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  1. #3376
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Yeah. Chuck the screw in a drill and reduce the diameter (not the height) of the head against a file/die grinder/belt sander.

    The stock screws are small heads, which have become unobtanium in M5 screws for inserts.
    Noticeable difference pre and post grind. Thanks.

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  2. #3377
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,077
    Maybe you took a short cut and it worked OR

    https://www.google.com/search?client...&bih=632&dpr=1

    Image result ^^ for the swiss cheese model


    Swiss cheesing a ski is actulay the perfect analogy for " the swiss cheese model " for failure, in the Swiss cheese model, an organisation's defenses against failure are modeled as a series of barriers, represented as slices of cheese. The holes in the slices represent weaknesses in individual parts of the system and are continually varying in size and position across the slices.

    Also works for HW failure, car accidents, the 737 MAX or anywhere you might get away with 1 mistake but 3 happen at once maybe you are FUBARed ?

    I have seen a ski swiss cheesed to destruction, buddy had elongating existing binding screw holes to put cants under the binding AND it was a foam core slalom ski AND he was a 280lb wild man with banzai ski style AND it was a very steep mogul field AND the ski snapped clean in half ... when all the AND s lined up the ski failed

    Take away any AND , maybe the ski would not have broke

    which is why best practices help avoid failure
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #3378
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    12,455

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Iím gonna throw in support for Titebond III:
    It flexes; it adheres to wood appropriately; it is waterproof.

    Agree on the Swiss cheese model ó thereís a point at which youíve created weaknesses in the original matrix that act as catalysts for failure. Pretending a specific glue solves this is deluding oneself. All weíre doing with filling holes is helping create a solidity that helps prevent a screw pullout, no more. It isnít helping the skiís continuity as a structure.

  4. #3379
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    MSP
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    What are those? Not recognizing the topsheet. Looks like some metal in there, from the chips?
    Looks like a Kastle FX106 HP.

  5. #3380
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,402
    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    Iím gonna throw in support for Titebond III:
    It flexes; it adheres to wood appropriately; it is waterproof.

    Agree on the Swiss cheese model ó thereís a point at which youíve created weaknesses in the original matrix that act as catalysts for failure. Pretending a specific glue solves this is deluding oneself. All weíre doing with filling holes is helping create a solidity that helps prevent a screw pullout, no more. It isnít helping the skiís continuity as a structure.
    My biggest concern with Swiss cheese would be the inability to flex the same way as a continuous piece of wood. As far as strength goes, the glue is stronger than the wood anyway.

    I was looking for a link to back up that claim and stumbled across the following: https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . Not sure how scientific that is, but it's pretty fuckin interesting in the context of all the above flack.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  6. #3381
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,077
    ergo we could just build skis out of glue ?

    or is that what a foam core ski is ?

    and how much do we love that ?

    what exactly is strongth any way ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #3382
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by mattig View Post
    https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . Not sure how scientific that is, but it's pretty fuckin interesting in the context of all the above flack.
    From the foot notes of the citation above.:
    I have since found out that 48 hours at 18 degrees may not be enough time for epoxy to reach its full strength, so my results may not be representative of fully cured epoxy glue.
    The test I reference above tested TB-III (Tite Bond III) in a wet environment. I know TB claims it's waterproof, but the tests I've seen show very poor performance in wet environments. How applicable those tests are to plugging ski mounts is debatable. I just know I'd never use TB in any situation where I expected any moisture in any application.


    If you're interested - see this at the 12:10 mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoaTZY5cSQE

    The TLDR version is: The TB-III (and TB-II and regular TB) test pieces were simply left outdoors in the rain/snow/cold/frost. The test blocks failed, mostly, before they could even be put into the load-test apparatus.

    Still all that said - how all that testing applies in this particular application is pretty unknown.

  8. #3383
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,402
    I appreciate the extra research and clarification. I think the tests aren't ever going to apply perfectly to this application.

    My only research = several years of bindings going on and off the ski with no spinners on the 4 holes in question. That said, I don't think the adhesive matters much for that purpose as long as the dowels stay put.

    Next throw away ski I have, maybe I'll do a few pull out tests with overlapping screw holes. I'll be more careful this time as the last time I failed a pull out test, it was very costly. Screw holes didn't overlap in that case , thankfully.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  9. #3384
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    12,455

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Wet and/or cold will certainly not help bonding/curing

    I suspect the vid was not anywhere near recommended conditions

    Winter garage temps certainly not recommended for curing your skis ó get them inside to cure overnight

  10. #3385
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,261
    So I canít remember where I posted my kids SL race skis getting screwed up.

    Anyway. Got a deal on new skis (shop I bought them from not the shop that dimpled the bases). Had shop I bought skis from mount the new SL skis. Little rubber foot wasnít in place on jig so holes were 3 mm to the left on both skis.

    Set number 3 on the way....these are free.

    MOUNT YOUR OWN FUCKING SKIS.

    wife now on board w me doing it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  11. #3386
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,801
    Don't most kids race skis have raceplates?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  12. #3387
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Don't most kids race skis have raceplates?
    Pretty sure that's where the saga started. First shop mounted without said plates and dimpled the bases.

