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  1. #1
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    Review: 2011-2012 MOMENT PB&J, 188cm

    The PB&J is a serious contender in the battle for the one-ski-quiver crown.

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...nt-pbj-188cm-2
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  2. #2
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    Sounds like a ski that is s3-ish but a little more business like?
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  3. #3
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    Short answer: Exactly.

    Long answer: I had to resist the temptation to hijack the review with Rossi s3 comparisons. I really like the s3 and see why it's so popular. So quick, great, poppy tail, totally intuitive, great switch, good on firm - 12"+ of fresh. A huge range of skiers can have a blast on them, from newbies to experts.

    My biggest complaint with the s3 is the shovel. Too soft. Putting days on the s3 at Taos last season, skiing steep-ish, bumped up, tree lines around The North Face on firm snow, that damn shovel would just fold in half. On lower angle stuff, however, the shovels are fine. I don't take this as a design failure of the s3, just a design decision of the s3.

    The PB&J is still very intuitive, pivots, carves, slarves, pops, etc., about as well as the s3, but yeah, stiffer shovel and tail. Nice. Unless you already think the shovel and flex of the s3 is perfect (for how and where you ski), then you'll like the PB&J less.

  4. #4
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    Any chance of getting a rocker/sandwich picture? Does the 188 ski a little longer then the 186 s3 I hope?

    Like my s3s but they are a little squirrely at speed, shovels are soft, and they ski so short (which probably accounts for squirrely-ness)
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  5. #5
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    Would you say they're as good on groomers as the S3? Those things rail.

    Also, where is the recommended mounting point relative to true centre?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac View Post
    Any chance of getting a rocker/sandwich picture? Does the 188 ski a little longer then the 186 s3 I hope?

    Like my s3s but they are a little squirrely at speed, shovels are soft, and they ski so short (which probably accounts for squirrely-ness)
    Sure, VPM. I'll get rocker shots up by tonight.

    The PB&J aren't squirrely at speed, don't have super soft shovels (but to be clear, they aren't beasts, either), and definitely ski a little longer than the s3. If memory serves, straight tape pull on the s3 is around 183, and I just measured again and a straight tape pull on the PB&J comes in around 186 & 1/4.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    Would you say they're as good on groomers as the S3? Those things rail.

    Also, where is the recommended mounting point relative to true centre?
    I like the s3s on groomers, too. To me the PB&J felt more solid than the s3, especially the more those groomers got skied and chopped a bit. They don't get knocked off line or deflect as much. Both the s3 and PB&J do well on smooth, even slightly soft groomers. Get either of them on ice and a bit of pitch, however, and the rockered tails will want to wash / release a bit (unlike, say, the Rossignol Experience 98 - now THAT ski rails - or the MOMENT Belafonte), if you're making high angulation turns.

    And I'll measure distance from true center tonight.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFE24 View Post
    The PB&J aren't squirrely at speed, don't have super soft shovels (but to be clear, they aren't beasts, either), and definitely ski a little longer than the s3.
    Soooo....pair them up with ft12s and they should be a great downhill oriented touring rig? Heavy skis?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    Soooo....pair them up with ft12s and they should be a great downhill oriented touring rig? Heavy skis?
    Hmmm, good question. For whatever reason, it's never occurred to me to consider this ski for a touring setup. They're not light, but they're not beasts. (I really need to replace my digital scale that died....) I definitely lean more toward AT rigs in the 110mm-115mm range, since, if I'm touring, my objective is untracked pow, and I'll put up with frozen chop to get it. But deep untracked is where I want the ski to shine. Over the past two years, my AT setups have been the Wailer 112RP and the PRAXIS Concept, and both fall in that 110-115mm range, are outstanding in pow (IF you set up the Concepts about 2cm back), and are good to excellent in all the rest.

