Who rows? (Concept2)

[Wes Mantooth]

I'm in SW NH. Rowing in brattleboro in warmer weather.

2:04/500 for 12k? Sound like you were hardly breaking a sweat. Holy smokes.

Where in Brattleboro do you row? I take a single out on the west river sometimes and row into the connecticut. There's a dock and a tiny little shitty club over by the marina restaurant a few miles north of town on putney road

[DeeAre]

Ahh the 10k straight....a great workout.

Sorta hurt my hip a few weeks ago and the erg doesn't bother it so...oh joy...i'm back on the pain train. Did a 12k yesterday holding my HR below 140 and SR in the 20-21 range and clocked a 2:04/500 with the screen down. I was happy with that.

Today I decided to see "where I was" compared to where I used to be. So I fired up one of my favorite workouts - 2x5k SR 24-26, HR low 150s and went at it.....erging sucks.

Damn.

I tend to do a bunch of short-ish burst stuff... 2 min intervals/ 500 m intervals... often with 25-50 pushups during recovery or even every other recovery period. SR around 28-30 usually for this. HR shit is one of final frontiers of fitness for me.
I was slow on the uptake in wattage, but have been paying coinsistent attention since and it's made my times faster. Starting to get a feel for SR.. is there some kinda formula or rule of thumb based on distance, or am I wise to just look at wattage and correlate with the SR?

Also, got onto a C2 Dynamic yesterday. Different feel mechanically, but I liked it.

[phishstx]

Usually do a 5000 at the beginning or end of a workout at the gym, ordinarily around a 2:05 split. I've found that hopping on the erg while sore from doing weights keeps me more conscious of my mechanics. Been meaning to get into some actual erg workouts though, some good ideas in this thread.

[lionelhutz]

Since I hate myself I think one day this week I'm going to do
4x 2k. Stroke ratings 24, 26, 28, open. See what sorta misery I can drum up.

[jibij]

Found a Model C on CL for a great price. I'm gonna be spending a lot more time rowing.

[iceman]

5K @ 2:15/ @ 20 yesterday. Far from amazing but I'm making progress.

[lionelhutz]

Since I hate myself I think one day this week I'm going to do
4x 2k. Stroke ratings 24, 26, 28, open. See what sorta misery I can drum up.

I drummed up a lot of suck. That is all.

feeling like I'm getting the cruise power back 12k @2:01.4/500 this am felt good. Now just need that high end power to start coming back.

tip 'o the day. keep your heels down at the catch, don't over reach and drive through the heels on the foot stretches. When you row and your heels are WAY up with a strong bend in your foot you lose a lot of drive. Think about all the time that you lose just getting your heels down to the foot stretchers. Focus on keeping that gap as small as possible.

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Between seeing rowers on The Biggest Loser this week, and this thread, I decided to try out the C2 at the local gym. Interesting. I have NEVER been on the water, growing up in CO, and don't really have any desire, but was curious as to how you all are reporting times. 12k doing 2 minutes/500m, right? Anyhow, I think I will jump into it and see. I have REALLY strong legs, but struggled yesterday to feel like I was able to engage them to generate any actual power. I know that I have no technique, but I will start to work on the "tip 'o the day". Thanks for the info.

[lionelhutz]

Standard measure in rowing isn 500m splits and either distance or the # of K.
So a workout written as 2x 5k @ 2:00/500m would be two 5000 meter pieces held at 2:00 minutes per 500m.

[iceman]

Gettin' a little faster...intervals yesterday and did a 1:46 on setting 3 at 20/min.

Almost had a stroke afterwards (little rowing joke there, "stroke", heh), but I was pretty happy with my strength.

[DeeAre]

BUMP for un-fatness.

Lots of short intervals lately: 8 x 1 min / 30 sec recovery

Always commit to at least 8 rounds at 2:00/500m pace... if I drop below on a round I get bonus rounds. Always after heavy iron work, always playing with damper settings.
I love you C2. I soooo should have been an ivy leaguer rower winklevoss type.

[Oarhead]

tip 'o the day. keep your heels down at the catch, don't over reach and drive through the heels on the foot stretches. When you row and your heels are WAY up with a strong bend in your foot you lose a lot of drive. Think about all the time that you lose just getting your heels down to the foot stretchers. Focus on keeping that gap as small as possible.

I'm actually going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Keeping your heels down really limits the length of your stroke at the handle by a significant margin (1-2 inches). It doesn't sound like a lot but it will affect your splits by about 2 seconds/500m in the long haul. Rolling up onto the balls of your foot does not limit your catch or drive power or delay any other aspect of the stroke. Pushing through the balls of your feet is just as powerful as the flat foot in rowing. During the drive phase you can roll your feet back down onto the stretchers and finish the drive through your heels to ensure full leg extension as you pointed out. You will never see an international level crew rowing with feet flat at the catch. Having said all of that, rolling past the balls of your feet is bad and poor achilles tendon flexibility is bad. The heel only needs to come up enough to allow you to roll onto the balls of your feet. To address a topic that may come up: over-reach at the catch (and thus back injury) can happen with your heels down or up, so it is also not a major consideration IMO. It is the result of reaching too far from the waist, not a product of heel lift.

