PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

[Lindahl]

I cut the end off a cotton swab and use the tip to put epoxy in the holes and coat the upper threads of inserts.

[Ivan Oder]

I wouldn't use a drill press, too easy to fuck up and drill too deep, off center etc... plus you have to support the ends of the ski while doing so and deal with the curved top sheet surface etc... Best use for a drill press is to make a guide block with a hole through it as others have done.

The trick I use for getting the holes in exactly the right spot is to pound a divot in the top sheet with a small nail, right through the paper template. I do a test fit of the bindings over that to see if it looks right. If all is good, then I chuck a small 1/8" bit into my dremel and widen the divot just a bit. That way when the time comes for the big drill, it won't walk around all over the place and goes exactly where it needs to. I also use the dremel and a cone shaped grinding bit to remove any volcanos so the binding sits flush.

If I have wood core skis I like to put thin CA (crazy glue with the consistency of water) into the holes AFTER tapping so that it seeps into the wood threads and fibers around the hole and wood thread to make it stronger. (balsa wood model airplane building trick.) As for putting epoxy and how much and where, less is more.

I like to use slow cure waterproof marine epoxy, mix is opaque black and white paste, mixes grey. I don't like to get the glue anywhere near the insert because it is to easy to get it IN the insert and that will ruin your day. So I put it in the ski and brush it into the wood threads with a toothpick. A good rule of thumb so far is that a little bit of it comes out when the insert screws in. (Immediately wipe away from insert with isopropyl alcohol.)

I let it cure in a warm environment for several days with the bindings installed loosely, just enough so they don't fall off. No loctite yet.

I've put in 100+ inserts so far and I've only had one spinner due to not enough glue/too much torque which was easily fixed in the field.

I install bindings with a small power screwdriver with a slipping clutch conservatively set and I blue loctite the screws in.

[shafty85]

My issue is not with bit 'walking' or 'wandering' - I'm not a dummy with tools (though no professional). I noticed the error with the templates prior to drilling and did my best to compensate when tapping with the tap from jondrums (pretty fine tap - no nail, but not a fat tap).

Fortunately, I am going to ski the skis for a few days before installing inserts so these installs are basically a practice run, after my other practice runs. My issue is one screw noticeably went in at an angle, though i was able to compensate for the perceived inaccuracy on the other mount, but i could tell on the second it was off, so I will have to adjust that entire hole centre to match up with the bindings true location. Not a big deal, I can do this with or without a drill press - a drill press would just make the issues of being 'vertical' a non-issue - but am more wondering about the accuracy of the template.

[1000-oaks]

If I have wood core skis I like to put thin CA (crazy glue with the consistency of water) into the holes AFTER tapping so that it seeps into the wood threads and fibers around the hole and wood thread to make it stronger. (balsa wood model airplane building trick.) As for putting epoxy and how much and where, less is more.

That's genius, but I should have never read this. The OCD voices in my head will be on my ass next time I mount without doing this...

Actually I kind of do the same thing already by swabbing epoxy into all of the tapped holes and letting it soak for a minute before adding a bit more epoxy just before putting in the inserts.

[~mikey b]

Time to pull the trigger on some inserts and bits and such. I've got 4 pair of skis that could use 'em. 2 old and 2 "new". I'll start with the 2 that are already drilled, then move on to the freshies.

Thanks for all the tips y'all!

[Shorty_J]

Mounted two more fucking pairs of skis this week, and will have 2 or 3 more Fucking pairs to do next week (friends know I mount skis).

So easy... Just do it!

Sent from my SGH-I717D using TGR Forums

[Ivan Oder]

My issue is not with bit 'walking' or 'wandering' - I'm not a dummy with tools (though no professional). I noticed the error with the templates prior to drilling and did my best to compensate when tapping with the tap from jondrums (pretty fine tap - no nail, but not a fat tap).

Fortunately, I am going to ski the skis for a few days before installing inserts so these installs are basically a practice run, after my other practice runs. My issue is one screw noticeably went in at an angle, though i was able to compensate for the perceived inaccuracy on the other mount, but i could tell on the second it was off, so I will have to adjust that entire hole centre to match up with the bindings true location. Not a big deal, I can do this with or without a drill press - a drill press would just make the issues of being 'vertical' a non-issue - but am more wondering about the accuracy of the template.

I've found the templates to be accurate and so have others, so I am surprised that they would be off. Then again I've only drilled for FKS/Pivot, DynaFit Radical and Large first gen Dukes, so it's possible. I check all new templates on a 2x4 scrap first. (FKS is sort of a bitch.)
The templates are sort of 'low resolution' with thick lines so it's easy to get errors if you don't line things up exactly or goof on making the ski center line. I use digital calipers to double check hole spacing, edge to hole spacing and all that before drilling.