  13. #3388
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    9,801
    Oh my. The skis come from the factory with plates, who would take of a plate from a race ski then try to mount them flat? I guess this shop did, but that's crazy.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  14. #3389
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    326
    Indeed. Mount your own fuckin' skis, eh?

  15. #3390
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,077
    Quote Originally Posted by mattig View Post
    My biggest concern with Swiss cheese would be the inability to flex the same way as a continuous piece of wood. As far as strength goes, the glue is stronger than the wood anyway.

    I was looking for a link to back up that claim and stumbled across the following: https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . Not sure how scientific that is, but it's pretty fuckin interesting in the context of all the above flack.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Not very scientific and buddy was talking about ww glue 2 pieces of wood togetehr and do a shear test on the joint which is not ski mounting,

    ski mounting would be different again than even ski building
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #3391
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,261
    The very smallest sizes (129 in this case) come w ďliftersĒ that are mounted w longer screws beneath the bindings. If you add a plate the kid isnít heavy enough to flex them.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  17. #3392
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,503
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    What are those? Not recognizing the topsheet. Looks like some metal in there, from the chips?
    Quote Originally Posted by FLYBOYMATTHEW View Post
    Looks like a Kastle FX106 HP.
    Yep. Pretty stoked so far
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  18. #3393
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Portland by way of Bozeman
    Posts
    2,899
    It was touch and go. Mounted yet another pair of sticks last night. Hell, it was so gnarly, I had to drink two beers.

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    Think snow, you maggots!

  19. #3394
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    145
    Looks like you were shiyterz. Youíve mounted one to the bench. Double ipa no doubt.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  20. #3395
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,496
    Mounted the atris for my wife. She should be stoked.

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    Re-finding center line. I use one of these and mark 2 inches in from each side (on 108 mm width ski) at 3 or 4 points up the ski and then it’s super easy to just mark the center between each of the two marks you make and straight line on the center marks.

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  21. #3396
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    832
    Finding center geometrically with a compass is super easy and unless you're using a micrometer potentially more accurate.
    Take your compass Trammell rod what have you and set it a distance more than half way. Spin your compass and draw a semi circle. Then go to the opposite side of the ski. With the compass set at the same width from an opposite but corresponding location draw the same but opposite semi circle. At the two points of intersection you have your centerline... Double check with a ruler should be good to go.

    Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk

  22. #3397
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher View Post
    Finding center geometrically with a compass is super easy and unless you're using a micrometer potentially more accurate.
    Take your compass Trammell rod what have you and set it a distance more than half way. Spin your compass and draw a semi circle. Then go to the opposite side of the ski. With the compass set at the same width from an opposite but corresponding location draw the same but opposite semi circle. At the two points of intersection you have your centerline... Double check with a ruler should be good to go.

    Sent from my I3123 using Tapatalk
    The last time I tried this technique, I had trouble finding reliable, repeatable points to pivot the compass about. What did you use for your "opposite but corresponding location"? The ledge formed by the ski's edge? What did you reference your ruler to when verifying? Several people I know use edge of the top sheet, but that's too variable for my tastes.

    On a related note, I picked up a pair of combo squares last week. I haven't used them yet, but the concept looks as solid as it's reported to being.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  23. #3398
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Whistler
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    The last time I tried this technique, I had trouble finding reliable, repeatable points to pivot the compass about. What did you use for your "opposite but corresponding location"? The ledge formed by the ski's edge? What did you reference your ruler to when verifying? Several people I know use edge of the top sheet, but that's too variable for my tastes.
    I make sure the ski is flat on the bench, and put the compass point on the bottom of the edge where it meets the bench.

  24. #3399
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,402
    My last few mounts I did without templates, I just used a combo square to get a reliable measurement from the base edge and then adjusted so that calipers were on center for each screw hole from either side. Top sheets would have given me a different result by a millimeter or two.

    On that note, how many of you think you can tell when a binding is a millimeter or two off the center line?




    Quote Originally Posted by klauss View Post
    Mounted the atris for my wife. She should be stoked.

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    Re-finding center line. I use one of these and mark 2 inches in from each side (on 108 mm width ski) at 3 or 4 points up the ski and then itís super easy to just mark the center between each of the two marks you make and straight line on the center marks.

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    Why not just trace the triangle from both sides and Mark where they intersect?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  25. #3400
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,077
    I don't think anyone could feel 1 mm

    Cool ! an even simpler way to mark ski center ^^ hold the T square against the steel edges, draw the 45 degree lines and where they intersect will be ski center so NO measuring but its always good to check by measuring

    And so you have realized a template is really not necessary, IME one can just use the actual binding as the template for the holes, the bigger question is where to put those pieces fore-aft on the ski ?

    For the toe its easier, so I find and mark the boot center on the boot, I use the square on ski top to line the boot center up with ski center or where ever I want boot center to be on the ski, mark and drill

    After the toe where to mount the heel is more of a head scratcher, or more acurately where to have the rear binding in its adjustment range when you drill is where a template is nice but not necessary, take/make the measurement between front and rear screw holes the same on either ski, if I can measure that distance on a shop mounted ski that the binding had been mounted on I will use that
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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