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  1. #101
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    Apr 2004
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    cordova,AK
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    My only question for MRA is why waste your time and finances here? As I posted earlier in one of these dream threads why not Hatcher Pass. It is ready to go. land is available permitted ready to go. Even a hydro project proposed and permitted adjoining the area. It is shovel ready. Probably could of got stimulus funds if the borough was a little smarter. Larger local population base also closer to Anchorage. I do not know the exact snowfall totals but I would imagine not very different than this area.
    there are plenty of folks in the surrounding area that could enjoy having a few rope tows nearby.
    Not knowing your definition of plenty and surrounding area I am a little hesitant to say this is way off base. However I'll say it anyway. This area is at the far reaches for Anchorage skiers. It is typically colder with a shallower snowpack. Not worth the extra drive when you are driving through better snow to get there. Anyone from the kenai peninsula who is interested in riding a chair is going to go to Alyeska. The people that ski the blue and green runs want to ride on chairs and have a cold beer and hot meal with their skiing experience. As for the skier's answer. This is Alaska skiers that appreciate the terrain here do not ski tracked slopes.
    I maybe cynical but I think it is ridiculous to say they can have a resort going in two to three years. I do not know how they can get a parking lot built for their nordic area in a year. I guess they plan to use the existing roadside parking.
    I think Wendigo said it best
    either way i will be shocked if this thing can get off the ground and sustain itself - there is a reason alaska has 93 "lost ski areas" alsap and it isn't because the people starting them up weren't stoked...
    In the past it was alot easier and cheaper to just build it.
    off your knees Louie

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    102
    There is not a chance in hell that you can walk that ridgeling to the top of Silvertip. It is totally gnarly. Skining ridgelines works in the wasatch not there. You would fall through a hole, break a cornice off, be up to your belly in sugar around the rocks and make it maybe 10% of the way before realizing what a retarted idea that was. Low on Turnagin is below 3000. The difference between 3000 and 4500 is the difference between a 70 inch base and a 170 inch base. 70 goes isothermo and sugars out top to bottom. Particularily sugaring out in the dark of winter. 12 inches of windboard on top of 4 feet of sugar to be exact, so ya I know all about skiing in winter in AK, i got better places to be...... chalk is for blackboards just like rope tows are for children.

  3. #103
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    Mar 2010
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    102
    [QUOTE=shreddacord;3394647]

    all south west and low?!?!!?

  4. #104
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    May 2008
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    GRRD
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    A comedian too!

    I would say 1200-1500 feet is considered low. But then again I think 6500 is the top of the world!

    On related subject, why do ski areas in Europe get a free pass when it comes to gnarly terrain? No one in this thread is complaining about the gnar because it is EUROPE!

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...01#post3394501

    If you don't feel comfortable with a little fluffy ridge line in AK stay on the rope tow!
    Last edited by carpathian; 10-16-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #105
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    Apr 2004
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    cordova,AK
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    Although I have not tried it myself I will not disagree with shred's analysis of the ridge route. I would say he is wrong to equate snowpack to elevation in the Turnagain area. In my opinion snowpack is dictated more by proximity to the ocean rather than elevation. No doubt snowfall increases with altitude. You are going to have a deeper snowpack at 1000' in Turnagain Pass than 3000' 25 miles down the road at manitoba. Than you could compare 1000' on the Spencer to Manitoba. I would have to agree with carpathian 6500 is about the top of the world since the highest point on the Kenai peninsula is 6600'.
    off your knees Louie

  6. #106
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    May 2008
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    The impossible! Alpine ridge travel in Alaska...

    Charlie Renfro shots here







    Yours truly

  7. #107
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    Apr 2004
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    cordova,AK
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    That looks good ridge looks way better than I thought way to get after it.
    off your knees Louie

  8. #108
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    Oct 2003
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    girdweed
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    Shred, have you toured the turnagain and summit areas extensively or at all?

  9. #109
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    Jun 2010
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    169
    Some great discussion here, thanks for keeping it PG 13.

