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  1. #3001
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    92
    On the Tyrolia Attacks not screwing down flush to the ski, the problem is due to Tyrolia not drilling the rear two holes in the heel assembly large enough. The screws index into the heel piece like it were threaded, and "snug down" before pulling the binding plate flush onto the ski. Pull the heel tower off the plate, drill the holes out just enough that the threads no longer catch in the hole, reassemble, and that sumbitch will tighten flush to the ski just fine. I've mentioned this to my local Tyrolia rep and he agrees that it's an issue, but they're unwilling to fix it because then the screws will fall out of the binding in the box. It's dumb as fuck, but at least it's easy to fix.

    Same goes for some older Dynafits in my experience. If the screw can't freely rotate in the binding, it might not want to suck down onto the ski.

  2. #3002
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    10% touching does not meet my personal standards, but you might be good to go anyway...hard to know if the holes got damaged when you inserted screws. As I wrote before, a "dry run" beforehand would have given you a chance to see if your technique results in immediately damaged holes.

    My personal risk tolerance is I would guinea pig the hell out of it before I would ever let any friends borrow it. And I'd start off by skiing them in a low consequence situation (inbounds), and incrementally increase the consequences until I gained full confidence. Definitely likely that you might never have any sign of any trouble at all.

    .
    What do you mean the holes got damaged? These are new holes.

    Also could you elaborate more on what you mean by "dry run"?

  3. #3003
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Masshole
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    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    True. I use a couple spring clamps after setting it to keep it in place


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Thanks, it can't hurt. Waiting on new brakes to finish my mount (L9 sent the wrong ones 🤦🏻♂️) and see what happens.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Why don't you go practice fallin' down? I'll be there in a minute.

  4. #3004
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Masshole
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    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    On the Tyrolia Attacks not screwing down flush to the ski, the problem is due to Tyrolia not drilling the rear two holes in the heel assembly large enough. The screws index into the heel piece like it were threaded, and "snug down" before pulling the binding plate flush onto the ski. Pull the heel tower off the plate, drill the holes out just enough that the threads no longer catch in the hole, reassemble, and that sumbitch will tighten flush to the ski just fine. I've mentioned this to my local Tyrolia rep and he agrees that it's an issue, but they're unwilling to fix it because then the screws will fall out of the binding in the box. It's dumb as fuck, but at least it's easy to fix.

    Same goes for some older Dynafits in my experience. If the screw can't freely rotate in the binding, it might not want to suck down onto the ski.
    Awesome thanks and yes that is a shit answer

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Why don't you go practice fallin' down? I'll be there in a minute.

  5. #3005
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,258
    Screws remain too long though


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  6. #3006
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,505
    I always tap all holes, which means you should slso knock out the plastic tabs in binding baseplates with a round file, as mentioned above. Those tabs hold the screws in the bindings during shipment, but they interfere with the screw threads lining up with the tapped threads in the ski. The screws should spin freely in the bindings, so you can accurately feel what's going on when tightening the screws in the ski.

  7. #3007
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw
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    2,042
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    What do you mean the holes got damaged? These are new holes.

    Also could you elaborate more on what you mean by "dry run"?
    You're probably fine. But yes, just the act of inserting a screw into a brand new hole can damage the inner walls of that new hole, especially if the screw is inserted carelessly. I think you know that a "spinner" is one way to damage a new hole. Another way is a "volcano" visible at the top surface, which could be considered a form of "upward deformation damage" to the inner walls of the new hole (although volcano damage is typically not severe). And if your new hole partially overlaps with a dowel plug, then that dowel is now part of the inner wall of the new hole, and now that dowel can also experience "upward deformation damage" as the screw gets driven into the new hole, not unlike the typical volcano effect. It would be bad if the whole dowel somehow moved/deformed upward as a result of driving the screw down---which is possible, depending on your methods. Perhaps the worst outcome is when people insert a screw so carelessly into a metal topsheet that the metal gets driven upwards and delams away from the wood core, which seems more likely to happen when people don't use a real tap tool on the metal.

