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Thread: School a JONG

  1. #26
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    3 Types of boater:

    Those that can roll;
    Those that can't;
    Those that don't need to.

    If you wanna be the latter, learn to read the water. Where it's going, what it will do to you, where you want to go, what will help you to get there.

    Paddle forward, go forward, lean forward. Take a stroke off the lip of drops, and land on a stroke. Lean forwards. Keep a paddle blade in the water at all times.

    Don't be scared about having the boat on edge - it's usually better than having it flat.

    Use all of your body, not just your arms.

    Learn to roll anyway.

  2. #27
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    Oct 2010
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    Read William Nealy's Kayak.
    Take a class. Not just a roll class. A kayaking class.
    Always always always think safety first or you will die sooner than some of my friends have kayaking.
    At some point take a swift water rescue class if you get Hooked, but a good kayaking class should teach you a sufficient amount of rescue skills to get you started.
    If you aspire to boat the shit then forget about buying a creek boat for at least a year or probably many since you live wisconsin and not somewhere with year round high quality easy access boating. Get a playboat and play and run fun easy rivers in it.
    Buy used stuff sure.

    Have fun. Kayaking is the shit.
    No matter where you go, there you are. - BB

  3. #28
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    Apr 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by NlytendOne View Post
    1. Buy used - the older and more out-of-date, the better. Kayaks under 10' shouldn't be on your radar as they are too easy to paddle. Preferably invest in a brand that starts with "P" and doesn't sport a logo of a fish. Perception and Prijon are good choices. Double points for Perception, since they don't even make boats anymore.
    Learn how to roll.

    2. Do NOT paint your paddle anything fluorescent or "hi-viz". This only makes it obvious that you intend to swim and lose your paddle. Kayakers will be wary. It is better to invest in a black paddle and a black boat - it should give you more incentive to.....
    ...Learn how to roll. Better yet - dress in all black as well.

    3. Stay away from "clubs" - they usually swim a lot and like to talk about how they've "lost their roll" or how their roll isn't "quite there yet" even though they've been paddling for "almost 10 years now". These, of course, are just excuses for not enough time spent learning. Avoid these clubs on the river at all costs, as they will probably end up screwing up your line or needing you to rescue one or more of their members. They're easy enough to spot, as their groups are usually dangerously large and they gawk a lot when you don't get out and scout. If you are hungry, though - they usually have some food to share with you. You may get within arms-length of them at this time. Grab a bite, wish them luck, and get the hell out of there.
    Learn how to roll.

    4. Avoid taking a class, unless its sole purpose is to teach you how to roll and the instructor is both female and buxom and insists on a "hands-on" approach to teaching. Most books on the subject are completely and utterly useless. The instructor should have no need for a pfd, paddle, kayak, or anything kayaking related. The importance of these factors will soon become evident.
    Learn how to roll.

    5. Start paddling on easy moving or flatwater.
    Practice your roll.

    6. Once the water starts flowing - learn how to read water, recognize the omnipotent eddy, and rely on it. Contrary to popular belief - you can stop in the middle of a rapid.
    Practice your roll.

    7. As the gradient or volume picks up - learn how to recognize danger spots and death traps, but focus on where you need to be and how to get there efficiently.

    8. Take a swiftwater rescue class or read the book by Charlie Walbridge - twice. Practice. Then read it again - twice.

    9. Progress through easier water up to wherever you can handle the pucker-factor.

    10. Recognize that fear is healthy and use it to your advantage, rather than your disadvantage. Read William Nealy's "KAYAK".


    If you've learned how to roll - congratulations you are a KAYAKER! If not, you are still a JONG. Refer to #4 above and try to pay attention this time.

    By #6, the roll practice should be coming in the form of rolling under pressure. If you aren't flipping in rapids very often - make yourself flip over. Sure this is counter-intuitive, but you know what else is? Being upside down in a fucking kayak! Just because you're upright doesn't make you good at rolling, does it? Make a game out of it or something.


