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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluffy View Post
    im assuming it was safer in the morning and got weaker as the sun effected it. there are many times i would ski a line at 7 am but not at noon.

    skiing any big line right now with our pack is a risk and venturing onto big faces at the moment is a bad call no matter who or what or when you are.

    we all have hindsight on this slide, so lets stop bickering and divulge some useful knowledge from this incident and hopefully move on as a safer community.
    Agree, and you are spot on. The paper stated it took out the tracks of 8 runs, 4 from the night before, and 4 from earlier that day, likely in the morning. Good insight on the changing conditions with the sun.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  2. #502
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    May 2006
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    i think it had more to do with hitting the sweet spot...than the temps. small, deliberate trigger in the pocket, caused the rest to go...BIG!
    Teton AT
    Live to Ski!

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by randosteve View Post
    i think it had more to do with hitting the sweet spot...than the temps. small, deliberate trigger in the pocket, caused the rest to go...BIG!
    i see what your saying too!

    aside from the controversy, man isn't this what makes SNOW so fucking cool too. its wild and living, like a snow pack is a living thing that is effected and reacts to many different things... whose health is determined by what it eats (the weather) and how it stays in shape (was it windy, or sunny ect...) and so much more.

    sorry for the sidetrack i just really love snow

    RESPECT

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by randosteve View Post
    i think it had more to do with hitting the sweet spot...than the temps. small, deliberate trigger in the pocket, caused the rest to go...BIG!
    trying to agree...In my armchair qb opinion, such a calculated skicut would have quite likely triggered earlier in the morning as well, but someone simply skiing it would have had less risk in the morning than in the afternoon post-warming.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  5. #505
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    A Chamonix of the Mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluffy View Post
    i see what your saying too!

    aside from the controversy, man isn't this what makes SNOW so fucking cool too. its wild and living, like a snow pack is a living thing that is effected and reacts to many different things... whose health is determined by what it eats (the weather) and how it stays in shape (was it windy, or sunny ect...) and so much more.

    sorry for the sidetrack i just really love snow

    RESPECT
    Fucking hippie. Snow is like vagina, it must be tamed and destroyed before being discarded in favor of new, untracked snow!
    "Buy the Fucking Plane Tickets!"
    -- Jack Tackle

  6. #506
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    memory card wipe...some Crags opening and some cody from last year. its 90% shitty pov! =)


  7. #507
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluffy View Post
    the pass is the new rock springs... prolly see people whipping out trailmaps soon on top of glory or the claw =/
    Already seen this. Just two days ago there was a guy on top of glory with the JH Ski Atlas asking for references and advise. The time I saw it before was years ago out at the claw... I suggested they not follow me and go back to the lot.
    Prolly tgr mags or at least lurkers.
    mmmm, snow

  8. #508
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    Jan 2009
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    Dude's a fucking retard end of story. U want to be avy control guy? go do it somewhere you are not risking wiping out a bunch of people. Like anywhere other then the pass or within two drainages of the village. Yeah, johny bad ass guide guy, maybe go some fucking where that requires more then a 5 minute aproach to be a fuicking avy hero. Hey Rando steve, 1000 hits on taylor? My ass, that is 50 a year for 20 years and nobody skied that thing 15 years ago. Just like everything else about JH, Everyone there claims a 12 inch cock when in reality it's 4 inches and they can't even get it up unless their daddy comes to do it for em kinda like daddy does the bill paying for their perma vaca in the hole. Sweet spot, warming hard/soft slab, who cares? You gotta be missing a chromosone to think it wise to ski such a large slide path in these conditions. I bet all those dumb fucks whose tracks got wiped are just like the tool who set the thing off, incapable of being patient enough to ever give a women a good time. Not that that matters since they probably get their jolly's sticking ice axes in each others rectums in the mens room at the knotty.

  9. #509
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    . I bet all those dumb fucks whose tracks got wiped are just like the tool who set the thing off, incapable of being patient enough to ever give a women a good time. Not that that matters since they probably get their jolly's sticking ice axes in each others rectums in the mens room at the knotty.
    Ouch,^^^john c. with the signature nasty low blow!