    Next time, if you insert the screw only, as a "dry run" to perform the forceful self-tapping BEFORE mounting the actual binding, then you will be able to see any possible deformation before you place the actual binding on top of the hole (which then blocks your view of the hole). I always seem to get a tiny bit of volcano on my dry runs, but ideally there would be no volcano at all. At least my dry run allows me to see how good or bad the volcano is BEFORE I mount the actual binding. By "dry run" screw insertion, I mean insert the screw only, like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    .
    - TRADE your heavy BILLYGOATS or PROTESTS for my lightweight versions at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  8. #3008
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    You're probably fine. But yes, just the act of inserting a screw into a brand new hole can damage the inner walls of that new hole, especially if the screw is inserted carelessly. I think you know that a "spinner" is one way to damage a new hole. Another way is a "volcano" visible at the top surface, which could be considered a form of "upward deformation damage" to the inner walls of the new hole (although volcano damage is typically not severe). And if your new hole partially overlaps with a dowel plug, then that dowel is now part of the inner wall of the new hole, and now that dowel can also experience "upward deformation damage" as the screw gets driven into the new hole, not unlike the typical volcano effect. It would be bad if the whole dowel somehow moved/deformed upward as a result of driving the screw down---which is possible, depending on your methods. Perhaps the worst outcome is when people insert a screw so carelessly into a metal topsheet that the metal gets driven upwards and delams away from the wood core, which seems more likely to happen when people don't use a real tap tool on the metal.

    Next time, if you insert the screw only, as a "dry run" to perform the forceful self-tapping BEFORE mounting the actual binding, then you will be able to see any possible deformation before you place the actual binding on top of the hole (which then blocks your view of the hole). I always seem to get a tiny bit of volcano on my dry runs, but ideally there would be no volcano at all. At least my dry run allows me to see how good or bad the volcano is BEFORE I mount the actual binding. By "dry run" screw insertion, I mean insert the screw only, like this:


    .
    Okay, so in summary you're screwing in the holes without the binding mounted = dry run. This is to check for volcanoes, gotcha. But what's the point? Say you do get some volcanoes. It's not like you're going to go with a whole new set of holes because some of the holes volcanoed. Or do you let them volcano and then cut them flush with the ski, which eliminate a gap between the binding and the ski?

  9. #3009
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    I just use a normal drill bit to drill binding holes so I will get Volcanos when I run the screws in

    SO I chamfer the top of the hole with a sharp 5/16ths bit, before I put in any screws

    I rotate the 5/16th bit by hand not very deep, just enough to take the top sheet off

    so that top sheet material that causes the volcano is cut away before it can make a Volcano
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #3010
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    722

    PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Okay, so in summary you're screwing in the holes without the binding mounted = dry run. This is to check for volcanoes, gotcha. But what's the point? Say you do get some volcanoes. It's not like you're going to go with a whole new set of holes because some of the holes volcanoed. Or do you let them volcano and then cut them flush with the ski, which eliminate a gap between the binding and the ski?
    I think heís saying that if you see the hole deform and the screw migrate into your old hole, the one that overlaps your new hole, then you might assume thereís a problem. If the screw goes straight in with no weirdness, as if it was going into a hole that didnít overlap another hole, then you can have some confidence.

  11. #3011
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
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    3,836
    Quick spin with this brass coloured taper bit after drilling the holes... don't take too much... just widen the hole in the top mm of the top sheet.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  12. #3012
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    I think heís saying that if you see the hole deform and the screw migrate into your old hole, the one that overlaps your new hole, then you might assume thereís a problem. If the screw goes straight in with no weirdness, as if it was going into a hole that didnít overlap another hole, then you can have some confidence.
    Ah gotcha. That makes sense. I've always thought the bigger danger was the drill bit migrating into old hole when pre-drilling, but good to keep an eye out for.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I just use a normal drill bit to drill binding holes so I will get Volcanos when I run the screws in

    SO I chamfer the top of the hole with a sharp 5/16ths bit, before I put in any screws

    I rotate the 5/16th bit by hand not very deep, just enough to take the top sheet off

    so that top sheet material that causes the volcano is cut away before it can make a Volcano
    Yep, this is what I currently do even when using a binding mounting drill bit.