    To answer BFD question, it's our understanding that Hatcher Pass does not get nearly as reliable a snowfall as Manitoba Mountain region.

    Here's a good shot at the top of Surface Lift 3 and immediate southern slopes, taken last season, on the shortest day of the year.


  10. #110
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    May 2009
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    june
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    126
    Well, isn't rescue insurance very affordable in Europe, and aren't the rescuers highly skilled, highly compensated professionals, not volunteers or ski patrol?? It seems that a lot of the heroes of Chamonix have been plucked up by a helicopter at least once.

    It seems a little silly that we're arguing on the internet about some hypothetical ski area that may or may not be built. Good luck; it does look pretty fun. Build it for the locals, not TGR or Powder.
    I'll be the hyena, you'll see.

  11. #111
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    girdweed
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    A few more things, there is a parking area already there with the gravel pit. There would definitely be excellent beer and grub (way better than the sitz, guaranteed) no promises on the mahogany and marble sushi bar though. The point is that the priorities lean toward the skiing, the rest is fluff, but required, and easily and gratefully supplied by some desperate hippy trying to make a living in the middle of BFE.

  12. #112
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    Apr 2004
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    cordova,AK
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    I could not readily find average snowfall totals for the two areas Hatcher and Manitoba. I did find lazy Mountain and Moose pass and they are almost the same.
    http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?ak5464
    I guess I am one of the few people here who is less likely to go somewhere if there is a ski area.
    Not being someone who shits where they eat I have no interest in developing a ski area.
    However if I were I would recognize the time and money invested in this project already and would imagine it would have a better chance of success than what is being proposed here.
    http://www.dowlhkm.com/projects/hatcherpass/
    off your knees Louie

  13. #113
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    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
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    718
    If AK could wrap its head around the idea; "You fuck up, your problem". Even hero's get picked up in Yurp but if the rescue puts "Berrettung" in acute danger they will not come and get your ass. Dudes die left right and center. Its sad but their families put them in the ground and then move on.

    Get that mentality and this resort would not be a problem. I am not sure if this is an accurate statement but the Alps are the Alps because the people have been here since they decided sliding and climbing in the mountains is fun. But its all at your own risk. Shit even the people that got nabbed in the Kitzsteinhorn train/tunnel fire all got reasonable settlements. Though tragic no American resort would have survived an accident and the following lawsuits. The Americans that lost their lives in that accident even tried to have their settlements down under American law because they knew they would get jack shit under Austrian/Swiss/French/Italian law.

    Looking at that Alaska's 93 lost ski areas reminded me of what NZ has now. AK was on the right path but somehow it all kinda went awry. Mountains everywhere, shit tons a snow, a long season, albeit low light from December till February. Could be putting rope tows up into prefect touring areas.

    Soooo many laws, restrictions. I want to know who it hurts to take like 300 hectares away from the wilderness in the middle of winter and put in some of the most non-invasive infrastructure there is. But having people rip around on snowmobiles is chill??

    In Alaska!! Its HUGE...

    But infrastructure like this is cool right??



    Hate that it is a CNN photo but cant help it.

  14. #114
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    Oct 2003
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    girdweed
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    BFD, I would love to see development in hatcher as I hold some cards there. From my understanding, the sole reason for the lifts is for base area real estate development and infrastructure, same old story. A few years ago (before the ecoquake) the matching $$$ available from the burrough were almost utilized by a major developer until the impact review of their plan (more frikkin condos and strip malls) on the little su drainage required less construction. With no funds to be made off of the BS they quickly pulled out, and no one has been serious since.

    There was a long thread and discussion on t-tips when it was happening.

  15. #115
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion View Post
    One question. Do all the people that want the things a resort type of ski area offers not qualify as skiers?

