What's the number?

[AdironRider]

What if the kids boomerang? Quite common these days.

Thats only if you let it happen.

My parents made it clear that at 18 if I wasnt in school I was on my own. I made it, and know plenty of other folks who did as well.

I also have friends who parents welcomed them back in with open arms with no ramifications. They are all still working dead end jobs and living at home still, and were closer to 30 now.

All depends on what the parents choose.

[jack shit]

Thats only if you let it happen.

My parents made it clear that at 18 if I wasnt in school I was on my own. I made it, and know plenty of other folks who did as well.

I also have friends who parents welcomed them back in with open arms with no ramifications. They are all still working dead end jobs and living at home still, and were closer to 30 now.

All depends on what the parents choose.

My theory is that my home is always open to them if they need it. Shit happens in life. I want them to know that no matter what, I got their back.

[GiBo]

What if the kids boomerang? Quite common these days.

I may have couch space, maybe not. I won't be destitute. I'll have a decent retirement income. As long as they get a job, they can stay wherever I am. Or they can go to their mom's. That'll be just another thing to figurer out, I suppose.

[XXX-er]

How I actualy do it, retired at 49 with zero plans and zero clue I just had no debt & I saved 10% also the DB pension means I never made that much $ but the pay off is NOW

I now make <40 K a yr on the pension & odd jobs, last yr I took half my 250K in cash (which wasnt making shit for interest) & assets and bought a house with a suite which is paying for the house and I bought a cheap new 4x4 ranger, I got the skis/bikes toys and if anything they just keep getting nicer, I have never budgeted for anything all i know is so far my bank account is still creeping up

I am in canada so HC is universal and I still have a supplemental HC account from the corporate gig that I am too healthy to spend BUT I must spend the $ or it drops from the account so every year its new prescription rayban wayfarers and I am collecting the whole set ...one of each color

Every january I scam a resort ski vacation by poaching the canadian medical education seminar in banff with an MD bro, he seminars while i ski and then we hit rogers pass,last yrs hut trip was 1/2 price cuz I helped the operator in the fall to do maintenance also ate /drank a week for free.Went to cuba on the cheap with the highschool band (yes I went to bandcamp),a couple weeks of yatching off the north coast as an unpaid research assistant studying in a somewhat tired but still running OK 38' mason eating & drinking for free, other short term jobs were stick bitch on a survey crew,bucket bitch on a fish shocking crew, painting a BC cabin , picking up movie set garbage, handyman at the research center, shuttling vehicals for canoers/rafters/fisherman/kayakers

Don't do your old job unless you are desperate cuz you need to go forward & do an entirely nuther gig , I am hoping to driving a hay rake for a % of the crop next summer

working for nothing but daily expenses can be a cool way to go cuz you live for free ...I did 6 weeks in Whistler working DH races and all I had to pay for was dinner & booze

don't make plans (which is a plan) instead live the moment that way you can do whatever comes along whenever because if you don't work much you gotta work when it comes except skis season ... when you don't work

so I did all the things you wana do in retirerment for cheap ...use your imagination eh cuz you don't know what you don't know

[Eldo]

Sounds like a great retirement life to me.

[The AD]

Yeah, those that think the 2-5 mil numbers are high, are ummmm high. My father just retired with enough to hold him and my mother over, travel, live well, etc. It was a figure on the low side of those numbers.

My dad retired somewhere between five and ten years ago and I know for certain didn't have anywhere near that kind of money in his 401K or other investments. OK, he does have a pension, but it's not that much. I doubt he ever made more than 100K per year at his job. They immediately sold their house in Michigan and moved to San Diego where obviously housing and living expenses in general are much higher, yet they are living well. Sinking lots of money into home improvement projects, travel, etc. OTOH they don't have any expensive hobbies, car or boats.

[AdironRider]

My theory is that my home is always open to them if they need it. Shit happens in life. I want them to know that no matter what, I got their back.

Shit happens, but opening the doors just because the kid isnt happy is not the answer, that was more my point.

You still call the shots, and if your kid was going nowhere, on drugs, etc would you still have open doors?

At some point the responsibility it theirs. Thats not to say no matter what they cant move back in, but theres a time and a place type thing. To think someone needs to save up expecting their kids to boomerang is the wrong way to go about it.

[jack shit]

Shit happens, but opening the doors just because the kid isnt happy is not the answer, that was more my point.

You still call the shots, and if your kid was going nowhere, on drugs, etc would you still have open doors?