[Ivan Oder]

Mounted two more fucking pairs of skis this week, and will have 2 or 3 more Fucking pairs to do next week (friends know I mount skis).

Don't you love that? At first my friends were like 'Dude, you'll fuck it up, take it to a shop!'

On the hill they are like 'did you rip your binding out yet?'

A week later they are at your door with their new shit and a case of beer.

Same goes for waxing and edges.
(I race tuned my JONG friend's snowboard for shits and giggles and first run he eats shit because he's not used to dragless sliding and edges that work.)

[Ivan Oder]

That's genius, but I should have never read this. The OCD voices in my head will be on my ass next time I mount without doing this...

Actually I kind of do the same thing already by swabbing epoxy into all of the tapped holes and letting it soak for a minute before adding a bit more epoxy just before putting in the inserts.

I'm sure you'll be fine. I'm sure we've all seen the pull out test of these things and they're not going to come out unless you go all Hulk on tightening the screws and twist the thing. (Like I did... once.)

I fill the holes up with CA like a little cup and I come back and install the insert when it's all absorbed into the wood.

[Cocximus]

CA=cyanoacrylate ?

Doese't it dry quicly? How would the wood absorb it? How is it better than epoxy?

[gregL]

Another reason for the interest in the drill press is that I think it will allow me to slightly alter hole locations if necessary when remounting (I read inserts have less tolerance for location accuracy, which makes sense) and I'm not positive the paper template is 100% accurate - I got one hole, same hole on each binding - that was slightly off on the template compared to the bindings (rear left was approx 1-2mm too far outside). Anyone else have this issue? All the other holes were spot on.

Try printing another template, maybe using a different printer - could be due to uneven printer feed or crap on the rubber rollers. I just printed out a new one to check, and the hole spacing on the two sets of toe holes seems identical (29.98mm center-to-center, but guessing on the centers as the crosshairs are pretty thick).

[Ivan Oder]

CA=cyanoacrylate ?

Doese't it dry quicly? How would the wood absorb it? How is it better than epoxy?

The point is not to replace epoxy with CA, you still need epoxy. The strength of the epoxy bond is only as good as the wood threads that its screwed into.

Wood is a porous material that absorbs liquids. By absorbing thin CA in to the pores and fibers and then having the CA cure in the wood, it reinforces and hardens the wood threads.

It's done for balsa wood models all the time where strength is needed when a screw is needed to bolt something to the wood. (Balsa wood is very soft.) Usually where a servo controlled lever screws into a wing surface.

Here's the stuff, it has the consistency of water so it penetrates deep:

http://hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?...GC&tag1_i=1073


I should add that you do not want to do this with foam core skis and CA can dissolve foam.

[NatEE]

My issue is not with bit 'walking' or 'wandering' - I'm not a dummy with tools (though no professional). I noticed the error with the templates prior to drilling and did my best to compensate when tapping with the tap from jondrums (pretty fine tap - no nail, but not a fat tap).

Fortunately, I am going to ski the skis for a few days before installing inserts so these installs are basically a practice run, after my other practice runs. My issue is one screw noticeably went in at an angle, though i was able to compensate for the perceived inaccuracy on the other mount, but i could tell on the second it was off, so I will have to adjust that entire hole centre to match up with the bindings true location. Not a big deal, I can do this with or without a drill press - a drill press would just make the issues of being 'vertical' a non-issue - but am more wondering about the accuracy of the template.

Will use this opportunity to recommend the drill block Jon sells. Really easy to use, and feel like I get better mounts with it. The couple I did before I got it were fine, never had any actual problems, but I do notice slight angles in the screws when switching bindings. Since picking up the tap block things are nice and straight.

[angrysasquatch]

Will use this opportunity to recommend the drill block Jon sells. Really easy to use, and feel like I get better mounts with it. The couple I did before I got it were fine, never had any actual problems, but I do notice slight angles in the screws when switching bindings. Since picking up the tap block things are nice and straight.

Yuppppp. I can't drill straight for shit, the guide block plus the stepped bits easily halved my time. Tried using a drill press when I had access to my dad's tools still, but it's just not very good, found freehand was better. Bit can wander in any direction with equal ease, and it gives you no feedback when it does, have to readjust your depth to account for the changing core thickness, etc. The guide block with bits will run you a lot less money and give you much better and faster results.

[Shorty_J]

(I race tuned my JONG friend's snowboard for shits and giggles and first run he eats shit because he's not used to dragless sliding and edges that work.)

Ha ha!