    As you can see - you need to learn how to roll. Swimming is always bad form, and can easily be the difference between dead and alive - on any river and at any time. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise, or that swimming is "all part of the experience" is either a JONG or a raft guide in disguise. There is nothing that says "I am a badass kayaker" to those who know nothing about kayaking, than being able to roll. Do tourists ask you to swim out of your boat? No. All they want to see is you roll. Ask yourself, "what is going to get me laid?" Is it swimming like a fish hopped-up on meth, or is it a smooth and effortless roll? You don't even have to run the rapid to get laid - that's really not very impressive - hell, water moves downhill and everybody knows this. If I threw a big fucking log in the river it would go over the falls, too. Whoop-de-fucking-do. Any knucklehead can paddle over the lip. It's the roll at the bottom of the rapid after you fuck up your line that impresses the chicks.

    Swimmers are the easiest JONG's to ID on easy water and the most scared out of their fucking minds on more difficult and/or dangerous water. Don't be a JONG. Seriously, if you live - you'll just end up looking stupid. The best way to avoid looking stupid is to learn how to roll early and often.

    A solid roll will take a lot out of the "learning curve" and will give you confidence on the river. Notice I didn't say "balls". Confidence does not equal balls. If they are synonymous in your mind - promptly find the biggest waterfall around and paddle over the lip. If you survive, quit now while you're ahead.

    As soon as you become complacent - your days are numbered...it is only a matter of time before you quit, die, or come to your senses and realize that you are being an idiot - hopefully this epiphany will come at an opportune time and not at a time where death is imminent.

    Be smart about it and have fun. Stupid stuff will always happen even if you have everything dialed. Hopefully it gives the chance to learn from the situation.

    Invest in a good helmet - not made out of plastic and without a fucking faceguard. Helmets that are plastic are not helmets, and having a faceguard will only let you believe that you are safer and will allow you to dismiss fear and paddle rapids well beyond your actual ability. Don't do this. The threat of having your face bashed in by the riverbed will help you stay true to the form of your foward-tucking bomber roll. It will also help you see how ridiculous the back deck roll is. If this isn't already obvious - buy a playboat. Of course, this will render you useless as a kayaker, but it might land you a job as a raft guide. The only time a full-face helmet is acceptable in kayaking is when balls = confidence. Remember this, and the laughter you hear behind you can only be in regards to something other than your helmet.

    It's as simple as learning how to roll, really. Good luck.

    Edit: and stay away from Boatertalk - almost everyone over there is either a JONG or a raft guide in disguise. Or both. You've been warned.
    Good advice here overall. Boo on your full-face mask rant though.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Awesome video Root!!!!

    It's been 4 weeks-Jer should be running class IV by now.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by dak244 View Post
    I'm in the same boat (pun intended) as the OP. This is good info, I very much appreciate it..
    Same here. Great thread: thanks, guys.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New States
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    Just saw this thread. I would add one suggestion to help develope basic skills: Practice paddling upstream.

    This will help teach you to read water and currents, improve most of your basic strokes and boat control and give you a good work out even on a pretty mellow stream. If you go out with an accomplished paddler you will immediately be able to see the difference in skills by how much more work you are doing going upstream.
    "I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary." -Yogi Berra

  7. #32
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    Feb 2008
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    Bump for discussion emailed to me recently: http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052325900/

    So relevant in so many ways...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatertalk user "920"
    So here we go....
    The assertion by some is that there is a trend towards paddling beyond skills.
    I have made statements on here saying the same thing, but I am an asshole and they usually come across as such.

    My opinion is that there are three contributing factors toward this trend:
    1- Kayaking has been lumped in with "extreme sports". It is much more entertaining to watch big waterfalls and beatdowns than it is to watch freestyle or class 3-4 river running. So when someone new comes to kayaking now, the first thing they see on video is people being "extreme" and everyone else talking about how awesome it is. Unless you are really into freestyle, slalom, instruction, or river running, those things are boring to watch. So the majority of the media focus lately has been on "running the shit". I love it and so do the rest of you.
    2-As riekof said, the internet perpetuates this. We have this outlet to show ourselves off and we all know that nobody wants to see our run on the Nantahala. And we can sit at work and watch 200 videos of Oceana or Gorilla being run every which way possible and they always come out the bottom. So when the weekend gets here, we are fired up to get out of the office and fire up that rapid we watched all week. I do it. I love it and so do the rest of you.
    3-Kayaking really does not have that many participants. I mean, we do have a good number, but we are kind of a niche market. How many people show up for Gaulley Fest? 2-3000? That is how many people do the Leadville 100 mtn bike race. I would bet that one day at a huge ski resort sees more users than people who legitimately paddle class 3 or better. Point being, the best kayakers in the world are very accessible to all of us. We are likely to see Pat, Grace or Holcome on any given weekend. And they are likely to share a beer and few stories. The average snowboarder is never going hang out with Jeremy Jones or Shawn White. So the top end just feels more accessible because we see them all the time even on the Ocoee or Cheoah. I love it and so do the rest of you.


