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  1. #4926
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Driving2VT
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    3,899
    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Just habit. After backing off the spring tension for storage, when they’re engaged without a boot it unloads the spring a little more. I still pop them down if need the room.

    Thanks
    Gotcha. Was curious if it was a bit more tension relief. Appeared intentional.
    Uno mas

  2. #4927
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,326
    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    What is that jig, and does it center itself??
    A project I put together when I was injured and bored a few years ago. And yep, self-centering.

  3. #4928
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6,401
    Love it. Burliest jig in the land.
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  4. #4929
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,326
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Love it. Burliest jig in the land.
    As the good folks at Moment say, overkill is underrated.

  5. #4930
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    557
    Need some BF inserts…anybody holding?

  6. #4931
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    196
    I need to remount a pair of Rossignol Axial3 120s. Hoping to just change the toe to the get the mid-sole where I want it for a smaller BSL.

    Two questions though:
    1. How sensitive are the tracks on these to adjustment range? Is anywhere on the track fine to ski at? They've got a huge range - I'll try to stay in the middle of it if possible but just curious.
    2. Best option for plugging the old holes - plastic plug and epoxy or some other method?

  7. #4932
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,899

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    I need to remount a pair of Rossignol Axial3 120s. Hoping to just change the toe to the get the mid-sole where I want it for a smaller BSL.

    Two questions though:
    1. How sensitive are the tracks on these to adjustment range? Is anywhere on the track fine to ski at? They've got a huge range - I'll try to stay in the middle of it if possible but just curious.
    2. Best option for plugging the old holes - plastic plug and epoxy or some other method?
    I believe there is a window visible when the heel is engaged which shows an acceptable forward pressure range. If it is all clear or all yellow you are out of range (boot engaged). 50/50 ideal although that is hard to nail perfectly. Some clear some yellow you are good. It is likely impossible to know off the ski. I don’t know the available range or where it is now within that range but likely you don’t have a ton of toe only movement available. How much smaller you going? +\- 1cm from midsole shouldn’t concern you too much so a little wiggle there.

    Plastic plugs are fine. I dip them in epoxy first, tap them in then lop their heads off with either a straight razor or a Dremel tool (easier if you have one to get them flush). Folks here will advocate for wood dowels but that is typically more so if you need to snug up to old holes.
    Uno mas

  8. #4933
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    I believe there is a window visible when the heel is engaged which shows an acceptable forward pressure range. If it is all clear or all yellow you are out of range (boot engaged). 50/50 ideal although that is hard to nail perfectly. Some clear some yellow you are good. It is likely impossible to know off the ski. I don’t know the available range or where it is now within that range but likely you don’t have a ton of toe only movement available. How much smaller you going? +\- 1cm from midsole shouldn’t concern you too much so a little wiggle there.

    Plastic plugs are fine. I dip them in epoxy first, tap them in then lop their heads off with either a straight razor or a Dremel tool (easier if you have one to get them flush). Folks here will advocate for wood dowels but that is typically more so if you need to snug up to old holes.
    Super helpful, thank you.

    I don't think the toes have any adjustment in them, so I have to get the heel all the way forwards (or within the last 2 clicks on the track) to get my boots in and it puts the mid-sole +1 of the line. The skis are already center mounted, so I think it's worth mounting the toes back to get the mid-sole at or behind the line. I'll check to see if the indicator seems OK back a couple CM and then move the toes accordingly.

    I've got a Dremel so that'll be easy.

  9. #4934
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,899

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    Super helpful, thank you.

    I don't think the toes have any adjustment in them, so I have to get the heel all the way forwards (or within the last 2 clicks on the track) to get my boots in and it puts the mid-sole +1 of the line. The skis are already center mounted, so I think it's worth mounting the toes back to get the mid-sole at or behind the line. I'll check to see if the indicator seems OK back a couple CM and then move the toes accordingly.

    I've got a Dremel so that'll be easy.
    Yeah only adjustment in demo binder toes.

    I would slide the heel piece back to the point of where you midsole is on the line when you jam the boot back w/ your hand (w the heel engaged)and see how much clearance you have between the toe of the boot and where the binder toe piece sits now. You’ll likely need to mark the ski to measure. This is roughly the distance you’ll have to remount the toe backward. If it less than 1cm it is going to be tight. My sense is if it is still touching during this super scientific exercise you won’t be able to generate enough forward pressure on the line so you’ll have to move the toe BUT there is a risk you won’t be able to minimize the forward pressure appropriately once the toe is moved as you won’t have enough rearward track left …without also moving the heel but you could start with a toe and take it from there.

