Dynafit Radicals vs Verticals?

[onequeston]

So, I have a two part question and I'm sure there are some folks on this forum that can help me out. First off, I'm deciding between the Dynafit TLT Radical ST (which I would be buying new) ... or I have the option of going with a slightly used set of TLT Vertical FTs (these are nice because the brakes already fit my ski and the binding is a little beefier)

I've heard that the Radicals are more step-in friendly. They have extra little platform pieces, or some shit, to help the pin holes on your boot find the pins on the binding. Anyway... my question is, does anyone seem to think that the Radicals are THAT MUCH better than the Verticals? Are the Verticals really more of a pain in the ass to step into? I've never owned Dynafits.

My other question is, has anyone slightly modified (or bent) the brake arms on their Dynafit binding to fit a slightly larger ski. (ie: is it stupid to think that I could bend a 110mm brake to fit a 115mm waist ski?)

Thanks for your insight. I'm new to this forum thing, so go easy on me.

[endure]

there is tons of information on all the dynafits if you use the search function.

I'd go for the FT's. DIN up to 12 and it really is not that difficult to match the pins up with your boot. I also am not much of a fan of the new heel unit.. just doesn't seem to me like it will last 5+ years of abuse.

You will be fine bending the brakes the extra 2.5 mm on either side. You can just pull them apart a little more.. clamp the metal in and pull. If it was a few cm, I'd straighten out the bend and re-bend farther along the brake

[D(C)]

You won't find too many people who have tried the Radical, but this is a good read: http://www.wildsnow.com/4828/dynafit...ountry-skiing/. Many people have the Verticals and like them a lot, so I don't think you can go wrong either way.

I'm not sure if the Radical brakes have changed, but the 110 brakes on the Verticals fit my 116 waisted 4frnt EHPs with just the slightest stretching.

[onequeston]

Awesome. Thanks guys.

[gregL]

The Radical series has supposedly fixed or proactively addressed some of the issues that people complained about with ST/FT bindings - cracking of toe arms (wider base support), tendency to pre-release in ski mode at toe (power towers), and tendency to auto-rotate into ski mode while skinning (heel only rotates clockwise with Radical). No one I know of, including Lou Dawson, has enough time on them yet to make a judgement on durability, but having seen them in person and handled them a bit, I have a good feeling about it (including the flip up climbing lifters, which seem substantial).

Should you buy a pair and be the guinea pig? Hard to say - the FT12 has proven durability for average sized non-extreme skiers . . . (the "beefier" look of the FT12 is illusory - the toe and hell are no stronger than the ST, it's just bulkier and heavier due to the mass of useless stuff connecting them). I'm ambivalent about the step-in only feature of the Radical - most times it's easier, sometimes it's nice to hook one side and roll your boot - you can do this with the FT12 but not the Radical ST.

[onequeston]

So, sorry to play the idiot here (feel free to address me as such) I'm sure I'm missing a whole forum thread where this topic has been beat to death. But, having never owned Dynafits, I'm correct in assuming that the Radical model (both the ST and the FT) are brand new this season? The only difference in the two models are the din settings; the FT having a higher din of 12... but essentially the same exact binding when it comes to some of the things that were modified from the Vertical, including the toe "power towers"?

So what it comes down to with the Radical vs Vertical is that it's basically "hard sayin, not knowin" ... but people have been pleased with the Verticals overall, and havn't found stepping in and out of the binding too much of a pain?

Thanks for the thoughts.

[gregL]

Yes and Yes.

The Radical FT also has a connecting apparatus that can be locked or not and according to Dynafit changes the performance of the ski (this has been tried before by alpine binding manufacturers). However it adds substantially to the weight and doesn't improve touring or retention.

Getting into Dynafits or other Tech bindings is a skill; there are several traditional methods to put them on. These include lining up the toe and pressing straight down, hooking one side of the toe into one socket and rolling the boot over to close the toe arms, and lining up the heel with a slight gap and then lowering the toe. All can work, and some work better in some conditions than others. The Radical bindings, because of the "Power Towers," eliminate the possibility of using the second method.

Practice on your living room carpet before you head out, and remember to lock the toe lever before you start skinning (4 clicks with ST/FT, it looks like 2 clicks is about the same with the Radical but I've only played with it in the store). It helps to draw a line with a Sharpie where the boot sockets are so you can see it from above . . .

[gregL]

The forum thread where this is most thoroughly beat to death is here:

http://www.wildsnow.com/bindings/dyn...iing-bindings/

[gregL]

PS If you are wondering why they chose not to offer an Radical ST12 or Speed Radical12 option without all the crap in between the toe and heel, you aren't the only one (the toes are all the same).

[onequeston]

copy. Thanks greg

[skifishbum]

plum ftw

[Skeeze]

Is the Radical ST10 really much stronger than Radical Speed? I'm less than <150lbs and no going to be doing any major hucking on Dynafits, so is there any real reason to pay more and take a weight penalty to get the Radical ST10?

On a similar note, I know the older TLT Speed has shorter heel pins than the ST10. Is that an issue at all on a stiffer ski (less flex underfoot), or would getting an old TLT Speed be totally fine for a light user like me?

