Screw Lengths for Threaded Inserts

[la_grave]

Sorry for OT but since I have contacted BF at least five times without the slightest response…

Has anyone negotiated a volume discount with them? How many inserts must I order for that to be an option for them?

[Muggydude]

But then again I measured some at 9mm protruding, some at 8mm and some at 7mm...

[Spyderjon]

But then again I measured some at 9mm protruding, some at 8mm and some at 7mm...

The industry/din standard protrusion/depth for a binding screw is 9mm from the underside of the binding for a regular screw & 7mm for a junior binding, however that's immaterial when installed inserts.

A QK insert measures 8.6mm in length so it can be installed to the same depth in the ski as a regular binding screw using a 9-9.5mm length drill bit of appropriate diameter, usually 1/4". The QK inserts have an inner thread depth of 6.2mm so a 5mm machine screw protrudence from the underside of the binding is perfect to avoid the chance of the screw bottoming out. If your inserts are installed slightly below the surface of the ski then the screws can be a tad longer. I don't know the exact specs for BF inserts but I've installed them perfectly with my QK Pro Installation Kit so they've got to be so close that it makes no difference.

[Spyderjon]

Sorry for OT but since I have contacted BF at least five times without the slightest response…
Has anyone negotiated a volume discount with them? How many inserts must I order for that to be an option for them?

If you're in Europe as your username suggests then I can easily ship you QK inserts, installation kits, VC3 threadlock & mounting screw sets. And I do volume discounts. I've currently got a good few thou inserts in stock with more on the way. Just email me your requirements & shipping address to jon @ thepisteoffice.com

[Alpinord]

For G3 IONs, I found the Binding Freedom Pozi 14mm Smallheads worked for the toes and the 10mm Lowheads were just shy of meeting the minimum 4mm depth. I cut down 16mm Pozi Lowheads to 12mm which appears to be the sweet spot. Philips 12mm panheads should also work. Confirmation by others would be good.

[meter-man]

Sooo, if Slidewright doesn't have the screws I need, where do folks suggest I go?? Any online recs?

Looking for: 16mm smallheads (for a Plum toe plus 6.4 mm B&D shim) EDIT: Slidewright's page http://www.slidewright.com/binding-f...s-10-packs.php

Second EDIT: My understanding is that Binding Freedom is no longer operating....correct me if I'm wrong and folks are getting prompt responses.

[vostok4]

I contacted BF in December, ordered screws, had them shipped and all, so it seems to me like they're very much operating... maybe just hitting the slopes?

[Alpinord]

Sooo, if Slidewright doesn't have the screws I need, where do folks suggest I go?? Any online recs?

Looking for: 16mm smallheads (for a Plum toe plus 6.4 mm B&D shim) EDIT: Slidewright's page http://www.slidewright.com/binding-f...s-10-packs.php

Second EDIT: My understanding is that Binding Freedom is no longer operating....correct me if I'm wrong and folks are getting prompt responses.

Sorry. Powder and ski days trump getting the inventory posted correctly. We just received a bunch of BF screws and have other ss machine screw size not listed. If needing odd sizes, drop a line via direct email.

Regarding Binding Freedom in general, it is fully operational under SVST.

[Alpinord]

Here's a 'cheat sheet' that shows available Binding Freedom posi-drive machine screws. Click on the image for a full size PDF you can print.



(Note: Pozi Small-head sizes 10 & 16mm are no longer being manufactured or available after our current supply sells out. Substitute with pozi-Flat-head screws.)

[Alpinord]

Anyone know the machine screws required for Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland?

[Spyderjon]

Anyone know the machine screws required for Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland?

16no. 10mm flat heads*

* this is the spec using my proper metric spec M5 machine screws with no.2 pozi heads which have a lower profile than your no.3 heads.

[Alpinord]

Thanks Jon. Happy New Year!

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Can someone please clarify what rear heel screws are needed for kiwi-color Look Pivot 14? I purchased 16mm without double-checking and they are really short. So, do I need 18mm or 20mm or what?
BindingFreedom says:
Pivot 14 (13/14 and newer)____ while FKS14_______while Pivot 18 with same heel (?)
8 - 16mm flat heads_____ 8 - 18mm flat heads______12 – 10mm low heads
4 - 10mm low heads_____ 4 - 10mm low heads______4 – 20mm low heads
4- 16mm low heads_____ 4 - 16mm low heads

[Muggydude]

Measure how much the 16mm stick out, and go from there. Believe you’re looking for 4-5mm of stick out

[jdadour]

Can someone please clarify what rear heel screws are needed for kiwi-color Look Pivot 14? I purchased 16mm without double-checking and they are really short. So, do I need 18mm or 20mm or what?
BindingFreedom says:
Pivot 14 (13/14 and newer)____ while FKS14_______while Pivot 18 with same heel (?)
8 - 16mm flat heads_____ 8 - 18mm flat heads______12 – 10mm low heads
4 - 10mm low heads_____ 4 - 10mm low heads______4 – 20mm low heads
4- 16mm low heads_____ 4 - 16mm low heads

Use those 16mm screws for your CAST toes. Go with the 20mm for the heel as indicated for the Pivot 18. i recognized a while ago that there website was wrong when i noticed they were too short.

[birdboatboy]

16no. 10mm flat heads*

* this is the spec using my proper metric spec M5 machine screws with no.2 pozi heads which have a lower profile than your no.3 heads.

I'm about to mount up some Salomon MTN (Atomic Backlands).

