Rainier summit question

[Contra]

Can anyone tell me why the National Park Service doesnt allow guided ski trips to the summit? I've heard the cutoff is 10,000 feet, just curious as to why.

[PNWbrit]

Guiding on Rainier is a mess of corruption and favoritism between the park super and franchisees.

There is some guided skiing but not much.

Luckily the super has been promoted to elsewhere, although Jail time would have been a better solution. Hopefully a new regime will be improvement.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Because the National Park Service is somehow a bigger mess than the Forrest Circus. And the over protection attitude of the PS, FS, and their advocates (I'm looking at you Wilderness Society, Yellowstone Coalition, etc.)
I believe in preserving things so people can use them.

[PNWbrit]

Because the National Park Service is somehow a bigger mess than the Forrest Circus. And the over protection attitude of the PS, FS, and their advocates (I'm looking at you Wilderness Society, Yellowstone Coalition, etc.)
I believe in preserving things so people can use them.

In this particular instance I can assure you there is corruption involved between guiding franchisee and the former (as of this summer) super. Federal prosecutor in Seattle did not pursue case because of existing case load. Formal reprimand was placed on Super's DOI employee record.

Thank fuck that asshole has gone.

[gregL]

Martin Volken used to offer this trip:

http://www.proguiding.com/trip/view/...finger-descent

Not sure what the arrangment with the NPS is/was; it may have something to do with not skiing on high traffic routes like DC and Emmons.

[samthaman]

In this particular instance I can assure you there is corruption involved between guiding franchisee and the former (as of this summer) super. Federal prosecutor in Seattle did not pursue case because of existing case load. Formal reprimand was placed on Super's DOI employee record.

Thank fuck that asshole has gone.

Please, don't hold back. How do you really feel?

[Contra]

Wow that is shitty, thanks for the information. Guess we'll have to tweak our trip plans, maybe Baker or Shasta.

[gregL]

Did you call any of the licensed guide services for Rainier?

IMG, RMI, and AA are all loaded with people who are qualified ski mountaineering guides - if Pro Guiding can do it on a sporadic basis, perhaps one of these companies could as well. If they're handicapped by a park regulation they'll be the first to say so, but these days there are sometimes as many skiers at the summit as climbers.

[Contra]

Did you call any of the licensed guide services for Rainier?

IMG, RMI, and AA are all loaded with people who are qualified ski mountaineering guides - if Pro Guiding can do it on a sporadic basis, perhaps one of these companies could as well. If they're handicapped by a park regulation they'll be the first to say so, but these days there are sometimes as many skiers at the summit as climbers.

Pro Guiding was my first choice, they said they dont offer trips on Rainier at all because of the permitting, so I tried IMG, who is only permitted to go to 10,000 unfortunately.

[jgb@etree]

up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start

I'm sorry, what was the question?

[Hugh Conway]

In this particular instance I can assure you there is corruption involved between guiding franchisee and the former (as of this summer) super. Federal prosecutor in Seattle did not pursue case because of existing case load. Formal reprimand was placed on Super's DOI employee record.

Thank fuck that asshole has gone.

Saturday Seattle Times article fleshes out some details

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tml?cmpid=2628

Mount Rainier park ex-official scrutinized on land deal

In 2002, the park's superintendent sold his home to the man who had a multimillion-dollar monopoly offering climbing-guide services at the park. Details of the questionable land deal came to light only recently.

[Buster Highmen]

The details have been available for years. Uberuaga is a creep.

[skinnyskier]

The right solution would be to allow any AMGA/IFMGA guide to operate within the park and to end the concession system all together. That would reduce the chances of this kind of crap. However, the liklihood of the NPS ending its lucrative concession system is essentially zero.

[PNWbrit]

The concession system does have some advantages and is effective at getting the numbers of people who want to climb up the mountain.

I think that outside guides should be allowed a percentage of the total number of permits or be able to offer other routes and trips or custom trips different from that from the big guys. Maybe the new approach of the AMGA and the Certified Guides Cooperative will be to push for this.

Private businesses operating in a national park is never going to be easy...but it does have to be scrupulously managed and the franchise process completely transparent.

[DasBlunt]

Wow, I wish the national news would pick up this corruption story.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tml?cmpid=2628

"Uberuaga sold his three-bedroom home in 2002 to Peter Whittaker, head of Rainier Mountaineering Inc. (RMI), for $425,000, more than triple its assessed value. A five-year, owner-financed real-estate contract made the two men business partners while Uberuaga's administration was rewriting rules that would determine RMI's share of the lucrative Rainier climbing business for years to come."

[GeezerSteve]

Ending the concession for the D.C. route would result in a massive shitshow. The concession works for getting the hordes up the DC route and, to a lesser extent, the Emmons Route. (I prefer the old days when the Emmons route was the domain of private non-guided parties.) Opening up the other routes to guide operations makes sense, but I'll agree with Brit that it requires some management. Now that Uberuaga the Corrupt is out, maybe things will change for the better.

ETA: I support extending the Uberuaga investigation to Whittaker and RMI. Based my take on the available evidence, RMI's concession should be permanently yanked.

[Nick_C_123]

The right solution would be to allow any USMGA/IFMGA guide to operate within the park and to end the concession system all together. That would reduce the chances of this kind of crap. However, the liklihood of the NPS ending its lucrative concession system is essentially zero.