[endure]

plum ftw

waiting for my Guides at home right now.. fedex says they should arrive before noon, which is 20 mins from now... so amped.

[gregL]

Is the Radical ST10 really much stronger than Radical Speed?

Who says it is?

I haven't seen a Speed Radical in person, but if the rumor that the pins are the same length is true, I can't think of any reason to get the ST Radical instead (unless you plan to use brakes).

[gregL]

would getting an old TLT Speed be totally fine for a light user like me?

The old TLT Speed/Classic/LowTech was totally fine for thousands of light users for years, especially if they ground off the injection molding bump under the heel pins to facilitate ski flex.

[Sinecure]

When you bend the brakes, make sure they release properly. I did this on a pair of Vertical FT's and they would sometimes stick. A little bit of filing the arm where it nests into the heel-stomp part fixed the problem without causing any other problems. I've never seen that problem bending other brakes, but it sucked chasing down my ski the first few times this happened on the slopes.

[tone capone]

I would really like to hear more opinions on the heel bump that has been added back to the radical. Lou Dawson grinds his off on the earlier models with the bump. I would like to believe there is some benefit to having them there, considering they added them back to a new product, but I would really like to know if there is any chance at all that these stupid bumps are going to mean prerelease where it wouldn't otherwise occur without them. Any personal experiences you'd care to share?

[gregL]

I would really like to hear more opinions on the heel bump that has been added back to the radical

The rationale behind the heel bump is something that's never been adequately explained (I've never seen an explanation by anyone associated with Dynafit, but I haven't tried German language texts) - Lou Dawson once speculated that it was an attempt to standardize the heel gap with an eye to future DIN or TUV certification, but that's never been verified. So basically no one knows, or they aren't talking.

I used to grind off the bumps on mine because I reasoned that a)the Comfort and ST had no bump and b)that a hard enough compression might cause the boot to push out of the toe pins in a forward direction. Years of skiing them (plus the recent advent of the Telemark Tech System, which puts quite a bit of forward pressure on unlocked Dynafit toes) leads me to believe this doesn't really happen - the heelpiece pivot post bends first (seen this happen with a few big guys).

[randosteve]

Who says it is?

I haven't seen a Speed Radical in person, but if the rumor that the pins are the same length is true, I can't think of any reason to get the ST Radical instead (unless you plan to use brakes).

to confirm...yes, the heel pins in the Speed Radical are the same length as the ST/FT.

[nickinbc]

The Radical FT also has a connecting apparatus that can be locked or not and according to Dynafit changes the performance of the ski (this has been tried before by alpine binding manufacturers). However it adds substantially to the weight and doesn't improve touring or retention.

Just been looking at my new, unmounted Radical FTs and I'm severely tempted to mount them without the plate. Anyone actually skied them and noticed changing the setting on the plate making any difference?

[gregL]

to confirm...yes, the heel pins in the Speed Radical are the same length as the ST/FT.

Thanks, Steve. Are they suggesting a 5.5mm gap for all of them?

[randosteve]

Yes...Speed Radical comes with the same spacer as the Radical ST and FT.

[kootenayskier]

As one who has broken the heel post repeatedly (stress fractures at the base after about 100 days skiiing) on Comforts and then Vertical STs, I'm interested in:

1. Has the heel post design been changed in the Radical series bindings to address this recurring issue?
2. Are there any differences in in the heel post design between the various Radical series bindings?
3. Although it seems unlikely, will the new directional rotation pin hole in the heel post create a new weak point?
4. Will the addition of the "bump" create additional leverage on the heel post that will exacerbate the issue.

Is anyone from Dynafit reading?

[dcpnz]

Yes...Speed Radical comes with the same spacer as the Radical ST and FT.

Hmmmm.
This post reminded me to go look in the box and sure enough my Radical ST did not come with the spacer thingy.

I think I still have the one from my Verticals somewhere - are they the same spacing as Radicals? 5.5 mm?

Thx

[randosteve]

As one who has broken the heel post repeatedly (stress fractures at the base after about 100 days skiiing) on Comforts and then Vertical STs, I'm interested in:

1. Has the heel post design been changed in the Radical series bindings to address this recurring issue?
2. Are there any differences in in the heel post design between the various Radical series bindings?
3. Although it seems unlikely, will the new directional rotation pin hole in the heel post create a new weak point?
4. Will the addition of the "bump" create additional leverage on the heel post that will exacerbate the issue.

Is anyone from Dynafit reading?

1. Has the heel post design been changed in the Radical series bindings to address this recurring issue?
-the radical post construction looks similar to the vertical series posts.never had any post issues myself.
2. Are there any differences in in the heel post design between the various Radical series bindings?
-they all appear to be the same.
3. Although it seems unlikely, will the new directional rotation pin hole in the heel post create a new weak point?
-it doesn't appear to. if anything, the radical post might be stronger since it has less cut-outs to accommodate the different climbing positions of a vertical.
4. Will the addition of the "bump" create additional leverage on the heel post that will exacerbate the issue.
-bump shmump...just go ski.