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  1. #826
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    This is all hearsay. Jack missed the balloon payment. The Israeli investors called in the loan and got out of the chair next to Jack, walked around the table and sat down next to Vail.
    We're not happy 'til you're not happy.

  2. #827
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    sounds speculative, at best. If there is ANY truth to this, it will be in wednesday's Park Record, and the SLT.
    I'm interested. I was told that in addition to mtn. ops., Vail just took over management of the Sundial, and other slope-side lodging.
    “How does it feel to be the greatest guitarist in the world? I don’t know, go ask Rory Gallagher”. — Jimi Hendrix

  3. #828
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    Mar 2012
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    Park City
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    Yes, the above scenario sounds highly speculative. "Rumor" and "hearsay"? It must be TGR!

    That being said, the Vail numbers seem incredibly bizarre. The ski side of Canyons clears 3-5 million per year, which is peanuts. And Vail just committed to leasing it for 25 million per year?

    Vail has stated that it's clear intention is to run PCMR once the lawsuit is over. In fact, Vail has taken over responsibility for the suit, so they can operate PCMR, and the 25 million includes that operation if Vail wins the litigation, which I think they will. I know nothing about the PCMR books. But even if PCMR nets 20 mil / year, it's still a break even proposition for Vail.

    There's got to be something much bigger than the sum total of the existing parts going on here. Epic pass synergies? I doubt it. I suspect there will be some kind of another big announcement soon....

  4. #829
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    Sounds like quite a few layoffs today at the canyons. Sucks when people lose their job...
    Last edited by Sagamoron; 06-24-2013 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #830
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    Have there been layoffs?
    “How does it feel to be the greatest guitarist in the world? I don’t know, go ask Rory Gallagher”. — Jimi Hendrix

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    Have there been layoffs?
    Yes. I think they've told everyone already who has been let go this morning.

  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    Have there been layoffs?
    No secret that they were consolidating group sales, season passes, reservations, IT...

  8. #833
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    Correct, anything that overlaps with Vails Shared Services.

  9. #834
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    May 2005
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    Go search "The Canyons Ski Resort" on Facebook and see what happens.

  10. #835
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    Sep 2005
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    Owning a couple units at the Sundial, and having lived there for a few years, I developed many friends who are/were Canyons employees. Yesterday, I was told that Vail is taking over management of the Sundial. Also, I have good friends who are employed in ticket sales, retail and other mountain ops. I wish them the best, and certainly hope that they keep their jobs. They are all top notch people who have been employed by the Can. for years.
    Time to make some phone calls...
    “How does it feel to be the greatest guitarist in the world? I don’t know, go ask Rory Gallagher”. — Jimi Hendrix

  11. #836
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    Aug 2005
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    The curse continues. This goes all the way back to "Park City West". Is the Canyons ski patrol still a Union shop?
    carpe diem vita brevis

  12. #837
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
    Go search "The Canyons Ski Resort" on Facebook and see what happens.
    Park City Mountain Resort
    The Canyons Ski Resort was merged with this page

  13. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Park City Mountain Resort
    The Canyons Ski Resort was merged with this page
    Very interesting development, were the layoffs widely expected by the workforce? These types of things are rarely a secret.

    Curious if anyone knows what angle PCMR is taking to defend themselves against the lawsuit. They can't walk into court and say we are dumb asses and missed the deadline but we promise to never do that again. Anybody?

    I guess it is possible that the investors that hold the paper could decide that having Vail operate the resort is to their benefit. Instead of foreclosing they tell Talisker work with us on this and we can keep you out of bankruptcy. This works if you can get the creditors all on the same page and there are not a lot of competing interests. BTW, in bankruptcy court union Agreements are often times about the first to go.

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by yabyum View Post
    The curse continues. This goes all the way back to "Park City West". Is the Canyons ski patrol still a Union shop?
    and very doubtful that the curse will stop after listening to vail president blaise carrig on krcl a few weeks back and the plans Vail has for the canyons. you might remember carrig, he was GM of the ASC owned canyons about a decade ago. at least he knows how to captain a sinking ship

    funny to read "i'mabigjoke" once again eat his words after a few weeks back he was championing vail and basically saying skilink was going through, once again proving what a joke you truly are.

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Park City Mountain Resort
    The Canyons Ski Resort was merged with this page
    "canyons resort" still has its facebook page.

    "THE canyons sk resort" and "THE canyons" fb pages re-route you to PCMR.

  16. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
    Very interesting development, were the layoffs widely expected by the workforce? These types of things are rarely a secret.

    Curious if anyone knows what angle PCMR is taking to defend themselves against the lawsuit. They can't walk into court and say we are dumb asses and missed the deadline but we promise to never do that again. Anybody?