    The PB&J could be a fantastic rig, and I think it would depend mostly on where you live and how deep things get when you tour. I'd also consider the Rossi s6 / Sickle (110mm) as a good option, and the 11/12 Black Diamond Zealot as a dark horse AT rig, especially for people lighter than, say, 165lbs. (I'll be getting to reviews of both the BD 11/12 Zealots and 11/12 Megawatts soon.)

    The more I think about it, though, the more I can see throwing ft12s on a pair of PB&Js. Given my 110-115mm bias, the other skis I've named just sort of seem to be the more obvious choices, if not the obviously BETTER choices.

  10. #10
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    I thought 110 was the new 100? Or was it just that we had a big year. damn.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFE24 View Post
    The PB&J could be a fantastic rig, and I think it would depend mostly on where you live and how deep things get when you tour. I'd also consider the Rossi s6 / Sickle (110mm) as a good option, and the 11/12 Black Diamond Zealot as a dark horse AT rig, especially for people lighter than, say, 165lbs. (I'll be getting to reviews of both the BD 11/12 Zealots and 11/12 Megawatts soon.)

    The more I think about it, though, the more I can see throwing ft12s on a pair of PB&Js. Given my 110-115mm bias, the other skis I've named just sort of seem to be the more obvious choices, if not the obviously BETTER choices.
    Well, I weigh in at around 180lbs. However I already own megawatts and cease&desists/NTN, and 138s and EHPs/dukes, so I guess I'm covered when it comes to powder oriented rigs. Would like something versatile and lighter for longer / spring tours.

    Another question: you have tested 188s, but when checking bc and evo, bc lists 162,172,182 and 192s and evo lists 170, 180 and 190s. Will 188 be one of the lengths available later on?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    Well, I weigh in at around 180lbs. However I already own megawatts and cease&desists/NTN, and 138s and EHPs/dukes, so I guess I'm covered when it comes to powder oriented rigs. Would like something versatile and lighter for longer / spring tours.

    Another question: you have tested 188s, but when checking bc and evo, bc lists 162,172,182 and 192s and evo lists 170, 180 and 190s. Will 188 be one of the lengths available later on?
    Wow, that's one hell of an AT quiver! And yes, given what you've already got, I could see PB&Js with FT12s. "Light," of course, is relative, but this will definitely run lighter than your other setups.

    As for sizes, my understanding is that the PB&J will come in 162, 172, 182, and 188. There is no 192 and 190 available. 188cm is the longest length, unless MOMENT has suddenly switched things up, which I doubt.

  13. #13
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    I'm really torn between these skis and the TST's as my EC daily driver... real tough call.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_Coast View Post
    I'm really torn between these skis and the TST's as my EC daily driver... real tough call.
    Yup... would love to know the effective edge of 192 TST vs 188 PBJ
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  15. #15
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    MOMENT claims that the effective edge of the 188 PB&J is 1560mm.

    Not sure about the 192 TST.

  16. #16
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    Great review. Blistergearreview is always good. These, and all Moment skis, will be available for demo/sale throughout the wasatch by wasatchpowderskis.com
    A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
    ― Milton Friedman

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac View Post
    Yup... would love to know the effective edge of 192 TST vs 188 PBJ
    is "Effective edge" the edge that isn't rockered?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_Coast View Post
    is "Effective edge" the edge that isn't rockered?
    basically yes, the edge in contact with the snow during a carved turn.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtbthree View Post
    basically yes, the edge in contact with the snow during a carved turn.
    not to hijack the thread, but I've always had traditional camber skis.. when carving a turn on hardpack doesn't the rockered tip/edge essentially engage? floats in through pow/crud, but when rolling on edge the whole ski engages?