    Interesting discussion as far as it goes but claiming to speak for the "SKIERS' comes off a little strange.
    if their reason for going is the amenities, then i think not. there's nothing wrong with a resort that caters to those who want the frills that go beyond skiing. likewise, there's nothing wrong with an area that caters to those that don't care about that. sure it's nice to be able to go in a nice lodge and sit by a fire to warm up. you know where else fires are nice? outside. i probably skied 90 days at the wood last year and ate at their establishments maybe 6 times all of which were when i was with the kids and most of which were at the outside area by chair 4. same thing goes for visits to your neck of the woods and utah. sure we patronize business when the lifts aren't turning, but when they are, that's why we're there.

    i'm finding numerous tr's online for silvertip and surrounding areas, some of which even venture up the inaccessible ridge...

    can you imagine if there was bc access from resorts to an area with glaciers???
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  16. #116
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    Dec 2005
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    Closed Area
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    interesting to note the different ways places that offer skiing describe themselves...Mountain Resort vs Ski and Summer Resort vs Ski Area, etc.

  17. #117
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    Dec 2004
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    8,492
    if their reason for going is the amenities, then i think not. there's nothing wrong with a resort that caters to those who want the frills that go beyond skiing.
    Nope, nothing wrong at all.

    i probably skied 90 days at the wood last year and ate at their establishments maybe 6 times all of which were when i was with the kids and most of which were at the outside area by chair 4. same thing goes for visits to your neck of the woods and Utah. sure we patronize business when the lifts aren't turning, but when they are, that's why we're there.
    My point is, a project like Manitoba is already pretty fringe and will attract a very small paying group. If the operation is kept real simple it has a chance to break even. Maybe.

    If Manitoba needs to perform more than occasional avalanche hazard reduction that will be very difficult. As it stands having a very tame in-bounds with an open gate policy is probably the only feasible route.

    Most areas that feature controlled avalanche terrain depend on the % who don't use that terrain to help subsidize it for those who do.

    From my point of view as a ski area employee, anyone who rides our lifts is a skier.

    Everyone who shows up, buys a ticket and helps to power my company is valuable, whatever their reasons for being there.

    Thanks

  18. #118
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    14,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion View Post


    My point is, a project like Manitoba is already pretty fringe and will attract a very small paying group. If the operation is kept real simple it has a chance to break even. Maybe.
    manitoba mtn , shames (which is a go in spite of naysayers), the Hankin project, your local ski no one has ever heard of are all local initiatives supported BY locals in spite of the pages of dreck that get posted here by people who will never make it there ...the WWW just makes it easier

    edit: how many of the people adding their opinion are actualy planning to make it there ??
    Last edited by XXX-er; 10-17-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  19. #119
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    May 2008
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    GRRD
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    The Hankin Project is pretty cool. Government subsidized backcountry ski hill building to get unemployed forest workers back on the saw. Basically there is this giant mountain that has forest running up the flanks into the alpine. The crews cut about 6-7 ski runs through the trees allowing us to get the goods.

    The only projected return on investment is a) keeping people working and b) providing diversification in recreational infrastructure to hopefully increase tourism

    (old TR)
    It was pretty quiet today out at Hankin. It was my first day to the new area. Bill worked on cutting trails in the trees and knew his way around. Good thing because we covered a lot of k's and I surely would not have known how to get where we did.

    The area seems to be a snow belt. Combo of volume from coast side but cooled more then Shames.

    Bill leading the way


    Our destination? The newly accessible alpine flanks of Hankin Mountain.


    All the good terrain is buried deep in northern aspects. The light was low through out the day


    Evelyn Pk and Hudson Bay in far back right


    We decided on the first line that looked like fun. Started bootpacking up face.


    Chest deep/steep snow in jeans


    It was very difficult going. Serious chest deep along the rocks at edge of main avy chute. We were trying to stay out of middle of chute. Eventually made it to narrow section and was able to boot easy steps in firm snow.