    Fucking hippie. Snow is like vagina, it must be tamed and destroyed before being discarded in favor of new, untracked snow!
    Classic!

    Fine entertainment, folks, thanks for the bedtime chuckle.

    Stay safe Jackson brethren, and may your tips always rise to the surface!
    "The skis just popped me up out of the snow and I went screaming down the hill on a high better than any heroin junkie." She Ra

  10. #510
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    I just got back from Jackson. I had a great week, fun to see old friends and ski some powder. The snowpack pretty much sucks, I was up on Glory when the slide happened. I don't want to judge and I have done plenty of stupid things but it does seem a little selfish to be ski cutting something with a chance of killing people below. I spent the winter of 2006 in Telluride and I got slid hard through the Poison Spider Chutes. When the slide lost it's energy I was buried up to my neck and I had lost a ski. There were two local high school kids smoking pot right next to it and all I could think about was what if I had killed someone? All for just thinking about myself and trying to boost my ego. Pretty weak sauce I concluded.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by john c View Post
    Not that that matters since they probably get their jolly's sticking ice axes in each others rectums in the mens room at the Stagecoach.
    Fixed it for you. C'mon, man. There's like 20 self-entitled spoiled brats on the east side for each one on the westslope. This side just doesn't have a large enough audience to appreciate their radness. Nobody over here gives two shits if you ski. We're all lost in our own private Idaho and just tryin to pay the bills.

  12. #512
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    Oct 2010
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    did you guys get your forecasted 8 to 12 last night?

  13. #513
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    Would I be home if it had? It's late, took longer than forecast to flatten the ridge but it started snowing about 10 minutes ago. Probly go get some this afternoon. Radar looks good and mountain temps are good. NOAA gives a 5-11" spread @ 9000ft.

  14. #514
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    Jan 2006
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    The Village reported 4" this morning. The skiing has been fantastic.

    Some stoke to get things back on track.

    Liberty, age 10, ripping it up @ JHMR under the Marmot Lift. The K2 Bad Apple has been excellent for her.


    ...taken with an iPhone
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    Ski Shop - Basement of the Hostel



    Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.

    Mark Twain

  15. #515
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    Lots of emotional comments over on your site RS on the Taylor incident. A few things that I noticed were that all of the pro-ski cut group were saying that the face was hanging up there and would have gone at any point on its own. BTNF didn't report any natural activity on Tuesday, so I doubt if that snow would have slid without some encouragement. Snow changes with the weather and can be safe one hour and not the next, or vice versa.

    Seeing as the guy who started this wanted to remain anonymous, I doubt that he feels good about this decision now and in hindsight would have done something different. Just goes to show that no matter how much time and experience you have in the mountains, you are never infailable.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by neckdeep View Post
    Fixed it for you. C'mon, man. There's like 20 self-entitled spoiled brats on the east side for each one on the westslope. This side just doesn't have a large enough audience to appreciate their radness. Nobody over here gives two shits if you ski. We're all lost in our own private Idaho and just tryin to pay the bills.
    Sorry, my bad. The east side is the dumping ground for everyone that couldn't hack it in their daddy's law firms back in Boston/NY. This is the root cause of their wicked insecurity, they are their families black sheep and try to make up for this permanent insecurity by being the badest mofo around. The next level is the guide, the wanna be pro skier, and the blogger. Constantly needing the ego stroke of a client needing their help, a published photo, or publicity for their latest stunt. Guess what? Nobody cares but the other 5000 trust funders living in your little bubble. Yup, you have a resposibility to not kill someone else in the process..... Most of us are trying to have fun, not be Luke Skywalker and blow up the fucking death star, save the galaxy, and be the coolest Jedi at the next movie premier.