  20. #20
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    PB&J is EASILY the most fun ski I've ever been on. If I had a use for it, I would try my damn hardest to find a home for it in my quiver. I don't ski park but I certainly wish I did after my first run on them. They hold plenty edge under foot but with the amount of tip and tail rocker, they made skiing groomers sooo much fun. Yes, I have an affiliation with Moment, but I had the biggest shit-eating grin on the PB&J.
    Last edited by PappaG; 08-26-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PappaG View Post
    PB&J is EASILY the most fun ski I've ever been on. If I had a use for it, I would try my damn hardest to find a home for it in my quiver. I don't ski park but I certainly wish I did after my first run on them. They hold plenty edge under foot but with the amount of tip and tail rocker, they made skiing groomers sooo much fun. Yes, I have an affiliation with Moment, but I had the biggest shit-eating grin on the PB&J.... if only it came in a 110-ish waist for my powder whoring expeditions.
    you tell more now
    Do I detect a lot of anger flowing around this place? Kind of like a pubescent volatility, some angst, a lot of I'm-sixteen-and-angry-at-my-father syndrome?

    fuck that noise.

    gmen.

  22. #22
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    The PB&J sounds amazing. I found the tips of the TST to be waaaay to soft, but it was the 183, not 192. Perhaps the big size is a little different. Definitely sounds like more of a charger than the S3. I'd guess that the S3 might be a bit better in the trees due to it's softer tip and shorter length, but I've found that it (and the S7 for that matter) suffer everywhere else because they're a bit soft (and ski a bit short).

    I'd love to get out on the PB&J.....and then the ON3P Jeffrey back-to-back and see how they compare. Although I am really hoping it's another big year and that the Wrenegade will be as small as I ever need as an all-mountain ski.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wren View Post
    The PB&J sounds amazing. I found the tips of the TST to be waaaay to soft, but it was the 183, not 192. Perhaps the big size is a little different. Definitely sounds like more of a charger than the S3. I'd guess that the S3 might be a bit better in the trees due to it's softer tip and shorter length, but I've found that it (and the S7 for that matter) suffer everywhere else because they're a bit soft (and ski a bit short).

    I'd love to get out on the PB&J.....and then the ON3P Jeffrey back-to-back and see how they compare. Although I am really hoping it's another big year and that the Wrenegade will be as small as I ever need as an all-mountain ski.
    Wren, as I hint at in my review, it seems to me that the more direct comparison - based wholly on specs - would be between the PB&J and the slightly retooled Jeronimo. 188 vs. 186, 129-101-121 vs. 126-96-120, effective edge: 156 vs. 157. Both are pitched as all mountain skis that can handle some park.

    The Jeffrey is fatter, obviously, but you think it sounds like the better comparison to the PB&J? (E.g., That if we're talking one-ski-quiver, ON3P would say it's the Jeffrey rather than the Jeronimo?)

  24. #24
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    PB&J Rocker Profile Pics

    Quote Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac View Post
    Any chance of getting a rocker/sandwich picture? Does the 188 ski a little longer then the 186 s3 I hope?
    Here you go. Pictures with just the velcro ski carry strap are cambered, pictures with the clamp, decambered.
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  25. #25
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    PB&J Mount Point

    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    Where is the recommended mounting point relative to true centre?
    DC, my pair of PB&Js doesn't have a recommended line, but I played with the mount position a bit and I love where I've been skiing them. Follow suit at your own peril....

    Straight tape pull, tip to tail, on the PB&J = 186.3 cms
    True center = 93.15 cms
    My boot sole center = 88.9 cms from the tail
    Set back from true center = 4.25 cms

    My (horribly subjective) take on this is that somebody who was going to hit the flippy / spinny stuff hard could move these forward 1 or 2 cms and be fine. For more directional skiers, I don't think these need to get mounted further back.

    I hate getting tip dive when I'm skiing centered in pow, and some of the more forward mounts that definitely make life better for the flippy spinny action can certainly compromise this. At -4.25cm from true center, I wasn't getting tip dive or getting bucked forward. Seems to me that this ski has a pretty large sweet spot with respect to the mount position. Go +1 or -1 of my line, and you'll likely be fine. But I'm sticking at 88.9 from the tail.

    It'll be interesting to see where MOMENT ends up drawing the line.

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