What's the number?

[k2skier112]

Fair enough, but you’d also learn to keep it simple, never use an Edward Jones advisor and stay the course to win.
Your mileage may vary, but it’s worked for me from an investing standpoint. I tend to ignore the personal lifestyle chatter. As evidenced that I’m currently sitting at stein Erickson lodge eating lunch with my family on a snowy day and I’m no tech bro. But I do balance experiences with saving. You are not promised tomorrow. I am not spending $200 for a snow globe though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why do you suggest to never use an Edward Jones account, does that mean any financial advisor also?

We had 6 different accounts (3 of which have multiple accounts in them) and found it nicer to have them in one basket at EJ. We pay no fees, other than what the mutual funds charge, I will never pay an advisor. On our own at 55 and 59 we accumulated 700, shooting for 1.25m to call it quits. At that point I may get out of EJ and go back to doing it myself, we've only had an EJ account for just over a year

[gravitylover]

When I was in my 40's I had a solid gig and my wife did too and we were doing alright. We had a pretty fair chance of getting out of the workforce around 60, maybe a bit earlier with a few lucky bumps but then a few months before my 50th the boss decided it was time for his sons to ruin the show and I got let go. The timing couldn't have been worse on a few levels, going into winter in a warm weather seasonal industry and approaching 50 meant it was going to be challenging to come up with something quickly. I gave it a few months and kept coming up empty so I started my own thing before the unemployment ran out. It was a super slow start but it was coming together slowly. Unfortunately at that point we were draining pretty quickly, health insurance was 25% of what I was bringing in and property taxes were 30% and with other fixed expenses we had to move money around to stay liquid and living reasonably well. Then the shit hit the fan and I had a heart attack, insurance didn't pay for A LOT of those expenses and I couldn't really work for a few months. As I got it back together the season was winding down and there wasn't much earning potential left so I sold most of what I had left invested, property taxes went up after a reassessment, the facility my father in law had to be put into went up to nearly $12k/mo (from 10) and then Covid hit and my work world crashed and my wifes new thing also fell apart. The money stopped rolling in this year almost completely and a bit over a month ago the old man reached the point that needs a part time aide at nearly $30/hr.

Because we had to sell down on so many things and it's been nothing but a constant drain for 5 years now it looks like we'll probably be working until we die. We were almost able to see the end of the tunnel...

[Conundrum]

Sorry to hear that man.

[gravitylover]

Thanks. It really just means I have to put it together again. The trick now is to figure out what the world might look like in a year so I position myself for it. It's tougher to do it at almost 55 but where there's a will... right?

[ötzi]

I don't really have any great words of wisdom but just keep on plugging man. Shit you might as well. Just don't skip those property taxes if you can posisbly help it, those bastards are heartless.

[neufox47]

Why do you suggest to never use an Edward Jones account, does that mean any financial advisor also?

We had 6 different accounts (3 of which have multiple accounts in them) and found it nicer to have them in one basket at EJ. We pay no fees, other than what the mutual funds charge, I will never pay an advisor. On our own at 55 and 59 we accumulated 700, shooting for 1.25m to call it quits. At that point I may get out of EJ and go back to doing it myself, we've only had an EJ account for just over a year

What mutual funds are they putting you in and what are they charging you. A standard trick is to give free management then steer you into high expense funds that may also underperform, but they get a kickback.

[k2skier112]

What mutual funds are they putting you in and what are they charging you. A standard trick is to give free management then steer you into high expense funds that may also underperform, but they get a kickback.

None. Using all existing funds for future funding, just in new accounts, ROTH, new 401K......

I made an error in my earlier post. I did have a financial advisor years ago, 1995. A customer of mine just got a gig as a financial advisors and sold me a life insurance policy and started my SEP in 1995. I picked out 4 American Funds and have kept them ever since. He quit a few years later, the account was passed on to a senior FA, then he retired. I went out on my own for about 15 years. The new accounts are using the same 4 American Funds, but on about 2-24-20 I took 25% of the value out of my most aggressive fund and put it in a bond fund. This was my idea and not my FA, I knew there was a bubble, just didn't realize the shit was gonna hit the fan. I have, ABALX, ABNDX, ACNFX, AGTHX AND AMECX. My FA said they were solid and never tried to sell me anything more

[El Chupacabra]

IMHO, Edward Jones and American Funds should be giant red flags. Look at your expense ratios. You can, and should, manage all this yourself at Vanguard or Fidelity.

Seemingly small % differences in costs will add up over time.

I worked at one place years ago that had their 401k set up through American Funds. When I changed jobs, I transferred over to Vanguard ASAP.

YMMV.