At some point the responsibility it theirs. Thats not to say no matter what they cant move back in, but theres a time and a place type thing. To think someone needs to save up expecting their kids to boomerang is the wrong way to go about it.

I agree that saving to help the boomerang kid is wrong and if my kids need to move back home, I will expect that they contribute to the household expenses. No free ride.

Funny that my home will be vacant for most of the coming year and I asked my daughter who is saving for a house if she wanted to "house sit" for us for the year and she declined.

[XXX-er]

Sounds like a great retirement life to me.

On june 7th 2005 when I got canned, it was exactly 8:37am when I glanced at my watch as I was drivng home at exactly 30mph to save fuel I would have had a different POV it was "fuck I'm jobless after >30yrs what now?" and I had spaghetti for diner with just tomato sauce

but really all that's changed in my life IS my POV which is what you need to change to retire well from what you did before and no matter how much you plan,how much you think you know its all theory until you cash in your chips and get out of the game

IME you can do it with a lot less $ than the people who sell you what we have up here the "RRSP" cuz obviously they have a vested interest in selling you more,up here the industry regularly quotes 70% as the number you need to retire, I would say 50% will work fine

[Brock Landers]

I dont know, rather than "retire" and work odd jobs to pay daily expenses to eat ramen noodles or spaghetti...Id rather work and eat more of what I want. Nothing on TV during the day anyway and everyone Id do shit with is working. Maybe my POV is different. Yeah I "could" retire with X in the bank...but if its a rat race trying to pay bills in order to avoid the proverbial rat race, whats the point

[XXX-er]

I don't have to work odd jobs to make ends meet in fact the 1st thing I tell an employer is "I don't need this job but lets see if we can make us both some money and maybe even have a good time doing it" the odd jobs are just to give me something to do BECAUSE the GF/all my friends/everybody else ... is working

what I am trying to point out is that yes you need a number but retirement especially early retirement is about more than just "the number " ... its about wtf am I gona do now ?

GF always jokes about the rather limited menu at the mancave "lets see will it be steak & salad or pork tenderlion & salad or steak & salad or porktenderlion ...

[Brock Landers]

I gotcha. The way things are now for me, I feel like I could do this job for a while without retiring early (unless the number was so absurd that I could afford to buy ridiculous shit to fill my free time). I know in 15 or 20 years the view could change and Id want to do other things and either retire early or change jobs altogether.

[DougW]

My wife who according to plan will retire next year other than $15K/y in consulting for 3 years. Will have no problem not working. She will ride horse by self or hook up with one of three possible partners, fish with logger friend, hike, ski 60 days, X country ski, snow shoe, drive tractor to trade labour for hay... maybe enough labour to get some cat days

I'm thinking I could do that.

[DougW]

But I agree that living on next to nothing is like a job that doesn't pay very well and who wants that. Might as well do something that makes money than do nothing to save.

[AdironRider]

Not trying to undermine that little nugget of wisdom, as it certainly holds true.

But those frugal living sites are a joke. There is little thought process into ramifications of actions and the time value of money.

Lots of proponents of walking everywhere (fine), coupon clipping, etc, that while on the surface looks liek your saving some coin, but the oppotunity costs are always left out.

I read an article on a guy who lives on 7k a year. He lives in a van, owns one nice shirt and one nice pair of pants for work, and a couple pairs of jeans and a TShirt otherwise. He preaches frugality, I think hes preaching how to mooch off the system as much as possible. Guy parks illegally everywhere, steals electricity and wifi, and preaches it like the gospel. Thats no living frugally. Thats being a cheap skate.

While a good lesson, it usually doesnt hold up in practice, unless you want to be homeless, have no kids, and are willing to be a derilict.

[AdironRider]

Try working a farm someday. Those 16 hours days are not exactly how I would like to spend my retirement.

Im not saying all the advice in there is bogus, but read into them and its a whole lot of unicorns and glitter glossed over a seemingly good idea.

Look at homesteadingtoday.com boards and look at the delusions of grandeur. Lots of talking about buying 5 acres and living the good life, when in reality not much changes for them. Same with Motherearthnews.com, lenpenko.com (this guys kid restored a vehicle with his grandfather, then got the car as a gift, and this Penko guy shits on his own kids parade cause it didnt get 30+ mpg's, regardless if the car was free).

Just saying, but putting in hours of manual labor tending a farm to save on produce costs or passing on free wheels cause it isnt efficient enough is laughable. Its not all garbage, but its very rare for someone with a family and a job to realistically accomplish anything in there with any success.

