Mandatory ski patrol beacon choice

[darkstar1974]

The ability of the 3+ and S1+ to avoid transmission on a vertically oriented antenna does not at all mean (whether theoretically or otherwise) that they will be found first.

I was unsure what he meant by this as well. Can't imagine that to be true.

This has been a great thread so far.

[snoboy]

Barryvox and probably others have the option to manage a fleet of beacons, and maintain records of testing in house that would prove that the beacons were up to date, inspected etc. I would imagine that is very attractive to an insurance company.

I'm sure that you could do the same with careful record keeping etc on a fleet of older (1 antenna) beacons but that it would require more work.

With Professional organizations such as the Canadian Avalance Centre unequivocaly stating that anything less than a 3 antenna digital beacon is outdated tech, I would be hesitant as a business owner to allow employees or guests to use anything else. Being held to the 'industry standard' or the 'reasonable person' and all...

[srface_hoar]

The ability of the 3+ and S1+ to avoid transmission on a vertically oriented antenna does not at all mean (whether theoretically or otherwise) that they will be found first.

Jonathan,

Keep in mind this is pure theoretical in nature and may have a low probability of occurring in real life. If you are receiving a stronger signal from a re-oriented beacon because of the vertical antenna, compared to a signal from another beacon a short distance away, the rescuer should find the strongest signal first. This would probably require both victims to be in a vertical orientation and within close proximity; however, it certainly is not out of the question.

There are a number of other cases in which beacons with faster pulse rates were found first compared to some of the slower pulse rate beacons of the past. Do a comparison and see which beacon will be found first by burying an F1 Focus and a newer beacon. Make sure the beacons are within 10 meters of each other but same distance from the searcher. I will bet 9 times out of ten you will be focused on the new beacon.

Most people focus on the search features of the new beacons. There are actually advantages to the newer beacons when it comes to being searched for and those should not be discounted. Proper training will eliminate the search features with any beacon; however, it will not eliminate certain advantages you receive with newer beacons when you are the one buried.

[Hacksaw]

For you guys that still like/love the Ortovox F1, you may want to run out and buy a new one. I'm told that the f1 will be discontintued next season.

[Jonathan S.]

There is a reason I put my kids in the 3+ or S1+ because of the re-orientation if buried. Theoretically speaking, they should be found first in a multi-person burial.

Keep in mind this is pure theoretical in nature and may have a low probability of occurring in real life. If you are receiving a stronger signal from a re-oriented beacon because of the vertical antenna, compared to a signal from another beacon a short distance away, the rescuer should find the strongest signal first. This would probably require both victims to be in a vertical orientation and within close proximity; however, it certainly is not out of the question.

The second statement is considerably more nuanced than the first.

But even more caveats are necessary.
Here is what would need to happen for a 3+ or S1+ to change a victim's search order from 2nd (or lower) to 1st:
1. The party not only made a mistake in stability assessment, but also made a mistake in safe travel practices, allowing two party members to become fully buried.
2. The 3+/S1+ is buried in an orientation that -- but for the transmission shift -- would place the transmitting antenna in the vertical plane (or close to it).
3. The other antenna to which the 3+/S1+ shifts is optimally aligned (or close to it) with the searcher.
4. The "competing" victim's signal strength is greater than that of #2 above but less than that of #3 above.

That said, the antenna shift feature of the 3+/S1+ is definitely a plus (and a sign of Ortovox's impressive innovation).

[srface_hoar]

The second statement is considerably more nuanced than the first.

But even more caveats are necessary.
Here is what would need to happen for a 3+ or S1+ to change a victim's search order from 2nd (or lower) to 1st:
1. The party not only made a mistake in stability assessment, but also made a mistake in safe travel practices, allowing two party members to become fully buried.
2. The 3+/S1+ is buried in an orientation that -- but for the transmission shift -- would place the transmitting antenna in the vertical plane (or close to it).
3. The other antenna to which the 3+/S1+ shifts is optimally aligned (or close to it) with the searcher.
4. The "competing" victim's signal strength is greater than that of #2 above but less than that of #3 above.

That said, the antenna shift feature of the 3+/S1+ is definitely a plus (and a sign of Ortovox's impressive innovation).

So what you’re saying is this a likely scenario

I agree with all of your comments above. With that being said, when I am skiing inbounds with my 12 year old twins and my wife, they ski with the either an S1+ or the 3+ just in case. Maybe it just makes me feel better. After seeing all of the post control releases over the last couple of years, I tend to treat many of the inbounds slopes as if they are backcountry areas on a powder day. For all practical purposes, the re-orientation is probably more of marketing feature then a true advantage. Similar to the Pulse marketing feature or the DSP's ability to shut off a beacon using the iProbe. All of the manufactures are looking for ways to differentiate their products from the rest. It really amounts to your training and how much training you have had with your beacon.

[turboLT]

1 vs. 3 aside, I've seen firsthand how much better it is when things are standard and interchangeable. Minus the labelling problem it's nice to know you can pick up someone else's stuff and instantly know how to use it.

Seems to work pretty well in the military, fire departments, police, etc.

[Bunion 2020]

After seeing all of the post control releases over the last couple of years, I tend to treat many of the inbounds slopes as if they are backcountry areas on a powder day.

Not to change the subject, but. "After seeing all of the post control releases over the last couple of years"

Keep in mind that in the majority of the cases the PCRs have been early season, when areas/slopes are being opened for the first or nearly the first time.

Ski area avalanche hazard reduction is pretty damn good, but if it gives you peace of mind to be prepared I am all for it.

For me the peace of mind comes from having a bunch of people skiing around my area with a beacon, shovel and probe and being able to use them in an emergency as backups for a rescue. The neighboring area has had a couple of close call PCRs over the past few years and those locals who are equipped have come in very handy.

It really amounts to your training and how much training you have had with your beacon.

I believe I said that in my initial post.

Hacksaw, I have maybe 2 geezers who still prefer the F1, I will pass that tidbit along. Just bought a 3+ as a replacement for a T2. Looking forward to trying it out.