[k2skier112]

I'm considering going on my own. American Funds are one of the top funds, always performed great. But if I can reduce ER by going on my own to Vanguard, I will. Thanks

Just checked the ER on Am Funds .59, .62, .64 and .57. These are all close to industry average

Dividends and ER were 2 of my 4/5 main concerns when choosing funds. Not sure how I could save any $$$ by going thru Vanguard

[ncskier]

I'm considering going on my own. American Funds are one of the top funds, always performed great. But if I can reduce ER by going on my own to Vanguard, I will. Thanks

Just checked the ER on Am Funds .59, .62, .64 and .57. These are all close to industry average

Dividends and ER were 2 of my 4/5 main concerns when choosing funds. Not sure how I could save any $$$ by going thru Vanguard

Those are high. You can get 0 at fido now.
Vanguard vtsax is .04 so yeah Edward Jones really sucks and their funds are worse. You are losing half a percent which is huge over an investing lifetime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Chupacabra]

I'm considering going on my own. American Funds are one of the top funds, always performed great. But if I can reduce ER by going on my own to Vanguard, I will. Thanks

Just checked the ER on Am Funds .59, .62, .64 and .57. These are all close to industry average

Dividends and ER were 2 of my 4/5 main concerns when choosing funds. Not sure how I could save any $$$ by going thru Vanguard

Those expense ratios are ridiculously high. American Funds also is known for charging front and back end loads, which is why places like Edward Jones push them on investors.

[VTeton]

This thread is super interesting.

I laugh at the HSA as an investment/savings vehicle because the rootskier family has been maxing HSA contributions for years and we've never had a cent left over at the end of the year. I get it is still a tax benefit, but still.

I got like 35gs in my family HSA. About 25k in an index fund. Slowly add up between unused $ and gains.

[k2skier112]

Those are high. You can get 0 at fido now.
Vanguard vtsax is .04 so yeah Edward Jones really sucks and their funds are worse. You are losing half a percent which is huge over an investing lifetime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those expense ratios are ridiculously high. American Funds also is known for charging front and back end loads, which is why places like Edward Jones push them on investors.

These funds I had going into EJ. That's probably why they like them. To say American Funds "sucks" is retarded.

[AdironRider]

Adiron-how do you know $450k houses don't exist where a couple can pull in $300k a year and how do you know couples other than trust funders and techbros can't have $100k liquid, paid for cars, are maxing out their 401ks, and have no credit card debt? I'll disagree with you on both.

I’m being a bit facetious with the tech bro comment but come on man, the point is 300k household income is rare (that’s top 4 percent of all households) and if you have it, you can afford way more house than 450k (and I think that level of house where that income exists is rare also) and not be making a poor financial decision.

[Mazderati]

American Funds also is known for charging front and back end loads, which is why places like Edward Jones push them on investors.

Yup. American and UBS paid out after a class action suit for undisclosed kickbacks for pushing certain funds.

[LegoSkier]

So here’s a question. I do know rocket biology, or at least I’ve hooked my middle manager self to people who do kick ass rocket biology. I’m sitting on an ever growing pile of options grants. ISOs and NSOs. I’m 4 years out from the first expirations and nothings been exercised yet. I need a plan. Who should help me with this. Adviser? Specialist accountant? Other? What should I look for in picking this person? I’ll ask my coworkers who they go to of course but any other advice would be appreciated.

[The AD]

Like the top thread right now is some early 30's guy contemplating buying a house. Him and his wife supposedly make 300k+ plus, have over 100k for a down payment, etc, and these old fucks are telling him to just keep renting because he isn't 100% positive they will be there for 10 years. The one's that do think he should buy a house are throwing out numbers like 450k max.

That's pretty hilarious. They can easily afford twice that much.

[neufox47]

So here’s a question. I do know rocket biology, or at least I’ve hooked my middle manager self to people who do kick ass rocket biology. I’m sitting on an ever growing pile of options grants. ISOs and NSOs. I’m 4 years out from the first expirations and nothings been exercised yet. I need a plan. Who should help me with this. Adviser? Specialist accountant? Other? What should I look for in picking this person? I’ll ask my coworkers who they go to of course but any other advice would be appreciated.

You need tax planning. There can be significant AMT implications for the ISOs and you may need to space out the exercise of those options. Tax attorneys are best at tax planning, but they aren’t cheap. A good tax CPA who practices in this area should do the trick. I’d look for someone who has significant experience at handling tax planning options.

Unless you need investment advice for what to do with the money I’d stay away from a CFP / CFA. They will likely tell you that you need to exercise a lot of them soon and place that money in their hands as part of their strategy.

[Conundrum]

I’m being a bit facetious with the tech bro comment but come on man, the point is 300k household income is rare (that’s top 4 percent of all households) and if you have it, you can afford way more house than 450k (and I think that level of house where that income exists is rare also) and not be making a poor financial decision.

That's pretty hilarious. They can easily afford twice that much.

I think part of the problem with determining a number to retirement is the definition of “afford”. For some it’s credit based on future earnings, for some it’s low overhead and availability of liquidity on hand and for others, a mix.

There are plenty of opportunities across the US to make a proportionate $300k gross and mortgage a $450k house especially with work from home. The bummer is everybody is entitled to the most awesome job and the most awesome place to live so not everyone gets high wages and cheap housing and we all hate sacrifices and choices.