Like I said, there are good ideas in there but almost all of them require massive amounts of time for minimal reward. Opportunity costs. Yeah saving a couple buck on tomatos half the year feels nice, but pays an equivalent of pennies on the dollar to just picking up a second job.

[Chugachjed]

100K in the bank and I'd retire assuming my kids were moved out.

[Benny Profane]

http://www.ebri.org/pdf/surveys/rcs/...are_FINAL1.pdf

[AdironRider]

So she spends 8 hours a week tending to just the garden beds, thats 24 hours a month. Even at 10 bucks an hour thats 240 bucks. Is she putting a dent in your food budget by greater than that on just produce? I highly doubt it. Its a losing proposition, and thats before you take into account any expenses (ferts, feed for the chickens, etc).

This is my point. The frugality sites are a joke because they take a simple nugget or thought (like growing your own food), which starts as good advice in small nuggets (like keeping just an herb garden in your kitchen window), and flips it into you can produce all the food you need right in your own backyard!

Noones arguing that you shouldnt buy shit you dont need, doesnt take a genius to know that, but there are reducing returns once you start practicing 'frugality' the way the sites describe it. Eggs cost 1.12 a dozen right now at the local grocer, and Im in Jackson Hole, I would surmise they are cheaper closer to a city. How many eggs does one need in a week? I doubt its much more than 12, but if you want to pay to raise backyard chickens then so be, but dont think its the key to financial independence like some would claim.

Im not much different than you, Im building my own house and want to have a garden. The difference is I enjoy it, but doing it to just save a few bucks isnt the right reason to do it. I could work 4 hours a week at a part time job (say 15 an hour) and make enough money to feed myself entirely and have a couple bucks left over.

Everyones situation is different, and one definitely needs to look at income vs expenditures, but the law of reducing returns most definitely applies.

[Marshall Tucker]

how much money is enough? $5 mil.

And if I get there, then probably just a little bit more.

[AdironRider]

To you, someone who insists on monetizing the value of everything, it may appear to be a "losing proposition." To her, it is a labor of love. And if you can't taste the difference between freshly picked produce versus store bought (even expensive organic) produce, I can't explain it to you.

Nope, you don't get it. Those who claim that they "need" $5,000,000 to retire or can do it with $2,000,000 if they "cut corners" necessarily (and, likely, unconsciously) are operating with the assumption of a retirement during which they are going to buy a bunch of shit they don't need. And they, like you, are stuck in the rut of monetizing the value of everything. The Man has you right where He wants you: workin', buyin', fearin' and putting a dollar sign on everything in this world. Vibes.

Sure thing hippy, read my post again and look for where I say do it cause you like it.

[montanaskier]

I don't know what the # is....I'd guess 2-3mil if everything was paid off. It seems so far off at the moment. I've got a 2 year old company and just expanded. I'm eyeball deep in debt and working my ass off to make this thing go. The idea is to build this to a good income and leave something for my kid or to be able to sell it later and retire.

[Toadman]

I guess the key for me is the no worry or stress factor. So let's say I win a $1million after tax lump sum lottery jackpot. Do I walk away? Nope. Let's say it is $5 million after tax jackpot? I still think I keep working a few more years. You still have the issue of health care expenses, which has been brought up in some posts. IMO health insurance is going to keep going up and up. Can I buy myself a EU passport, or marry some hot euro babe and get free medical for life? Then my number goes down a tad. But now I've got this hot euro babe, and from what I've heard, they can be way more expensive than American health insurance coverage. But I suspect my number is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $7.5 million in a mixed bag of currencies and liquid assets. It would be nice to be faced with that decision though....Of course the relatives are going to start asking questions too.

[GeezerSteve]

My question for those who are throwing out $2M to $7.5M numbers and currently lack any likelihood of amassing that sum or anything near it: Are you on the work until you die plan?

[iceman]

I guess that Milton education did some good because I find AdironRider's take straightforward and well-reasoned. He's not saying don't garden or don't have chickens or whatever the fuck you want, just that looking at those things as a way to save money is essentially a fool's game.

If you have a couple chickens I'm sure that your organic homegrown eggs will be fantastic and give you a great deal of satisfaction, but thinking that they are cheaper than $1.12 eggs at the store is just silly. So if you're talking about frugality and not quality of life, he's dead on. Steve, you seem to be missing this distinction.

edit: And that leaves aside the whole question of opportunity cost, which AdRi discussed as well. If you work flipping burgers for $8.00/hr. three days a week you can buy enough food to kill yourself with every week of the year. And have money left over. Of course if you really want to put your agricultural skills to work you could grow dope and make some actual cashish.