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  1. #3726
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    395
    So I was asking before about mounting using existing holes with consensus being it’s fine but use epoxy. Got the skis today. Wondering if I should trim these volcanoes before remounting? I would assume yes, but figured I’d ask the collective.

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  2. #3727
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    33
    I would

  3. #3728
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    721
    I wouldn’t, but I’m also not sure it matters

  4. #3729
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    Yes, remove the volcanoes with a sharp razor blade so the binding isn't spaced up off the ski. If the threads in the ski are good, I'd just use Gorilla Glue. What ski? Any metal in it?

  5. #3730
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    The little screw keepers built in to pivots seem to prevent the ability to back-screw until the threads align and you can tighten without cross threading.
    This is an issue not only when reusing existing holes, but also if you've tapped new holes. Always remove the screws from the bindings and drill (or round file) out the little plastic tab keepers so the screws can spin freely. If you don't, you have to hold the binding in the air a bit while starting each screw into the ski, so you can feel for the screw to start into the threads properly.

  6. #3731
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    395
    ON3P Woodsman 108 so no metal. I was planning to do something about the plastic keepers in the bindings hole. I’m just not confident in being able to align the threads otherwise.

  7. #3732
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    774
    I would just leave them in place, that is unless they prevent the bindings from seating properly (which they probably won't do). Pivot bindings have some space for volcanoes though, so I would not mess with the holes to max out the strength of the mount and to prevent spinners.

  8. #3733
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    721
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I would just leave them in place, that is unless they prevent the bindings from seating properly (which they probably won't do). Pivot bindings have some space for volcanoes though, so I would not mess with the holes to max out the strength of the mount and to prevent spinners.
    This is what I was try to say but more elegant.

    Also to remove the plastic keepers in pivots just screw the screws all the way down and keep going until you strip the plastic, back out the screw and remove the loose plastic bits. Works like a charm. I.e. dont do that with the binding on the ski obviously just hold the heel.

  9. #3734
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    395
    Good call on stripping out the plastic. I was also going to check the binding fit with the volcanoes first to see if there was any interference. Good stuff guys thanks.

  10. #3735
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    452
    I personally wouldn't use gorilla glue, expanding glue seems risky but that's just me

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  11. #3736
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2

    on3p metal wren mount

    Hi all,
    Always have had my local shop do my mounts, and while its always done well, figured with some extra time at home from quarantine I would give it a shot myself. Have a new pair of ON3P Wren 96 Ti (metal) and look P18s. Ski recommends a 4.1x9mm bit which I can find online. ON3P site and various places online also mention that I need to tap a metal ski. What size tap do I need to do this? Also, do I need epoxy or wood glue? Anything else to consider?

    Thanks in advance, this thread is a wealth of knowledge.

  12. #3737
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,302
    Quote Originally Posted by ddenis2 View Post
    What size tap do I need to do this?
    #12AB

  13. #3738
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    I hate rusty screws, and tossed water-based wood glue years ago.

    Gorilla Glue expands, but only if it has room to do so. They're virtually no room between the screw and the hole in the ski, so no need to worry about expansion. It actually soaks into the wood core nicely like epoxy, and strengthens the hole. And it leaves a nice clean threaded hole when the screws are removed, making it easy to reuse the holes.

  14. #3739
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    I hate rusty screws, and tossed water-based wood glue years ago.

    Gorilla Glue expands, but only if it has room to do so. They're virtually no room between the screw and the hole in the ski, so no need to worry about expansion. It actually soaks into the wood core nicely like epoxy, and strengthens the hole. And it leaves a nice clean threaded hole when the screws are removed, making it easy to reuse the holes.
    Interesting. And no issues with screws backing out?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  15. #3740
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    Ask Whyturn how much effort it takes to snap the Gorilla Glue bond between the screw and the ski, lol. He was shocked.