    I lead up to crus and had trouble as i wallowed over shallow rocks/hip deep hoar. Greg and Bill tucked under 'safe' spot as I negotiated into next section. Real steep scrambling on rocks now. Like the snow is 6 inches from my face as I skid on rock for scant purchase. I finally gained a view of the next section and blood ran cold. Our steep little section was bottom of much wider (10x) mini bowl; within chute. Sure hangfire as I was already sniffing danger.



    I conceded that we should turn around. Now if I triggered anything it would most likely propagate straight up slope, rendering Greg and Bill 'safe' spot useless.

    Greg was nervous having just got back out west from three weeks of holiday in Ontario. He scraped and slid a ways down to a spot to get his board on. I could not move as any touching the snow would shower directly down on both of them. I perched on the nub of rock for what seemed like eternity as Bill finally skied out from under me.

    I could not down climb what i came up so had to balance on rock to put skis on. I knew I would have to just jump of rock into straightline away from hangfire...

    Anyway, we made it down and started hiking up our next run. We laughed when we say that we basically rolled into the unknown terrain and attempted to boot up the steepest meanest of the runs. But did not know it until higher vantage.



    Our next goal was to get up the big happy gulley.



    Bill 1000 feet into our 4000 to the truck



    The last 2000 feet is this.


    Overall I give the area a solid A for access and potential for fun. Bill thinks we saw about a third of the terrain. In this last shot we were in the lookers right main bowl.

  20. #120
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    "The only projected return on investment is a) keeping people working and b) providing diversification in recreational infrastructure to hopefully increase tourism"

    I think the govy stimulus package also kept "The Ski Bums " together & skiing which was the unofficial house band at the ski hill barand I am pretty sure they were just playing for beer

    We had a Hankin work bee and got out 46 people, saws ,helicopter,1st aid , barbaque ... quite a production there is an "adopt a run" program which is working pretty good

    I dunno if you ever made it over to the Hankin LOOKOUT around the lookers right ridge but 2 carpenters and me as the painter did an intensive 5 day gig buffing the place out,instaling a wood stove

    there is a "gate" on the road with a built-in beacon checker,after an environmental review Brian is talking about another cabin and more runs on lookers left

    the stuff below tree line is pretty mellow and nice for everyone who wants to try BC skiing, but you can go high as pointed out, BTW all that stuff pulled out last season in a BIG event which hit one of the area trails which was not expected

    Hankin happenings, a new ski store in town, sillyness at the hill , shames is a go ... come north people
    Last edited by XXX-er; 10-17-2011 at 02:58 PM.

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    102
    That ridgeline is retarted and if it was me I would way rather take my chances booting straight the fuck up the snow........ But then again, what the fuck do I know? I think North and east at elevation is better then south and low so I am obviously a tool. on another tact...... Why a ski resort that has a 30 day season and a market of none. Why in the hell would I fly there from here instead of go to Europe for the same price.. There are trams, culture, and chicks in Europe. There is windfuck, flat light, mud, and men in GayK?

    There would be a market for meth in Anchorage, Maybe get a trailor and cook some cuz there are a lot more methheads then skiers. MCA, meth cookers alliance, "we are high as hell and think we should ski into a mega terrain trap" could be your team qoute!

  22. #122
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    Oct 2003
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    girdweed
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    ^^^ I bet you make a great BC partner. PM me if you come up I've got a line on some killer shit. Hike 40,000 vert in 2 days nonstop kinda shit. No culture or chicks, what else you gonna do?

  23. #123
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    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by shreddacord View Post
    Why a ski resort that has a 30 day season and a market of none. Why in the hell would I fly there from here instead of go to Europe for the same price..
    because europe wouldn't let you in?
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  24. #124
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    Jan 2008
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    the gach
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    Yea shed you're right. You know what else is stupid? Alyeska base elevation is like 100 feet lots of south facing terrain. They don't get any snow there either. And the season is only like 30 days. Clearly you know more than all the AK mags that actually know the area.

  25. #125
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    Nov 2007
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    London Mountain
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    870
    I'm relieved that the intelligent conversation is over and we're back to the tried and true shit slinging

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