Keep up the good work folks. Nice to see so many others building a strong hatred of that thing yet returning to it week after week, just like me. I hate it but I know it makes me fitter.

[lionelhutz]

I'm actually going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Keeping your heels down really limits the length of your stroke at the handle by a significant margin (1-2 inches). It doesn't sound like a lot but it will affect your splits by about 2 seconds/500m in the long haul. Rolling up onto the balls of your foot does not limit your catch or drive power or delay any other aspect of the stroke. Pushing through the balls of your feet is just as powerful as the flat foot in rowing. During the drive phase you can roll your feet back down onto the stretchers and finish the drive through your heels to ensure full leg extension as you pointed out. You will never see an international level crew rowing with feet flat at the catch. Having said all of that, rolling past the balls of your feet is bad and poor achilles tendon flexibility is bad. The heel only needs to come up enough to allow you to roll onto the balls of your feet. To address a topic that may come up: over-reach at the catch (and thus back injury) can happen with your heels down or up, so it is also not a major consideration IMO. It is the result of reaching too far from the waist, not a product of heel lift.

Keep up the good work folks. Nice to see so many others building a strong hatred of that thing yet returning to it week after week, just like me. I hate it but I know it makes me fitter.

We actually agree. By "keep the heels down" I mean focus on not letting them get past that natural 1 to 1.5 inch gap that develops. You'll see beginner rowers with that heel WAY up- like 3-4 inches up because of poor flexability and a lack of understanding. Your power does come from pushing those legs down and rolling onto that flat foot as you explode with the legs. An international crew will quickly close that gap as part of the natural drive sequence. Again beginners don't always get this. I wanted to stress the importance of driving though that foot as you go through the drive.
As for losing time, missing leg drive as you close your heel gap (if it's big) results in about a 4-6 seats over a 2k.

I'll note that there are some older crews who learned a much shorter, compact and powerful stroke and have quite a bit of hardware to show for it including olympic medals.

[iceman]

I've often heard that letting your shins get past perpendicular results in a dramatic loss of leg drive, so maybe it's not really the heel per se that's the issue, rather the position of the leg at the catch.

Or maybe not.

[lionelhutz]

yea...you don't want the shins past perpendicular. That puts a TON of strain on your knees.

[DeeAre]

^so it depends on the degree of dorsial flexibility in the rower? Just like squatting mechanics, which makes sense. Stiff ankles means knees compensate etc.

[bad dancer]

Gettin' a little faster...intervals yesterday and did a 1:46 on setting 3 at 20/min.

Almost had a stroke afterwards (little rowing joke there, "stroke", heh), but I was pretty happy with my strength.

I assume that is a 1:46 split for 20 min ?

Solid !!

[lionelhutz]

I think iceman means he hit a 1:46 for a 500m split at 20 strokes per min.

Now if I'm wrong and Iceman just rowed a 20 minute piece at 1:46/500 then damn. I need to get back into my jeans on that erg.

[iceman]

No, no, I kept it up for 20 hours, duh.

[lionelhutz]

No, no, I kept it up for 20 hours, duh.

This is why you had the strength of soul to kill that poor fawn.

[bad dancer]

So when you are talking about keeping your feet down. Now I get it.
I have always lifted my heels too much I think. If I'm pulling hard and fast, the seat usually smacks my heels a bit if I get lazy. By pulling the heels up, this has always eliminated that. I will try and keep them down more and see what happens. Makes sense now to get the power from the "whole" foot rather than the toes.

Thanks

[Philip Oliver Wholz]

any one have experience with the indoor rower that uses water as resistance?

[irul&ublo]

No, no, I kept it up for 20 hours, duh.

Sting!!!!

[jibij]

Shaq on his custom (longer rail) C2 Model E.

http://www.flipshare.com/api/ViewFbR...7-3f5ffe46d321

[Wes Mantooth]

So when you are talking about keeping your feet down. Now I get it.
I have always lifted my heels too much I think. If I'm pulling hard and fast, the seat usually smacks my heels a bit if I get lazy. By pulling the heels up, this has always eliminated that. I will try and keep them down more and see what happens. Makes sense now to get the power from the "whole" foot rather than the toes.

Thanks

Your seat shouldn't be hitting your heels since that undoubtedly means your shins are coming way way past vertical, but if you need to lift your heels up in order to get your shins vertical at full compression then so be it. You don't want to shorten the most powerful part of the stroke (leg drive) by not coming as far up the slide because you're trying to keep your heels down. As long as you get them down quickly and push evenly from all parts of your foot you're set and you'll have a plenty powerful stroke. The only important thing to remember foot-wise is to maintain pressure on the bottoms of your feet even at the release of the stroke. Unweighting the feet = unnecessary disconnection from the handle

Also, to add, the only reason I can see your seat hitting your heels is if you are losing body angle as you come up the slide and pushing the seat forward while pulling your shoulders back. you want to avoid that since it means you catch the water with your back and not your legs and have a much less powerful stroke