Sent from my SGH-I717D using TGR Forums

[huhh]

Yuppppp. I can't drill straight for shit, the guide block plus the stepped bits easily halved my time. Tried using a drill press when I had access to my dad's tools still, but it's just not very good, found freehand was better. Bit can wander in any direction with equal ease, and it gives you no feedback when it does, have to readjust your depth to account for the changing core thickness, etc. The guide block with bits will run you a lot less money and give you much better and faster results.

You're supposed to clamp down the ski when you use a drill press.

[skimaxpower]

The point is not to replace epoxy with CA, you still need epoxy. The strength of the epoxy bond is only as good as the wood threads that its screwed into.

Wood is a porous material that absorbs liquids. By absorbing thin CA in to the pores and fibers and then having the CA cure in the wood, it reinforces and hardens the wood threads.

It's done for balsa wood models all the time where strength is needed when a screw is needed to bolt something to the wood. (Balsa wood is very soft.) Usually where a servo controlled lever screws into a wing surface.

Here's the stuff, it has the consistency of water so it penetrates deep:

http://hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?...GC&tag1_i=1073

I should add that you do not want to do this with foam core skis and CA can dissolve foam.

This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

[wildmanwillie]

Just finished fucking mounting my fucking protests. Used Jondrums template for plum guide and found it accurate. Might have over torqued, but no spinners. Time will tell; fingers crossed.

[Cocximus]

I don't really trust a drill press depth adjustment. I rather use a shoulder on the bit.

[Ivan Oder]

I don't really trust a drill press depth adjustment. I rather use a shoulder on the bit.

That's what I do, but those fuckers have a tendency to move up the bit / loosen the more you drill, especially if the set screw isn't super tight. (Use loctite!)
One other poster here suggested using thick block and sliding the bit back into it and the chuck so that only that depth which is needed is exposed, which is a good idea.
I have a scrap 2x4 chunk hat has a hole of the exact depth (measured with calipers) so I just stick the bit in there and slide the collar down and lock it. I check it in this hole before every drill to make sure it hasn't wandered.

The tools sold for the mounts are a good purchase too if you plan on doing more than one mount, which you will when you see how awesome it is. Some stuff can be hard to find locally.

[skibummin]

I mounted some marker griffon's last night and everything went well. Just wanted to give anyone else trying to mount griffon/jesters a heads up that the template is a little off. I moved the rearmost holes on the heel back about 2mm on my template. Everything came out perfect after figuring out the pattern had changed slightly.

This was my first mount; next up, some rossi axial2's on my wifes new skis.

[meter-man]

Mounted my own fucking skis with LightRanger. Sollyfits on 183 bros (AK made) and inserts for sth 16 and plums on Bibbys. First time mounting. Learned a ton and had a lot of fun too. I also learned that mounting inserts IS difficult...

[spotted dogs]

Mounted 2 fuckin pairs tonight. The girl grom got some century's and ffg's and I get some BG's and Guardians! First sets ever.... Went pretty smooth. Waited till I was done to have a drink though.

[Driver]

The point is not to replace epoxy with CA, you still need epoxy. The strength of the epoxy bond is only as good as the wood threads that its screwed into.

Interesting. Would it be better to just use helicoil OR BF inserts to increase the strength of the threads? Been thinking about ways to strengthen the threads for my tech toes which i'm going to shim up on longer screws.

(Use loctite!)

Are people using loctite in addition to Epoxy in a standard mount (no insert), or do you just mean loctite for use in inserts? Using Ivans method, you would apply 3 chemicals in the process (if I understand correctly):

CA filling hole until absorbed ---> Small Amount of Epoxy in Hole ---> Loctite to Screw


Second, question: is it still beneficial to countersink if you tap the screw hole, or is tapping alone sufficient? Thanks.

[skimaxpower]

Are people using loctite in addition to Epoxy in a standard mount (no insert), or do you just mean loctite for use in inserts?

DO NOT USE LOCTITE. Definitely do not use loctite to adhere inserts to the wood core of a ski. Definitely do not use loctite to adhere binding screws to the wood core of a ski. An appropriate glue or epoxy should be used in both of these circumstances.

The only acceptable use for loctite is to use blue (NOT RED) loctite to make sure screws don't rattle out of inserts. Mostly snowboarders do this because all snowboards have inserts. Some tele skis come with inserts from the factory. And a few TGR geeks have added inserts to their skis. But Loctite exists to make screws stick to metal. You shouldn't be putting Loctite anywhere near your wood core.

But again - DO NOT USE LOCTITE for two reasons: 1) it's really not necessary for plates or inserts etc, and you're better off just inspecting your gear after each use to make sure stuff is tight, and 2) Loctite will react with the plastic in your bindings and can damage your gear. Instead, use Vibratite which (reportedly) doesn't damage your plastic bindings.