  13. #3013
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Ya the chamfered part on a real mounting bit ^^ is under the step and that is all the material that needs to be removed,
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #3014
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    972
    Had a real fail last night. Went to go finally mount my new Protests with STH2 16s out in the garage. Had everything ready to go. Had the templates all lined up perfectly and then went to double check the holes with the bindings and realized i had the wrong templates. Then i also realized i was missing a heelpiece screw. shit.

    Looks like itll be another week till i can swing by a shop to grab an extra screw.

  15. #3015
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Ya the chamfered part on a real mounting bit ^^ is under the step and that is all the material that needs to be removed,
    Cool I didn't know that

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

  16. #3016
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Puget Oceania
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Had a real fail last night. Went to go finally mount my new Protests with STH2 16s out in the garage. Had everything ready to go. Had the templates all lined up perfectly and then went to double check the holes with the bindings and realized i had the wrong templates. Then i also realized i was missing a heelpiece screw. shit.

    Looks like itll be another week till i can swing by a shop to grab an extra screw.
    Sounds more like a false start than a fail!
    Chronic Complainer Experiencing Ikon Cognitive Dissonance Since 2018

  17. #3017
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Had a real fail last night. Went to go finally mount my new Protests with STH2 16s out in the garage. Had everything ready to go. Had the templates all lined up perfectly and then went to double check the holes with the bindings and realized i had the wrong templates. Then i also realized i was missing a heelpiece screw. shit.

    Looks like itll be another week till i can swing by a shop to grab an extra screw.
    I just use the binding as the template cuz its always the right one, the only difficult part is where on the ski to put the binding in relation to ski/boot center, not the actual hole pattern and it has always worked for me

    but its mutherfucking heresy eh and if anyone else trys it their pickup truck will stop working and their wife will leave them
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #3018
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw
    Posts
    2,042
    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    I think heís saying that if you see the hole deform and the screw migrate into your old hole, the one that overlaps your new hole, then you might assume thereís a problem. If the screw goes straight in with no weirdness, as if it was going into a hole that didnít overlap another hole, then you can have some confidence.
    Yeah, my point was: If you suspect that any hole might possibly end up as sketchy, then a dry run will help you to first see how good or bad that hole responds to a screw being driven into it, to gain or lose confidence in the hole BEFORE you mount the actual binding piece. Standard volcano deformation is NOT sketchy, IMO. But partial overlap of a new hole with a doweled/plugged hole is INDEED possibly sketchy, so a dry run lets you see if something goes wrong or not. If something goes wrong with the dowel/plug, then start over and re-dowel/re-plug that hole using better methods than whatever method failed.

    ALSO, I am saying that there is another way for an overlapping hole to fail besides lucknau's mentioned failure of a screw migrating into the old plugged hole. I'm saying it is ALSO possible for a dowel/plug to get driven UPWARD in a way that can be worse than mere "volcano-ing". Heck, it's even possible for a poorly bonded dowel to completely detach and pull out upwards, depending on how good or bad your methods are. But anyway, after you dial in your methods for epoxied dowels/plugs/screw insertion/etc., then you can gain confidence in your methods and not worry about it.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy BILLYGOATS or PROTESTS for my lightweight versions at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  19. #3019
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    Yeah, my point was: If you suspect that any hole might possibly end up as sketchy, then a dry run will help you to first see how good or bad that hole responds to a screw being driven into it, to gain or lose confidence in the hole BEFORE you mount the actual binding piece. Standard volcano deformation is NOT sketchy, IMO. But partial overlap of a new hole with a doweled/plugged hole is INDEED possibly sketchy, so a dry run lets you see if something goes wrong or not. If something goes wrong with the dowel/plug, then start over and re-dowel/re-plug that hole using better methods than whatever method failed.