Probably not enough fully cert’d guides in the US to meet demand. Also one reason to seek certification is to get out of the volcano slogging trade route trenches and actually do some real climbing with your clients.

Part of RMI’s very successful summit factory is the use of new “guides” to do the grunt work – sledding gear, hiking people from Paradise to Muir etc. And there’s no shortage of of new NOLSies and BroBrahs in line for the job either. Give someone a radio, jacket, and paycheck for “guiding” and they‘re an instant badass. Great way to get your foot in the industry door though I’m sure.

I do agree there should be a substantial allotment to independent IFMGA guides. Maybe allow them to lead trips i.e. be present on the route, but have a couple non certified guides also working for them the same route? My guess is most would steer clear of the DC and go elsewhere. A lot of moderate routes might become popular for independents and their generally more skilled/savvy clients – Liberty, Kautz, Fuhrer, Mowich etc.

[skinnyskier]

All true. However, guides are slogging up Mt. Blanc every day of the climbing season. The Euro model makes a certain sense. I'd favor a Rainier guides association which books clients with fully certified, self-employed guides. If a client is in the know, they can book whomever they want for what ever route. Not going to happen, I know.

[Tye 1on]

I'll be the first to agree that the whole mess with the land deal just smells funny. But i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the deal 'buying' any influence when at the same time the park was taking away half of that concession's permit, and giving it to two other companies. That is a pretty rare and bold move, which made a lot of sense and hopefully provides a better range of options for climbers. I would guess the handwriting was on the wall that it was going to happen for a few years, and if I was that company, knowing others would be coming in and looking for land for an office, it might justify a lot higher price than most. I did notice that the land value they tossed around was 'assessed', not 'appraised', which is often half of the latter...

Just playing devil's advocate, not at all sticking up for a series of at the least dumbfuck if not wholly unethical moves...

[Buster Highmen]

Crystal Mountain borders MRNP and it was Uberuaga who tried to force Crystal to close their boundaries after nearly 40 years of open boundary policy. This was done during the Crystal Master Development PLan overseen by the Forest Cervix.

While Crystal and the Forest Cervix (your tax dollars) spent millions doing studies, evaluating policies, gathering and analyzing data and going through a public permitting process, Uberuaga tried to, at the last moment, slide in the closure provision for every one of the 6 alternatives in the Final MDP.

When a bunch of us who had been involved in the MDP reviews read the final alternatives and found the closure clauses, we filed an injunction on the MDP to stop and force meetings with the FS to find out what was going on. At this point it was reveeal that MRNP (under the Department of Interiors, Naional Parks system) had in fact forced the Forest Cervix (under The Dept of Agriculture) to quietly add in these requirements without any public input.

A meeting was called in which Uberuaga only participated via phone and when asked where the closure came from, he simple said he "felt that skiing was bad for the park".

When the Forest Cervix requires all the processes and study for the MDP, input from citizen groups, Indian tribes, even treehugging nitwits like the Crystal Conservation Coalition (you people suck) which cost millions of dollars and lots of time, everyone in the room was dumbfounded at the puerile audacity of that clown.

There's lots more about Uberuaga being sent to Yosemite as a punishment for this land deal in lieu of proecution (the prosecutor said their case load was full due to lack of funding and they didn't have the resources to prosecute him). There, he he completely mismanaged a controlled burn which went wild and burned several thousand acres in Yosemite. It's all in public record.

The guy is a pinchbag of the lowest odor. And he got promoted to Supervision of the Grand Canyon. THis is another example of how institutions become corrupt because people won't devote the time to control them.

[PNWbrit]

There, he he completely mismanaged a controlled burn which went wild and burned several thousand acres in Yosemite. It's all in public record.

Seconding what mon ami Buster says.

The burn stuff is worth a quick google. Yosemite Big Meadow fire.

This guy really shouldn't be working for your Park Service.

[GeezerSteve]

But i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the deal 'buying' any influence when at the same time the park was taking away half of that concession's permit, and giving it to two other companies. That is a pretty rare and bold move. . . .

Nothing bold about it. RMI enjoyed a dubious monopoly for years, the public's outrage boiled over years ago and busting the monopoly was inevitable. Uberuaga appears to have deliberately delayed that process and that delay greatly enriched RMI. And, in the end, RMI got to keep 50% notwithstanding the stench of corruption and patronage.

. . . the prosecutor said their case load was full due to lack of funding and they didn't have the resources to prosecute him. . . .

That's true. After 9/11, DOJ instructed U.S. Attorney Generals to allocate most of their resources to national security. Those in the U.S. Attorneys' offices who are working on non-NS are absurdly overwhelmed with cases.

[Buster Highmen]

That's true. After 9/11, DOJ instructed U.S. Attorney Generals to allocate most of their resources to national security. Those in the U.S. Attorneys' offices who are working on non-NS are absurdly overwhelmed with cases.

And this is why we need smaller government.

[AKPogue]

The guy is a pinchbag of the lowest odor. And he got promoted to Supervision of the Grand Canyon. THis is another example of how institutions become corrupt because people won't devote the time to control them.

It seems to me both public and private that only "pinchbags" get promoted. What the hell is a pinchbag? First time I have seen that word!!

[Buster Highmen]

Pinch: V. To dump, excrete, void, evacuate, empty.