PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

[mtskibum16]

Good call on stripping out the plastic. I was also going to check the binding fit with the volcanoes first to see if there was any interference. Good stuff guys thanks.

[PeachesNCream]

I personally wouldn't use gorilla glue, expanding glue seems risky but that's just me

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[ddenis2]

Hi all,
Always have had my local shop do my mounts, and while its always done well, figured with some extra time at home from quarantine I would give it a shot myself. Have a new pair of ON3P Wren 96 Ti (metal) and look P18s. Ski recommends a 4.1x9mm bit which I can find online. ON3P site and various places online also mention that I need to tap a metal ski. What size tap do I need to do this? Also, do I need epoxy or wood glue? Anything else to consider?

Thanks in advance, this thread is a wealth of knowledge.

[GeezerSteve]

What size tap do I need to do this?

#12AB

[1000-oaks]

I hate rusty screws, and tossed water-based wood glue years ago.

Gorilla Glue expands, but only if it has room to do so. They're virtually no room between the screw and the hole in the ski, so no need to worry about expansion. It actually soaks into the wood core nicely like epoxy, and strengthens the hole. And it leaves a nice clean threaded hole when the screws are removed, making it easy to reuse the holes.

[PeachesNCream]

I hate rusty screws, and tossed water-based wood glue years ago.

Gorilla Glue expands, but only if it has room to do so. They're virtually no room between the screw and the hole in the ski, so no need to worry about expansion. It actually soaks into the wood core nicely like epoxy, and strengthens the hole. And it leaves a nice clean threaded hole when the screws are removed, making it easy to reuse the holes.

Interesting. And no issues with screws backing out?

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[1000-oaks]

Ask Whyturn how much effort it takes to snap the Gorilla Glue bond between the screw and the ski, lol. He was shocked.

You usually need a pozidrive with a hex on it, so you can put a Crescent wrench on the screwdriver (while pushing down on the screwdriver with the other hand) and give the wrench a quick snap to break the bond. It turns easy after that, and the screw comes out clean, as opposed to epoxy - which usually fills the threads in the screw and leaves big holes in the ski, unless you heat up the screws first. I only use epoxy for inserts.

[mtskibum16]

If anything the expanding glue would lock the threads by essentially pre-tensioning them rather than backing them out. Huh that’s tempting to try.

[galibier_numero_un]

Good comments about Gorilla glue. I seem to recall a comment about a polyurethane glue that doesn't expand. Am I remembering correctly?

In any case, for the few, non-insert mounts I do, I think I'll shift to Gorilla.

... Thom

[tuco]

^^probably 3M 5200

[galibier_numero_un]

^^probably 3M 5200

Looks like good stuff. Maybe overkill with respect to Gorilla Glue, but good to have options ;-)

3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a one-component, high-strength, moisture-curing, gap-filling polyurethane for permanent bonding of wood, gelcoat and fiberglass. It cures to form a firm, rubbery, waterproof seal on joints and boat hardware, above and below the waterline. This product has been trusted throughout the marine industry for over 50 years.

Details:

Permanent bonding – above and below the waterline

Industry standard for over 50 years

Offers extended working time

Achieves handling strength in 48 hours

Tough and flexible polyurethane polymer forms strong bonds

Capable of retaining strong bonds during vibration, swelling, shrinking or shock

Tough and Flexible to Form Strong Bonds

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Combats Vibrations, Swelling, Shrinking and Shock

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Product Description

3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a tough, flexible polyurethane for permanent bonding and sealing on your boat or watercraft. It is ideal for use on wood, gelcoat, fiberglass, metal and more. It is recommended for interiors, below the waterline and any other areas that are shielded from sunlight. This one-component adhesive sealant applies right from the container – no metering or mixing is required. It reaches handling strength in 48 hours, and fully cures in 5-7 days to form a firm, flexible, waterproof seal on joints and boat hardware. Far more than a marine caulk, tough, flexible Marine Adhesive 5200 dissipates stress caused by vibration and shock and won’t crack under dynamic force. It resists saltwater, wind, weather and temperature extremes for long periods of worry-free enjoyment on the water. In fact, for more than 50 years, 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 has been used and trusted as a marine sealant by professionals in some of the most demanding conditions on earth.

From the Manufacturer

3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is extremely strong and retains its strength above or below water line. Stays flexible too - allows for structural movement. Has excellent resistance to weathering and salt water.