    I am sure that other factors contribute to this trend, but those are the ones that stick out to me. Disagree, agree, call me an asshole, whatever.

    Last year, I had some heated/entertaining exchanges about full face helmets and protective wear with a few folks on here. I said people were counting on gear to save them from being in over their head. I said that the best protection you can get is sound judgment and solid skills executed with confidence. I never said any of those items were bad ideas. But as if to prove my point, I saw two people on Green Race day that had full face helmets and busted up faces. Pad yourself up all you want, god knows I do, but it will not save you every time. Trust me. My body still hurts from bad decisions 10-15 years ago.

    I am off to work. Have fun with this one. I will check back at the end of the day.
    Collectively enlightened since 2008.
    Eddie would go.

  8. #33
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    Oct 2005
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    ^^Good stuff. NlytenedOne is a much better kayaker than I'll ever be, but I disagree with his views on the back deck roll (as does EJ and many others), but that is a discussion for another thread...
    Montani Semper Liberi

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarsB View Post
    ^^Good stuff. NlytenedOne is a much better kayaker than I'll ever be, but I disagree with his views on the back deck roll (as does EJ and many others), but that is a discussion for another thread...
    lulz - the "school a jong" reply i posted a while back was never meant to be taken very seriously (i'm a class II boater who's just too lazy to punch out...and besides - this is the internetz).

    the back deck roll, paddling clubs, and full-face helmets all work just dandy when used properly.

    heck, even boatertalk.com could be helpful (if they ever could get the most recent thread activity to the top). or not.

    ps - don't swim in the creek!
    Last edited by NlytendOne; 11-18-2011 at 02:35 PM.
    Collectively enlightened since 2008.
    Eddie would go.

  10. #35
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    north aspect
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    i like this learn to roll philosophy.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Electric Larry Land
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldwater View Post
    3 Types of boater:

    Those that can roll;
    Those that can't;
    Those that don't need to.

    If you wanna be the latter, learn to read the water. Where it's going, what it will do to you, where you want to go, what will help you to get there.

    Paddle forward, go forward, lean forward. Take a stroke off the lip of drops, and land on a stroke. Lean forwards. Keep a paddle blade in the water at all times.

    Don't be scared about having the boat on edge - it's usually better than having it flat.

    Use all of your body, not just your arms.

    Learn to roll anyway.
    Damn solid post, Coldwater. Sums it up with finesse and TRUTH.

    --

    EDIT: Reading this again, I agree with everything except the one about not to be scared about having the boat on edge. Okay, I agree with that...nothing to be scared of. But I DON'T agree with what you said after: "it's usully better than having it flat."

    I think in terms of bouyancy, center of mass and center of effort, flat is better. You're upright and ready for the next set of rapids (or waves, if sea-kayaking). While you're upright, you're at maximum bouyancy. When you're off that centerline (on edge, dug in, heeled over, on your side, keeled over...whatever you want to call it), you are that much closer to that capsizing point. So that is not necessarily a good thing.

    But you are right that one shouldn't be scared of being on edge....and in some cases it IS better, as you'll have less draft (just like heeling sailboat) to get over certain creek bottom rock obstacle. Don't be scared of it...learn how to use it as a tactic.

    But still, it's not 'usually' better.

    --
    Last edited by Alaskan Rover; 12-14-2011 at 09:20 PM.
    "The reason death sticks so closely to life isn't biological necessity - it's envy. Life is so beautiful that death has fallen in love with it; a jealous, possesive love that grabs at what it can." by Yann Martel from Life of Pi



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