    I guess it is possible that the investors that hold the paper could decide that having Vail operate the resort is to their benefit. Instead of foreclosing they tell Talisker work with us on this and we can keep you out of bankruptcy. This works if you can get the creditors all on the same page and there are not a lot of competing interests. BTW, in bankruptcy court union Agreements are often times about the first to go.
    I think all that is left after Talisker's motion to dismiss is PCMR's argument that UPCMC (Talisker land-owning subsidiary) waived the deadline by making statements after the passage of the deadline which presupposed that PCMR had exercised its option, like making references to a joint venture. The judge found that these arguments could not be dismissed on the pleadings (before discovery, without any evidence) because it was possible that PCMR could prove facts which would support a finding that Talisker had knowingly relinquished its right to insist on a written notice of its exercise of its option.

  17. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRUTAH View Post
    and very doubtful that the curse will stop after listening to vail president blaise carrig on krcl a few weeks back and the plans Vail has for the canyons. you might remember carrig, he was GM of the ASC owned canyons about a decade ago. at least he knows how to captain a sinking ship

    funny to read "i'mabigjoke" once again eat his words after a few weeks back he was championing vail and basically saying skilink was going through, once again proving what a joke you truly are.
    Where do you get your info? From your imagination? I have never championed Vail. In fact, I know very little about them. Also, I never said anything about Skilink either. You may find posturing to be entertaining, but it's not my style. When you grow up and enter the workforce, raise a family, etc., you will actually learn that the BS that is YOUR style doesn't really work. I'd tell you what I know about Skilink, but it's super double-dog dare top-secret. Besides, you probably don't want to know. You might shit yourself and cream your pants simultaneously. BTW, I DID claim that PCMR and Canyons would be joined by a lift with the next 18 months, several months ago. I also claimed that the lift has already been named, months before Vail came into the picture. Stand-by to watch my clairvoyance be proven...yet again.

    And my thoughts are also with the laid-off employees. Getting laid-off sucks. When it happens to you, the saying "where one door closes another opens," sounds like BS, but things seem to always work out.
    Last edited by itsnowjoke; 06-24-2013 at 02:40 PM.

  18. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRUTAH View Post
    and very doubtful that the curse will stop after listening to vail president blaise carrig on krcl a few weeks back and the plans Vail has for the canyons. you might remember carrig, he was GM of the ASC owned canyons about a decade ago. at least he knows how to captain a sinking ship

    HA! I didn't know Blaise was the big dog at Vail....I worked for him when he was at the bush, and later I think I worked a couple seasons at THE Canyons for him.



    My thoughts are with the Can employees, many I've known for more then a decade now and consider family.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hohes View Post
    I couldn't give a fuck, but today I am procrastinating so TGR is my filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    faceshots are a powerful currency
    get paid

  19. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
    Go search "The Canyons Ski Resort" on Facebook and see what happens.
    That's just an old place holder page made by someone in la la land, nothing to do with the Canyons
    If you can't dig it, you ain't got no shovel

  20. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsnowjoke View Post
    Where do you get your info? From your imagination? I have never championed Vail. In fact, I know very little about them. Also, I never said anything about Skilink either. You may find posturing to be entertaining, but it's not my style. When you grow up and enter the workforce, raise a family, etc., you will actually learn that the BS that is YOUR style doesn't really work. I'd tell you what I know about Skilink, but it's super double-dog dare top-secret. Besides, you probably don't want to know. You might shit yourself and cream your pants simultaneously. BTW, I DID claim that PCMR and Canyons would be joined by a lift with the next 18 months, several months ago. I also claimed that the lift has already been named, months before Vail came into the picture. Stand-by to watch my clairvoyance be proven...yet again.

    And my thoughts are also with the laid-off employees. Getting laid-off sucks. When it happens to you, the saying "where one door closes another opens," sounds like BS, but things seem to always work out.
    it sure is fun messin' with ya! you never said anything about skilink???? that is a joke!

    wish i had a desk job right now so i could further get your panties in a bunch, but alas i'm heading back into the field....

  21. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsnowjoke View Post
    ...I never said anything about Skilink either.
    Wait...what?

  22. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Wait...what?
    Grasshopper's original post was, "... championing vail and basically saying skilink was going through...", which to me would imply that I think Vail is just awesome, and that Skilink is still going through.

    Again, I know nothing about Vail. And I have said absolutely nothing regarding Skilink with Vail at the helm.

    Cheers!

  23. #848
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    Jul 2008
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    Today's Park Record says 42 were laid off and no promise that there won't be more as they move forward. In as much as The Canyons was Talisker's only ski operation no surprise that there was duplication of efforts. I did not see any mention of a missed payment or anything else for that matter.

  24. #849
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    My brain dump on all of this

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
    Curious if anyone knows what angle PCMR is taking to defend themselves against the lawsuit. They can't walk into court and say we are dumb asses and missed the deadline but we promise to never do that again. Anybody? .
    I am not a participant in the case. I'm putting this together on speculation. I think it a case of Estoppel. Canyons accepts a rent check a couple days late, and then sends a letter saying were kicking you out.

    The idea is that The Canyons can't cash the check while also kicking them out. This is strengthened by the fact that PCMR put millions into their resort in upgrades before the eviction notice hit their door.