Stress caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking is effectively absorbed. Check the bonding and sealing jobs this product can handle for you: fiberglass deck to fiberglass hull, wood to fiberglass, portholes and deck fittings, motors on fiberglass transoms, under mouldings, hull seams above and below water line. Center board trunk joints. Between struts and planking. Stern joints. Deck housing, etc. Easy to apply with manual caulking gun. Won't sag or flow in vertical or horizontal seams.

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Features & details

Easy to apply – One-part adhesive sealant requires no mixing, cures completely in 5-7 days

Use what the pros use – Extremely strong adhesive sealant retains strength above or below waterline

Tough, flexible bonds – Stays flexible, retaining strong bonds even during vibration, structural movement, swelling, shrinking or shock

Bonds permanently – Ideal for sealing, bonding and attaching on the interiors of boats or on exteriors where shielded from the sun

Long lasting formula – Tough polyurethane polymer resists weathering and salt water

[1000-oaks]

Gorilla Glue only expands if it has room and moisture. It'll foam a bit around the screw between the topsheet and the underside of the binding baseplate due to humidity in the air, but it comes right off with a razor blade when you remove the bindings. That little ring of foam further keeps water out of the screw holes. In the screw hole where there's no moisture, it dries to a clear amber color and is tough yet flexible.

No need to fill the hole with glue (which would be hydraulically injected into the core if you do), just put a good swab of it in the tapped threads in the ski, and a dab on the end of the screw before insertion.

IMHO, I have no idea why anyone would use anything else for binding screws. It does get thicker as it ages, so I write the date on each new bottle and get a new bottle every two or three years just for ease of use.

[XXX-er]

https://www.gorillatough.com/product...-gorilla-glue/

the instructions ACTUALY tell you to wet the surfaces and the glue will seek out the water, when I have used Gorrila I will spit in the holes and poke a nail in there to spread the moisture.

I used gorilla to glue in pieces of dowel that were not a tight fit, in the morning the glue had expanded/ puked out the little pieces of dowel and they were all sitting on the top sheet but the idea of gorilla glue expanding/ blowing up a ski is good for laugh in these pandemic times


if you need to do any kind of structural repair slowset 2 part is still ze best so thats what i use

[1000-oaks]

^ Yeah, the instructions say to wet the surfaces (which I'd do if gluing two boards together), but it still cures around binding screws just from moisture in the air. Or maybe there's enough residual moisture in the wood core. Whatever it is, it works.

[galibier_numero_un]

Mini-tip for guitar players.

When I change strings, I cut the old low-E and A strings into 6 inch lengths and store the pieces with my glues and epoxy. I'm never hunting for something to apply glue with.

... Thom

[XXX-er]

I had a basement foundation fixed where buddy injected a 5' crack from the inside with a 2 part ureathane, you could see the glue chase the water thru porous concrete for a permannent fix with no excavation ... amazing


maybe you folks break/build more shit than me but I never completely use up the small containers of glue so it makes more sense for me to stick with one glue and try to use it up, since 2 part slowset is the best thats what i keep around .

I did go thru a couple of 8oz tubes of AQS last year but that was a commercial gig and that is a lot of glue

[PeachesNCream]

Putting together a set of rock skis and need some help with picking bindings. As you can see in the pics, it's a Swiss cheese experiment. Any recommendations on bindings? I was going to go with frame binding cause 1. They're cheap and 2. I'll be using these skis for 80% resort/20% touring. The previous mounts were Jester schizos (wood dowels), Shifts (open holes), and an unknown (plastic). Any recommendations on what resort orientated frame binding would fit in there the best? Thinking adrenaline, guardian, Duke. I realize whatever I go with there will be overlap


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[dschane]

I'm trying to mount someone's Tyrolia Adrenalins for her kid. But I'm too stupid to understand wtf is happening with the paper template. Why are there two sets for the heel. I mean, obviously, one is for the entire heel unit and one is just for the rear 4-hole plate that's attached to the heel lever, but I don't see why I need two copies of that.

In any event, all the holes line up just fine, but I can't figure out the distance between the heel unit and the toe. It should be a single distance but the templates follow the more traditional alpine method where the distance varies depending on boot sole length. I'm sure I could trash more 2x4s and figure it out eventually, but can anyone save this jong some time and explain wtf my dense noggin is missing?