  17. #517
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    I cover up my Corn Flakes when john c comes around!
    "Buy the Fucking Plane Tickets!"
    -- Jack Tackle

  18. #518
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    Some wits use a rapier, John C just rolls two verbal grenades in the door.....but he has a point about having a responsibility not to kill someone else and it is a point worth elaborating. Its not just a moral responsibilty, its backed up by law. Just so you pro-ski cut folks know, if you ski cut an avy on someone and kill them YOU and not the conditions are the proximate cause of the death. That the slope was just hanging there is not an excuse; the person who INTENTIONALLY releases the slide is the proximate cause. The fact that you knew condtions were sketchy just makes you all the more legally culpable. Good luck with your argument that people downslope are somehow guilty of contributory negligence for being in the way of your slide. You will be annihilated in court. A good plaintiff's attorney or prosecutor will make you look like a selfish, callous shitstain who values his fun over other peoples lives. You will be totally destroyed on a direct or cross examination. That much I can promise. Depending upon the facts, you may:

    1. be found guilty in a civil court wrongful death suit and spend the rest of your life turning your earnings over to the victim's family.

    2. be found guilty of negligent homicide, a felony.

    3. be found guilty of reckless homicide, a very serious felony with plenty of prison time.

    I just mention what will happen to you because you may not care what happens to anybody else. If any reader has passed the federal multistate bar exam and has a different legal opnion, I'd like to hear it. PM me. If you took an avy course and have strong feelings on the subect but have no legal training, your opinion is of very limited value to me (or anyone else, really) because we are talking about the law of negligence/recklessness, causation and legal responsibility, not your subjective feelings.

    A standard textbook example of reckless homicide would be intentionally tossing a brick off a high building into the street without looking and fatally striking a pedestrian. Doesn't really matter if you knew anyone was in the street, just that there was a high degree of risk known to you but you chose to disregard it. No finding of mens rea (guilty mind) is required to convict. Any one care care to try and distinguish this from intentionally tossing an avy down a mountainside into a known traverse zone where someone died in a similarly large avy just 6 years ago.
    Last edited by neckdeep; 01-26-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  19. #519
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    Sep 2004
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    Ghee this Am was soft and smoothish, but not yet buttery. Vis is better than not good and maybe 5 peeps total skiing the football field. Snow was not falling heavy yet. Winds pretty moderate Late PM today should have it totally buffed out.
    Have fun

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by john c View Post
    Sorry, my bad. The east side is the dumping ground for everyone that couldn't hack it in their daddy's law firms back in Boston/NY. This is the root cause of their wicked insecurity, they are their families black sheep and try to make up for this permanent insecurity by being the badest mofo around. The next level is the guide, the wanna be pro skier, and the blogger. Constantly needing the ego stroke of a client needing their help, a published photo, or publicity for their latest stunt. Guess what? Nobody cares but the other 5000 trust funders living in your little bubble. Yup, you have a resposibility to not kill someone else in the process..... Most of us are trying to have fun, not be Luke Skywalker and blow up the fucking death star, save the galaxy, and be the coolest Jedi at the next movie premier.
    Harsh but so damn funny.

  21. #521
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    May 2006
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    Eagle County
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    john c is sooooo angry.....have some suds and chil bro
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

  22. #522
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    Oct 2005
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    Queen City, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by john c View Post
    ..... Most of us are trying to have fun, not be Luke Skywalker and blow up the fucking death star, save the galaxy, and be the coolest Jedi at the next movie premier.
    New sig line

  23. #523
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    Oct 2007
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    JH/AK/Los Andes
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    So, I didnt want to really speak up much on the Taylor slide because (as funny as it can get on here) I hate the internet shitslinging associated with these kind of events. I have been urged by some members of the community to share my account and views on the whole event and aftermath. Ill try and keep emotions out of this but big events like this evoke emotion so Ill apologize in advance for any emotionally charged remarks.

    For the most part, the reports of the accident have been spot on so I wont elongate them to much more. However there are a couple details I think are important that have been left out and/or overlooked.

    There were 2 groups skiing Taylor on the 24th. Greg Collins' group and another.

    Within 10 (maybe 15) minutes Greg Collins and his group had provided some info to Jay Pistono and left. The other group stuck around until after TCSAR had searched the debris with their dangling heli beacon.

    The debis pile is massive. 30+ft deep and roughly 500yds long. If you have some time soon (Im not sure how much this snow has already covered it up) go look at it like panchosdad did.

    Randosteves photos are really my photos. I asked Steve to leave my name off them since I did not want to be associated with the shitstorm I figured they would brew up, but since it looks like Im about to jump into it, I figure I should disclose all of my actions surrounding the event.