    You usually need a pozidrive with a hex on it, so you can put a Crescent wrench on the screwdriver (while pushing down on the screwdriver with the other hand) and give the wrench a quick snap to break the bond. It turns easy after that, and the screw comes out clean, as opposed to epoxy - which usually fills the threads in the screw and leaves big holes in the ski, unless you heat up the screws first. I only use epoxy for inserts.

  16. #3741
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    395
    If anything the expanding glue would lock the threads by essentially pre-tensioning them rather than backing them out. Huh that’s tempting to try.

  17. #3742
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,732
    Good comments about Gorilla glue. I seem to recall a comment about a polyurethane glue that doesn't expand. Am I remembering correctly?

    In any case, for the few, non-insert mounts I do, I think I'll shift to Gorilla.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #3743
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,800
    ^^probably 3M 5200

  19. #3744
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,732
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    ^^probably 3M 5200
    Looks like good stuff. Maybe overkill with respect to Gorilla Glue, but good to have options ;-)


    3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a one-component, high-strength, moisture-curing, gap-filling polyurethane for permanent bonding of wood, gelcoat and fiberglass. It cures to form a firm, rubbery, waterproof seal on joints and boat hardware, above and below the waterline. This product has been trusted throughout the marine industry for over 50 years.

    Details:

    Permanent bonding – above and below the waterline

    Industry standard for over 50 years

    Offers extended working time

    Achieves handling strength in 48 hours

    Tough and flexible polyurethane polymer forms strong bonds

    Capable of retaining strong bonds during vibration, swelling, shrinking or shock

    Tough and Flexible to Form Strong Bonds

    Forming watertight seals, 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 offers permanent adhesion to wood, gelcoat and fiberglass. In addition, this marine adhesive sealant is flexible and allows for structural movement and dissipation of stress that may be caused by vibration, swelling, shrinking or shock. Available in both cartridge and sausage packs to meet your application requirements.

    Combats Vibrations, Swelling, Shrinking and Shock

    3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is designed to meet the high demands of the marine environment, making it ideal for creating tough bonds resistant to saltwater and weathering. This sealant provides an exceptionally strong solution for marine conditions as well as flexibility that combats vibrations, swelling, shrinking or shock. Once again, despite the barriers of a rough marine environment, 3M looked to science to provide a reliable, durable solution.

    Understanding Polyurethane Sealants

    Polyurethane sealants provide strong, flexible durable elastomeric bonds that seal against the elements. These sealants excel in challenging industrial, transportation and construction applications. Polyurethane sealants are available in a wide variety of Shore A hardness, open time and colors to meet many application needs.

    Choose a 3M Manual or Pneumatic Applicator for dispensing 3M adhesives sealant cartridges and 400ml/600ml sausage packs.

    Recommended Applications

    Fiberglass deck to hull

    Through hull fittings
    Wood to fiberglass
    Portholes and deck fittings
    Motors on fiberglass transoms
    Under moldings
    Hull seams above and below water line
    Deck housing

    Product Description

    3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a tough, flexible polyurethane for permanent bonding and sealing on your boat or watercraft. It is ideal for use on wood, gelcoat, fiberglass, metal and more. It is recommended for interiors, below the waterline and any other areas that are shielded from sunlight. This one-component adhesive sealant applies right from the container – no metering or mixing is required. It reaches handling strength in 48 hours, and fully cures in 5-7 days to form a firm, flexible, waterproof seal on joints and boat hardware. Far more than a marine caulk, tough, flexible Marine Adhesive 5200 dissipates stress caused by vibration and shock and won’t crack under dynamic force. It resists saltwater, wind, weather and temperature extremes for long periods of worry-free enjoyment on the water. In fact, for more than 50 years, 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 has been used and trusted as a marine sealant by professionals in some of the most demanding conditions on earth.

    From the Manufacturer

    3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is extremely strong and retains its strength above or below water line. Stays flexible too - allows for structural movement. Has excellent resistance to weathering and salt water.