To clarify, you used "off the shelf" M5x10mm screws with 9.2mm head diameters and they have worked okay? (Example screw below)



Has anyone mounted these with the BindingFreedom screws and if so, what did you use? I would assume Pozi-Flathead 10mm but I haven't seen confirmation of that. Does the 10mm head diameter fit, or does it need to be ground down?

[Spyderjon]

I'm about to mount up some Salomon MTN (Atomic Backlands).

To clarify, you used "off the shelf" M5x10mm screws with 9.2mm head diameters and they have worked okay? (Example screw below)


.

Yep, an off the shelf M5 x 10mm flat head is perfect. A Philips slot isn't that strong so I only use the much stronger no.2 pozi slot.

[birdboatboy]

Yep, an off the shelf M5 x 10mm flat head is perfect. A Philips slot isn't that strong so I only use the much stronger no.2 pozi slot.

Great, thanks for clarifying. Pozi-heads are pretty rare in the US, so it isn't easy to source what you purchased.

I'm working with BindingFreedom/SVST to confirm what works for this binding and will report back. I think that the biggest issue is that the toe piece holes have a deep counterbore that is only Ø9.4 mm, so the Ø10mm flat head BindingFreedom screws will have to be reduced in diameter. Future update coming.

[ExoticSkis]

Has anyone tried the pre-packaged screw kits offered by QuiverKillers yet?
https://quiverkiller.com/products/fa...its-by-binding

They list fastener kits by binding...hopefully tested and eliminating the guesswork and grinding experiments...
We're looking to do inserts for Salomon / Atomic SHIFTs... with the silly little countersunk flathead button thingie on the toepiece...

[Spyderjon]

Has anyone tried the pre-packaged screw kits offered by QuiverKillers yet?
https://quiverkiller.com/products/fa...its-by-binding

They list fastener kits by binding...hopefully tested and eliminating the guesswork and grinding experiments...
We're looking to do inserts for Salomon / Atomic SHIFTs... with the silly little countersunk flathead button thingie on the toepiece...

Here's the Shift screw spec using proper M5 machine screws with the 9mm head diameter as pictured above by birdboatboy :

Toe stud: 2no. 8mm flat head with head diameter reduced to 8mm
Mid toe: 4no. 14mm flat head
Rear toe: 4no. 10mm flat heads
Heel: 8no. 14mm flat heads (earlier production might need 16mm - see posts below)

The 9mm head diameter fits perfectly in the countersunk recesses in the bindings. However, on the toe stud the standard 9mm diameter head sits a bit proud (which in itself isn't an issue) however it does get hung up on the two raised stake marks around the perimeter on the stud that the factory put in to secure the original mounting screw. So to get the screw to sit properly within the countersunk recess of the stud the two stake marks need to either be ground out or you can reduce the head diameter of the insert screw to 8mm so that the screw sits inside the marks. I didn't want to be take a dremel to the stud so my preference is to reduce the head diameter of the screw. I turn mine down in a lathe or you could put the screw in a drill chuck and spin it up against a grinding wheel.

[aanev]

Heel: 8no. 16mm csk

IMHO these should be 14mm pz2 CSK

I tried 16mm and it works but it tightens against the bottom of the insert. I tried 12mm and it tightens properly, but the thread is too short.

[Spyderjon]

IMHO these should be 14mm pz2 CSK

I tried 16mm and it works but it tightens against the bottom of the insert. I tried 12mm and it tightens properly, but the thread is too short.

Mmm, that's interesting. I've just opened up a few sets of Shifts and checked the heels. I've got a set left from my first delivery a couple of months ago and a 16mm csk gives 5mm of protrusion (and that's when I first measured the screws) but on Shifts that arrived just yesterday the same screw is protruding 6.75mm - which as you say will be too long.

[Sashko]

I'm about to mount up some Salomon MTN (Atomic Backlands).

To clarify, you used "off the shelf" M5x10mm screws with 9.2mm head diameters and they have worked okay?

Did you manage to pull out stock screw of that piece of metal that goes under toe piece (sorry english not my native, I don't know how it's called)? I just got them and can't do it with bare hands. Could you please share some tips&trics?

[birdboatboy]

Did you manage to pull out stock screw of that piece of metal that goes under toe piece (sorry english not my native, I don't know how it's called)? I just got them and can't do it with bare hands. Could you please share some tips&trics?

Yeah, the red piece for the Salomon MTN / Atomic Backland bindings is just an aluminum ring that snaps around a standard mounting screw. If you can't get it out by hand, open a bench vise so that it only touches the red ring, then tap on the point of the screw to get it out. You could also grab a socket that only supports the red ring and then do the same approached, it should come out pretty easily.

[birdboatboy]

Great, thanks for clarifying. Pozi-heads are pretty rare in the US, so it isn't easy to source what you purchased.

I'm working with BindingFreedom/SVST to confirm what works for this binding and will report back. I think that the biggest issue is that the toe piece holes have a deep counterbore that is only Ø9.4 mm, so the Ø10mm flat head BindingFreedom screws will have to be reduced in diameter. Future update coming.

Update, the Salomon MTN / Atomic Backlands should take qty. 18 total 10mm length Pozi-Flat Heads from Binding Freedom. The heads of all the screws should be ground down to Ø9mm to fit into the toe piece and under the heel piece as well. As mentioned above, the brake retention screw with the red ring pops apart and can be used with the Binding Freedom screws.

Looks like Binding Freedom is now updated with this info. as well. Thanks.