho). I'm told this is changing slowly as more people move in.

More thoughts for you to consider:

1. There are a lot of career options to be had relative to the (smaller) population, likely due to the growth. But both my better half and I took substantial paycuts as well as wittingly over-paying for our humble house in Four Corners to move here. The only exception to the likely paycut might be if you're a Contractor with some skills.
2. The mountain biking is much harder to get after... more driving and spread out, more research, more grizzly bear encounters, less established trails/scene/etc.
3. The whitewater here is a solid A+ if you're a class V kayaker and a solid B- if you're anything else. If you need the whitewater to be stellar, consider Missoula, Salmon, Boise, McCall, Grangeville, etc.
4. The fishing is superlative and it'll take me decades to grow into the fishing possibilities.
5. The bowhunting/hunting opportunities may be the best in the country (aside from Alaska) unless you strictly hunt turkeys and whitetails (I'm thinking mid-westerners, Yanks, or southerners.)
6. The climbing is okay... it's not going to hold a candle to Colorado.
7. Your original question: The skiing won't be as good as LCC of JH (I can't speak for the Front Range). Big Sky has as much terrain as LCC with significantly less snow and colder temperatures. Obviously, the BC access is less ubiquitous than a place like Utah. It'll take more effort to get to the goods (see #2, above). But admittedly, I've skinned up very little since moving here.
8. Dirt biking is good (not as good as West Slope or Southern Utah). 'Off-roading' won't hold a candle to West Slope or Moab area.
9. A lot of Montanans will say that the restaurant options are great in Bozeman/Big Sky but coming from a big city, prepare to be disappointed. (Not that big of a black eye, IMO.) But read on to #10, below...
10. You say you don't drink beer. Neither did I. But if there's one thing Montana does gastronomically well, it's brewing quality beer. Cheers!
11. If you're single, there's a good chance that you can find a girl that's tougher than you are... plenty of pretty ones and they do all seem to drink beer (see #10, above.)
12. The music scene is seriously lacking in Bozeman compared to the places you've mentioned, so adjust your expectations accordingly. That said, Missoula's is decent and Logjam Presents is currently building a venue on North 7th.
13. If you're not an asshole, my experience tells me you'll be welcomed with open arms.

This is spot on.

Couple things to add

BB is tight and techy with lift lines and hike to terrain. Be ready to shoulder your skis or roll with a backpack. And some seasons it really is -20 for weeks at a time.

Community is being dilluted but if you're a good guy that likes to get out and most importantly isn't self aggrandizing and self serving, theres tons of like minded ppl to meet, even if u domt drink beer.

If u do choose bozo...
https://g.co/kgs/wnNpfF

On another note, anyone know of any good landscapers around?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Bronco]

Seriously. I could slug that fucker for calling that book "Missoula," when it could have taken place in any college town in America. I'm a fan of his, but I can't forgive him for doing that to a place I love so much.

I wonder if Krakauer was somehow rejected early in his career in Montana. Three Cups of Deceit and Missoula seem to be take down pieces. Too bad, he’s a good writer otherwise.

[Bunion 2020]

On another note, anyone know of any good landscapers around?

All the good ones I know are up to their asses getting sites done before the snow flies.

[yeahman]

thanks
range was great

Only got to ski with you briefly but it's been nice having you around these parts and in the thread. Don't be a stranger.

[Micol]

I wonder if Krakauer was somehow rejected early in his career in Montana. Three Cups of Deceit and Missoula seem to be take down pieces. Too bad, he’s a good writer otherwise.

ok, now im curious, anyone got any cliff notes on these MT Krackuer books? longest form journalism i read is New Yorker..... lol jk, longest form is Ski Journal....ok,so i jus look at pics, so not really...longest form...is my apple feed...actually fall asleep to it, so longest form i read are these tgr posts.... and really all pics r better...like here's how i read these...

not your first time, multiple offender, been in the lot too long anyway, sorry if my bike smashes ur bummer, you're an azzhole


no current drywall work goin on....no respect, you're a fukin tool


here longer than standard vacation, time 4me to sell/move


short term rental....see previous caption.....


thank you sir, may i not have another, see previous caption


damn this was sweet tho








tl/dr




.