    Stress caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking is effectively absorbed. Check the bonding and sealing jobs this product can handle for you: fiberglass deck to fiberglass hull, wood to fiberglass, portholes and deck fittings, motors on fiberglass transoms, under mouldings, hull seams above and below water line. Center board trunk joints. Between struts and planking. Stern joints. Deck housing, etc. Easy to apply with manual caulking gun. Won't sag or flow in vertical or horizontal seams.

    About 3M Industrial Adhesives and Tapes

    For more than a century, 3M has applied innovation and technology to improving our customers’ lives and supporting their business goals. Today the company, from its headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota, serves industrial and commercial customers and consumers in nearly 200 countries. 3M Industrial Adhesives and Tapes include application-specific products that provide durability, strength, and special characteristics such as temperature resistance and short- and long-term protection. The 3M brand, across thousands of products, represents consistency, superior quality, and value.

    Features & details

    Easy to apply – One-part adhesive sealant requires no mixing, cures completely in 5-7 days

    Use what the pros use – Extremely strong adhesive sealant retains strength above or below waterline

    Tough, flexible bonds – Stays flexible, retaining strong bonds even during vibration, structural movement, swelling, shrinking or shock

    Bonds permanently – Ideal for sealing, bonding and attaching on the interiors of boats or on exteriors where shielded from the sun

    Long lasting formula – Tough polyurethane polymer resists weathering and salt water
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  20. #3745
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    Gorilla Glue only expands if it has room and moisture. It'll foam a bit around the screw between the topsheet and the underside of the binding baseplate due to humidity in the air, but it comes right off with a razor blade when you remove the bindings. That little ring of foam further keeps water out of the screw holes. In the screw hole where there's no moisture, it dries to a clear amber color and is tough yet flexible.

    No need to fill the hole with glue (which would be hydraulically injected into the core if you do), just put a good swab of it in the tapped threads in the ski, and a dab on the end of the screw before insertion.

    IMHO, I have no idea why anyone would use anything else for binding screws. It does get thicker as it ages, so I write the date on each new bottle and get a new bottle every two or three years just for ease of use.

  21. #3746
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    20,022
    https://www.gorillatough.com/product...-gorilla-glue/

    the instructions ACTUALY tell you to wet the surfaces and the glue will seek out the water, when I have used Gorrila I will spit in the holes and poke a nail in there to spread the moisture.

    I used gorilla to glue in pieces of dowel that were not a tight fit, in the morning the glue had expanded/ puked out the little pieces of dowel and they were all sitting on the top sheet but the idea of gorilla glue expanding/ blowing up a ski is good for laugh in these pandemic times


    if you need to do any kind of structural repair slowset 2 part is still ze best so thats what i use
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #3747
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,667
    ^ Yeah, the instructions say to wet the surfaces (which I'd do if gluing two boards together), but it still cures around binding screws just from moisture in the air. Or maybe there's enough residual moisture in the wood core. Whatever it is, it works.

  23. #3748
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,732
    Mini-tip for guitar players.

    When I change strings, I cut the old low-E and A strings into 6 inch lengths and store the pieces with my glues and epoxy. I'm never hunting for something to apply glue with.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #3749
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    20,022
    I had a basement foundation fixed where buddy injected a 5' crack from the inside with a 2 part ureathane, you could see the glue chase the water thru porous concrete for a permannent fix with no excavation ... amazing


    maybe you folks break/build more shit than me but I never completely use up the small containers of glue so it makes more sense for me to stick with one glue and try to use it up, since 2 part slowset is the best thats what i keep around .

    I did go thru a couple of 8oz tubes of AQS last year but that was a commercial gig and that is a lot of glue
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #3750
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    452
    Putting together a set of rock skis and need some help with picking bindings. As you can see in the pics, it's a Swiss cheese experiment. Any recommendations on bindings? I was going to go with frame binding cause 1. They're cheap and 2. I'll be using these skis for 80% resort/20% touring. The previous mounts were Jester schizos (wood dowels), Shifts (open holes), and an unknown (plastic). Any recommendations on what resort orientated frame binding would fit in there the best? Thinking adrenaline, guardian, Duke. I realize whatever I go with there will be overlap


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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