[shroom]

That's pretty hilarious. They can easily afford twice that much.

should we start a conversation on the impact of lending standards on your perception of what is normal? wrong thread dude. one of those jobs goes away at 1/2 or 2/3 and you’re shitting bricks at ever paying it off. you can always sell but it’s been a sellers market for a decade so maybe that will continue until our walmart bucks are worth nothing.

this is weird times for those of us that are debt averse. the modern US leadership is still begging for inequality driven inflation and credit risk out of its population. interesting to see China take steps to stop Ma from providing risky money and investments to the Chinese plebs.

[neufox47]

That's pretty hilarious. They can easily afford twice that much.

Not with $100k for a down payment. I’m not saying they should cap at $450 but I wouldn’t recommend a $900k house if you can only put 10% down.

[ncskier]

These funds I had going into EJ. That's probably why they like them. To say American Funds "sucks" is retarded.

First off calm down with the R word. Yes Edward Jones is not a good company, they’ve been sued, their “advisors” are nothing more than shills for their terrible expensive funds and they charge you hidden fees.
It’s your money but you seem to act like I’m personally attacking your intellect. Edward Jones spends hundreds of millions to essentially dupe otherwise smart people.
If you value your money and you see an etf or mutual fund as nothing more than a commodity, you’d move to something basic like vanguard, fidelity or a even blackrock etf like ITOT, at fidelity.
The drag of .5-.6 more in fees over decades is enormous.
If you put in 250k in an Edward Jones total market mutual fund and averaged 6.5% after fees for 25 years only contributing $100 per month you’d have roughly $1,760,260 at retirement.
If you purchased the same type of fund at Fido or vanguard and averaged 7% after fees for 25 years and contributing the same $100 per month you’d have 2,020,009.
So if you don’t think you want an extra $260,000 for doing nothing more than watching your fees, that’s for you to decide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glademaster]

Oh for sure, I just think a lot of the boglehead dudes really have selective memories from when they were younger.

Like the top thread right now is some early 30's guy contemplating buying a house. Him and his wife supposedly make 300k+ plus, have over 100k for a down payment, etc, and these old fucks are telling him to just keep renting because he isn't 100% positive they will be there for 10 years. The one's that do think he should buy a house are throwing out numbers like 450k max. Like 450k houses exist anywhere near a place where two professionals bring down 150k+ each. Nevermind the mortgage on that with their down payment is under 36k a year or barely over 10% piti.

You can tell he's read the forum because he is scared of maintenance costs on a 450k house with his income. That household makes more in 2 weeks than almost any home repair outside of a new roof will cost.

There is certainly some great info there, but I think the bogleheads forum tends to ebb a little to conservative for most realistic situations.

For example, if you followed their advice to a T, you should never buy a house unless you have 25% plus for a down payment (for the average house in the US that is 75k), are fully funding both your wife and your own retirement plans (thats 39k a year), have a paid off car (lets say 25k), and zero credit card debt. I'm sorry, but if you can afford all of that already you've already won the game.

Those qualifications basically make it impossible to buy a starter house for basically anyone but a trust funder or a tech bro millionaire, which is basically no one statistically. Not even a mid-thirties doctor could swing that.

They also think the 4% rule is entirely way to risky, nevermind it has proven to outlast almost all retirement fund situations 99% of the time, and you should really just plan on withdrawing 2-3% a year. I always chuckle at this considering RMD's starting at like 72 are bit over 3.5% and only increase from there.

I think you just found where my dad hangs out on the internet.

That's him in a nutshell, particularly the "don't buy a house unless you're goddamn certain you're going to spend at least a decade in it." That shit haunts me when I think back on the places I've lived over the last 10 years, and the opportunities I had to buy into those markets at the time.

[MiddleOfNight]

I would love to know the answer because healthcare in the US is fucking pathetic and a huDge impediment to early retirement. Apart from a part time job that includes benefits (does that even count as retirement?), the options seem to be a) pay out the ass or b) manipulate your income stream or taxes to show minimal income. My mom retired a few years early and her monthly bill on the open market was around $700.

exactly.

I planned on almost 20k/yr for 2 of us in insurance. Annual fixed costs at 31k (taxes, med insurance, home insurance, ditch/water system reserve) so this doesn't include oh i dunno, food, vodka, recreation etc? Call it 50k/annually, barring no major expenses? More?
So doing the math on what that means in terms of OP's question 'what the number' .. retirement before 65 unpossible.
And that's ok, maybe just leave this trade for one that 'sucks and pays less' at some point.

[El Chupacabra]

Biden’s election should mean the US will move to strengthen the ACA, and hopefully provide a public option. This should make health insurance more affordable going forward, which should help planning for retirement at pre- age 65.

I know that's a lot of shoulds, but it's at least a positive sign at the national level. Much better than the last four years' efforts to undermine the ACA.

There are several early retirement websites discussing how to manage your taxable income under the current ACA pricing system.