    This all assumes your forward pressure can be set appropriately for your boot now.
    Uno mas

  10. #4935
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    Yeah only adjustment in demo binder toes.

    I would slide the heel piece back to the point of where you midsole is on the line when you jam the boot back w/ your hand (w the heel engaged)and see how much clearance you have between the toe of the boot and where the binder toe piece sits now. You’ll likely need to mark the ski to measure. This is roughly the distance you’ll have to remount the toe backward. If it less than 1cm it is going to be tight. My sense is if it is still touching during this super scientific exercise you won’t be able to generate enough forward pressure on the line so you’ll have to move the toe BUT there is a risk you won’t be able to minimize the forward pressure appropriately once the toe is moved as you won’t have enough rearward track left …without also moving the heel but you could start with a toe and take it from there.

    This all assumes your forward pressure can be set appropriately for your boot now.
    With the boot in now I am +1 of the line with the heel slid up about 1-2 clicks from the end of the track. It seems like it has plenty of forward pressure, but just looks a bit off and the indicator isn't showing 50/50 yellow and clear.

    I'd like to be on the line or -1, maybe even -2. Going further back than that looks less than ideal since the mount point is a true center mount and the skis are symmetrical in rocker. With that in mind, my plan was to move the toes back 2cm - 2.5cm which should put me closer to the middle of the heel track while getting the mid-sole more where I want it. This all lines up with the test method above - very scientific indeed.

  11. #4936
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,899

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    With the boot in now I am +1 of the line with the heel slid up about 1-2 clicks from the end of the track. It seems like it has plenty of forward pressure, but just looks a bit off and the indicator isn't showing 50/50 yellow and clear.

    I'd like to be on the line or -1, maybe even -2. Going further back than that looks less than ideal since the mount point is a true center mount and the skis are symmetrical in rocker. With that in mind, my plan was to move the toes back 2cm - 2.5cm which should put me closer to the middle of the heel track while getting the mid-sole more where I want it. This all lines up with the test method above - very scientific indeed.
    Maybe but you may want to move that heel tray around to see if you can get mixed colors in that window first. Do you know if the mount is even for your bsl?

    More macro thought is that going back on a skis designed to be center mounted isn’t likely to make it ski more directional. Could just get weird.

    From the info you shared I am not sure anything will work out as planned. Forward pressure isn’t just enough pressure, it is proper load on the springs so they release as designed.
    Uno mas

  12. #4937
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    Maybe but you may want to move that heel tray around to see if you can get mixed colors in that window first. Do you know if the mount is even for your bsl?

    More macro thought is that going back on a skis designed to be center mounted isn’t likely to make it ski more directional. Could just get weird.

    From the info you shared I am not sure anything will work out as planned. Forward pressure isn’t just enough pressure, it is proper load on the springs so they release as designed.
    The current mount is for 328, my bsl is 305. So in theory moving the toes back ~2cm should get the bindings in the right range to work properly. Left one ski with the binding where it was - it shows about 90% yellow. On the other ski, regardless of where on the track I adjust the binding it shows the same thing in the indicator window. Maybe it needs to have a boot in it to register properly, so I'll mess with that later.

    I'm not a sensitive enough skier to pick up on a 1cm mount difference but I'd rather be 1cm back than forward - that's my only thinking here with moving just the toes. I'll probably give it a go in the next few days.

  13. #4938
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
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    3,899

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Yes move the toe back 2cm. You should end up 2cm back from the recommend mark. Boot has to be engaged for that window to read anything.

    Alternatively toe goes back 1cm and heel up 1cm and you end up on the line.
    Uno mas

  14. #4939
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,296
    moving the toe back two centimeters makes for a -.85cm / -8,5mm mount no?

    At 328 you have 23mm too wide spacing compared to 305, so 11,5mm on each side if mounted at recommended. So by moving the toe 2cm back the toe first makes it way back to the boot at recommended at 11,5mm, then pushes it back 8.5mm by going the full 2cm, provided the heel can be adjusted 3mm forward to get it to the 305mm spacing.