And there's some metal plate that appears to go under the rear 4-hole unit, probably to make it slide better?

Walk away. The adrenalins are finicky and a stupid shop can really fuck up. Watch out if you use the supplied template, the creases can move the plates from where they should be. I would print a new template.

[donutlynx]

I mounted two pairs of these, in size small, a few months ago. I didn't use the template that is linked, but after looking at it I "think" I've got it.

If your bindings are size small, overlap the 2nd page over the 1st and align the left side (small) scale (matching the BSL values). Then overlay the 3rd page with the "Heel #1 pattern" on top of the 2nd page Heel #1 pattern. The "Adrenalin" text and 4 holes for Heel 1 should match up. "Heel #2" is the same distance from Heel #1 for small and large bindings. The distance from the toe to Heel 1, however, does change with small vs large binding size.

The metal plate does go under the 4-hole heel unit 1. There is a front/back and bottom/top.

I found the bindings a little finicky to install, but they have been great in the performance department. Up and down.

Not sure if this is helpful, but I ended up placing a boot in the binding and marking out the holes on a 2x4. Did a mount there and made sure it all worked correctly before moving to skis. Once I had the boot in the binding, and heel unit 2 lined up, it started to make a lot more sense.

[PeachesNCream]

.

[dschane]

Thanks! I ended up measuring the spacing between the two sets of holes -- fwiw, for small bindings, the rear toe holes are 27.5 cm in front of the most forward holes on the heel unit, i.e., the front holes of the 4-hole plate. I then just marked boot center on the binding and measured from there.

For that 4-hole heel plate, I assume the ribbed side faces up. Is the narrow section positioned towards the toes and the wider section towards the back of the ski? That's what I'm assuming.

Next problem, these are 155 cm Faction Jr. skis (3.5 x 7.5 drill bit), so I'm going to have to shave about 1.5mm off each screw, find shorter ones, or dimple the bases. This kid has been saving his chore money for these puppies, so I'm going to try to avoid dimpling. With alpine bindings, you might be able to get away with regular screws, but these heel plates go way back on the skis and they're wafer thin back there.

[donutlynx]

Thanks! I ended up measuring the spacing between the two sets of holes -- fwiw, for small bindings, the rear toe holes are 27.5 cm in front of the most forward holes on the heel unit, i.e., the front holes of the 4-hole plate. I then just marked boot center on the binding and measured from there.

For that 4-hole heel plate, I assume the ribbed side faces up. Is the narrow section positioned towards the toes and the wider section towards the back of the ski? That's what I'm assuming.

Next problem, these are 155 cm Faction Jr. skis (3.5 x 7.5 drill bit), so I'm going to have to shave about 1.5mm off each screw, find shorter ones, or dimple the bases. This kid has been saving his chore money for these puppies, so I'm going to try to avoid dimpling. With alpine bindings, you might be able to get away with regular screws, but these heel plates go way back on the skis and they're wafer thin back there.

Nice.

Yep - for the plate - ribbed side up and the short tails of the "H" facing tip. Just as you described. I messed that part up on the first binding, but the holes are evenly spaced on that heel unit. I just backed the screws out, flipped the plate, and drove the screws back in.

I'm not sure it matters too much for the plate facing front/back, but the ribbed side up definitely works smoother. There's still a good bit of friction - I have a real hard time switching to tour mode without a ski pole or long screwdriver for leverage. I wouldn't want it any looser, though. As-is, the binding feels solid and secure.

[donutlynx]

^^^^and those bindings are suuuuper long. My wife's skis are 156, and things were getting pretty thin back there. No dimpling, but dang...

[dschane]

Thanks again.

And yeah, there's very little girth left in the rear of the Jr. skis for the heel pieces. I'm going to shave down the screws. They are already pretty short and they recommend drilling 7mm deep on the heel for adult skis, so it may not go well on the standard length screws.

[dschane]

Found some short screws and shaved the 4 middle ones for the heel plate since those seem specialized for the lock mechanism to slide underneath. Came out fine:



But, as I was adjusting the toe height on one of the bindings, I noticed that the adjusting screw had some play in it. I couldn't figure out why but the effect is that I couldn't close the gap between the pad of the boot toe and the pad of the binding toe, even after moving the binding toe as high as possible. Rather than just spaced enough for a piece of paper to be pulled out, there is maybe a mm of light. It's perfect on the other binding.

Is the kid going to die?