    ALSO, I am saying that there is another way for an overlapping hole to fail besides lucknau's mentioned failure of a screw migrating into the old plugged hole. I'm saying it is ALSO possible for a dowel/plug to get driven UPWARD in a way that can be worse than mere "volcano-ing". Heck, it's even possible for a poorly bonded dowel to completely detach and pull out upwards, depending on how good or bad your methods are. But anyway, after you dial in your methods for epoxied dowels/plugs/screw insertion/etc., then you can gain confidence in your methods and not worry about it.

    .
    Okay, so lets say the dowel hole responds fine, but you drive the screw in and it is a sketchy hole. What route do you take to fix it? The only thing that comes to mind is an insert.

  20. #3020
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Okay, so lets say the dowel hole responds fine, but you drive the screw in and it is a sketchy hole. What route do you take to fix it? The only thing that comes to mind is an insert.
    People have posted methods in this huge thread. Like helicoil, or brass tap-in insert, or nylon tap-in insert, or stainless steel M5 threaded insert, or mounting plate, or plug with mixture of shredded fiberglass & epoxy, or plug with mixture of shredded steel wool & epoxy, and/or re-dowel the hole using methods better than whatever method failed the first time.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy BILLYGOATS or PROTESTS for my lightweight versions at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  21. #3021
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Squaw
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    I freeballed another 4 mounts on some old ski models.
    - Whitedot Ragnarok 193cm 2013, Salomon S900 DIN=16
    - Rossignol Squad7 190cm 2013, Salomon S900 DIN=20
    - Dynastar Legend Pro 194cm 2008, mismatched FKS DIN=15
    - 4FRNT KYE 110 188cm 2017, Salomon S900 DIN=16
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    - TRADE your heavy BILLYGOATS or PROTESTS for my lightweight versions at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

  22. #3022
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    From doing back to back testing on a demo binding, I can't feel the difference moving the boot center 1cm makes, maybe on a hard snow ski ?

    SO do you really need to put that new mount here you did OR could you have moved it 1 cm ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #3023
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,053
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    From doing back to back testing on a demo binding, I can't feel the difference moving the boot center 1cm makes, maybe on a hard snow ski ?
    How noticeable binding position is changes a lot from ski to ski. Some skis I don't notice it at all. Some skis .5 cm is noticeable.

  24. #3024
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Ya the chamfered part on a real mounting bit ^^ is under the step and that is all the material that needs to be removed,
    I always wondered about this...I noticed that the drill bit would remove a nice bit of topsheet if I drilled far enough, but I didn't realize it was actually a GOOD thing. Will be sure to do that from now on.

    Great info in this thread as always.

  25. #3025
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Squaw
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    From doing back to back testing on a demo binding, I can't feel the difference moving the boot center 1cm makes, maybe on a hard snow ski ?

    SO do you really need to put that new mount here you did OR could you have moved it 1 cm ?
    On some skis, I can feel a difference of 0.4cm. But still I put WAY higher priority on dodging old holes than positioning the bindings at my precise favorite position.

    Also, when the hole conflict is in the heel only, then you can often drill the heel 0.7-1.0cm away from what a jig indicates (to dodge old holes), and then just adjust the mounted heel piece 0.7-1.0cm to compensate. No need to move the toe piece, if no hole conflict in the toes---in which case your boot center stays where you wanted it, even though you drilled the heel 0.7-1.0cm away from what a jig indicates.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy BILLYGOATS or PROTESTS for my lightweight versions at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

    "I'm gonna go SO OFF that NO ONE's ever gonna see what I'm gonna do!" -Saucerboy

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