    A -8,5mm mount is not a big deal on most designs.

    edit: man, i am too tired to do this kinda of easy math

  15. #4940
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    196
    I'll report back once I've got it mounted up, I think -1cm will be fine for these. I'll be stoked if I get more than a few days in on them this season anyhow so I'm not sweating it, just wanted to be sure I wasn't about to make some unforeseen error. Thanks guys.

  16. #4941
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
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    3,899
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    moving the toe back two centimeters makes for a -.85cm / -8,5mm mount no?

    At 328 you have 23mm too wide spacing compared to 305, so 11,5mm on each side if mounted at recommended. So by moving the toe 2cm back the toe first makes it way back to the boot at recommended at 11,5mm, then pushes it back 8.5mm by going the full 2cm, provided the heel can be adjusted 3mm forward to get it to the 305mm spacing.

    A -8,5mm mount is not a big deal on most designs.

    edit: man, i am too tired to do this kinda of easy math
    Yeah about -1cm is right. Lazy math in my previous post. I was going off of 325mm to make the math easier but you’d need to bring the toe back 1cm anyway to adjust from 325 to 305 and by sneaking that other 1cm adjustment from the heel also w/ the toe adj you slide about about 1cm back from center. Sorry!
    Uno mas

  17. #4942
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,296
    I had to edit the damned post three times as I screwed the up the numbers that many times, hence my "too tired" line

  18. #4943
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,899

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I had to edit the damned post three times as I screwed the up the numbers that many times, hence my "too tired" line
    Well I tried to make it easy and still eff’d it up and I work w #s irl. It really isn’t that hard????
    Thanks for at least helping us get to a better place than I had left us.
    Uno mas

  19. #4944
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ellensburg
    Posts
    346
    Just finished a mount on the devs (-1) and a re-mount on the MBs (+1). Henceforth I will always drill out the extra plastic in binding holes that causes the screw threads to engage in the binding, especially if reusing holes. That, plus clamping the heels down after I got the front heel screws started made install fairly painless.

    AFDs on the MBs and pivot/brake assembly are new, direct from Rossi.






    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  20. #4945
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    165
    Drilled my own planks for the first time, thanks to the patient coaching (and ATK jig) provided by TGapp. Benneke10 provided moral support, and sfb hooked up some plugs for the old holes.

    The skis had previously been mounted with Atomic Backlands, which have a really wide mount pattern. This caused a few problems, but nothing insurmountable. Like breakable crust, all it did was add some spice

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  21. #4946
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
    Posts
    12,710
    strong work pleased to meet ya and be an enabler
    i have a hard time not hookin people up with shop stuff we have a lot of
    and i think the positive vibe and wom outweighs nickle and diming people for hole plugs
    sheldon and i are full time in the millcreek store this season so feel free to come by and hit us up
    for dyi mounting needs
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  22. #4947
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    strong work pleased to meet ya and be an enabler
    i have a hard time not hookin people up with shop stuff we have a lot of
    and i think the positive vibe and wom outweighs nickle and diming people for hole plugs
    sheldon and i are full time in the millcreek store this season so feel free to come by and hit us up
    for dyi mounting needs
    You actually met benneke, but the plugs were for me. I want to stop by, especially after hearing tgapp's stories about your basement.

  23. #4948
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    2,396
    Quote Originally Posted by CirqueScaler View Post
    You actually met benneke, but the plugs were for me. I want to stop by, especially after hearing tgapp's stories about your basement.
    aka all of our childhood dreams of a man room, but with ten times more skis than we ever thought possible (:

    thanks for the hookup, dibs. you saved our bacon big time.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

  24. #4949
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by waveshello View Post
    AFDs on the MBs and pivot/brake assembly are new, direct from Rossi.
    Does Rossi now sell replacement AFDs that work for those older style toes? I've run into issues where they don't match up and are designed for the newer toes (post re-release in 2010 or so)
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  25. #4950
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ellensburg
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Does Rossi now sell replacement AFDs that work for those older style toes? I've run into issues where they don't match up and are designed for the newer toes (post re-release in 2010 or so)
    They sell the new version, but it takes about 30 second with a razor to modify them to fit. The 2021 service manual actually specifies to modify the AFDs to fit the older toes. AFAIK this only works with the alpine AFDs.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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