    Now for my opinions on the slide, the actions of those involved, and the reactions Ive read and heard.

    First off, I do not blame Greg Collins for making a mistake. He is human despite that way some people in this town hold him up and is capable of making mistakes just like anybody else. Ask anybody who has been skiing in the BC long enough and they will tell you, shit happens no matter how good you are. However, this is a mistake that Greg should not have had the chance to make.

    First and formost the South Face of Taylor was an EXTREMELY poor terrain choice. This is the biggest mistake Greg and his group made that day. I think Gregs group became complacient of Taylor. Rationally, and from the view of someone not as familar with Taylor, we had just recieved a large new load of snow on a weak basel snowpack, the danger rating was considerable, temps were rising, and the sun was out for the first time in a couple days. Basic avy 1 thinking says no.

    Second, I am somewhat doubtful of Gregs claim that he intentionally started the slide. It is hard to make out a ski cut in the tracks if there is one. The other group had reported Greg jumping around on the slope earlier in the day but didnt know if he had been jumping around on his second. Again, any level one or level two will teach that using test skiing or ski cutting on a hard slab is useless expecially when the majority of the slab is very thick

    The South Face of Taylor (exp in this snowpack) is no place for test skiing or ski cutting even without the Coal Creek exit track below. Ill quote the avalanche handbook about suitable slopes for test skiing and ski cuts.

    "In general, test skiing is limited to short slopes where no serious consequences would result if an avalanche of fall by the skier takes place. It is applied principally for testing the stability of the most recently deposited snow. Test skiing is normally avoided when a weekness is suspected deep in the snowpack or when the snow at the surface is hard. Under these snow conditions, either the skier would not be able to add enough stress to initiate failure in deep, weak layers or the resulting avalanche could be dangerously large."

    The part about this event that has put me off the most has been the choice to ski above skiers exiting Coal Creek and the support Greg has recieved for this choice in its aftermath. Skiing above someone in your group is a major no-no and is taught in every avalanche class Ive ever taken so why would skier above an extremly heavily traveled exit be any different? Sure, people should not linger below Taylors slide paths but to have to worry about " a local avalnche guru doing "control" work" in the middle of a sunny afternoon is ludacris. Do drivers have to worry about WYDOT doing control work when the road is open? No, because that would be insainly dangerous to the drivers on the road. Same thing here.

    The last thing Id like to comment on is how Greg Collins has handled himself since. Of course Greg can handle this however he pleases (this is America after all) but I have found his actions childish, cowardly, selfish, and irresponsible. After the slide Greg and his group left before TCSAR had even cleared the debris of a beacon signal, let alone let the dog sniff around ( for those unaware, uninformed peope ski glory without beacons sometime). God forbid that someone picked up a signal or the dog had an alert. TCSAR and the people that showed up to help with the rescue would have been probing and digging while Greg was home.

    The last thing is Gregs attempt to remain anynomous in the aftermath. That, plain and simple, is the actions of a child trying to hide from punishment or in this case Greg trying to avoid scrutiny from the community. This is not the way somebody who peope pay to take them into the mountains should act following a mistake of this magnetude in the mountains imo.

    Again, all ^^^ that is my opinion and if you would like to discuss it more Id be happy to meet in person since I hate anynomous internet bullshit.

    Aaron Diamond
    "The idea wasnt for me, that I would be the only one that would ever do this. My idea was that everybody should be doing this. At the time nobody was, but this was something thats too much fun to pass up." -Briggs
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Wear your climbing harness. Attach a big anodized locker to your belay loop so its in prime position to hit your nuts. Double russian Ti icescrews on your side loops positioned for maximal anal rape when you sit down. Then everyone will know your radness
    More stoke, less shit.

  24. #524
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    Jan 2009
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    157
    Great conditions today.. free re-fills all day. Found some very quiet spots that no one was skiing and had powder all day. The 191 Fats were great too ! Wish I could post the footage... but cant get the go pro footage edited from my work laptop.

  25. #525
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    Apr 2011
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    Missoula, MT
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    90
    Well-said, Aaron. From all that I've read about this, I totally agree with you.

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