    It is not a perfect argument from either side. The Whoops we screwed up, but you screwed up as well argument might work well in land lord tenant cases, but the court expects CEO's of corporations to understand when the rent is due and the consequences of non payment. I think the world of Jenny, but this shouldn't have happened under her watch.

    At the same time, I had heard stories of Talisker bouncing pay checks from the wives of employees in their early days in Park City. As they grew and became the biggest property owner in town I didn't care, as the people I know that worked for them were getting paid. Then they went down the path of ski link. If they got Forest service approval, and went through the proper process, I still wouldn't have cared. But they didn't and they are damaged goods in my mind. I will do anything in my power to help PCMR at this point.

    What I had heard was that they lost faith in their ability to manage the resort when all of their capital improvements didn't move the needle on skier visits. They then brought in Vail because it allows a cash stream that allows them to continue to make payments. This was probably driven by the bankers and a missed payment.

    It would really suck if Talisker wrenches control of PCMR. If it were Vail, I could live with it. A bunch of super chill people at Powder Corp would loose their jobs, and that would suck, but that is the down side of the ski industry.

    Finally, the local paper is beholden to Talisker. They report public record facts, but certainly don't do any investigation of one of their larger clients. Ditto for the Mayor and most of the county council. If you look at the conflicts, most of them have worked for or with Talisker. It would be like trying to find good people in Vail that didn’t have ties to the mountain. Some exists, but most of those people don't make the time or have an interest to sit in a public elected position. Sort of like the Colonies putting their people on the board of mountain trails and then re-routing mid-mountain and re-naming a 5 mile section of the trail something else while never having it mentioned anywhere but in the comments section of the paper. It is a ski town and ski towns are driven by developers and their groupies.(relators)

  25. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    I am not a participant in the case. I'm putting this together on speculation. I think it a case of Estoppel. Canyons accepts a rent check a couple days late, and then sends a letter saying were kicking you out.

    The idea is that The Canyons can't cash the check while also kicking them out. This is strengthened by the fact that PCMR put millions into their resort in upgrades before the eviction notice hit their door.

    It is not a perfect argument from either side. The Whoops we screwed up, but you screwed up as well argument might work well in land lord tenant cases, but the court expects CEO's of corporations to understand when the rent is due and the consequences of non payment. I think the world of Jenny, but this shouldn't have happened under her watch.

    At the same time, I had heard stories of Talisker bouncing pay checks from the wives of employees in their early days in Park City. As they grew and became the biggest property owner in town I didn't care, as the people I know that worked for them were getting paid. Then they went down the path of ski link. If they got Forest service approval, and went through the proper process, I still wouldn't have cared. But they didn't and they are damaged goods in my mind. I will do anything in my power to help PCMR at this point.

    What I had heard was that they lost faith in their ability to manage the resort when all of their capital improvements didn't move the needle on skier visits. They then brought in Vail because it allows a cash stream that allows them to continue to make payments. This was probably driven by the bankers and a missed payment.

    It would really suck if Talisker wrenches control of PCMR. If it were Vail, I could live with it. A bunch of super chill people at Powder Corp would loose their jobs, and that would suck, but that is the down side of the ski industry.

    Finally, the local paper is beholden to Talisker. They report public record facts, but certainly don't do any investigation of one of their larger clients. Ditto for the Mayor and most of the county council. If you look at the conflicts, most of them have worked for or with Talisker. It would be like trying to find good people in Vail that didn’t have ties to the mountain. Some exists, but most of those people don't make the time or have an interest to sit in a public elected position. Sort of like the Colonies putting their people on the board of mountain trails and then re-routing mid-mountain and re-naming a 5 mile section of the trail something else while never having it mentioned anywhere but in the comments section of the paper. It is a ski town and ski towns are driven by developers and their groupies.(relators)
    A couple of quick points:

    The lawsuit is interesting. The bubba's at Vail think it's such a slam-dunk, they plan on running PCMR. They are paying 25 million per year to get their foot in the door. So PCMR pays Talisker 160 grand per year in rent and Vail is going to pay them 25 million. Interesting.

    Talisker didn't really "bring Vail in", so much as they opened a bidding war amongst various ski corps. Vail won. The industry is shaking it's head, wondering how the hell Vail is going to turn a dime on this one.

    Lastly, I respectfully disagree on your take on the local paper and dignitaries regarding Talisker. Mayor Williams -a fine gentleman- fought Talisker tooth and nail over the Empire Pass development. Although he lost that battle, his stance helped earn him the mayorship. The paper? I think that it's extremely biased against Talisker. During the Skilink forum last winter, the paper proclaimed that everyone in attendance was against the project, and that just wasn't the case. We were just the quiet ones.

    Lastly, if the Forest Service overwhelmingly supported Skilink -eliminating Congressional action entirely-and signed the papers giving the right-of-way for it tomorrow, next week, or in a month.....

    Cheers,

    D

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