2011-2012 ON3P Skis Available for Presale

[wren]

The 2012 Cease & Desist is life-changingly good. Seriously.

Scott, Jay and I worked hard on this design tweaking the dimensions a bit to separate it from the new 191 Billy Goat, but not making it too big. No bigger than 150 in the tip and 130 underfoot, for heavy PNW pow you don't usually need anything much bigger (I got my wish). It's also a touch longer at 193 to separate itself again. Much more rocker to help float and pivotability.

I've skied the past 2 iterations of the C&D and while very good, they haven't been able to pivot as I would like. Still way too good on groomers as opposed to having the short running length for the trees. More rocker was added to the 2011s, but still not enough. The 2012s have a ton (obviously, as you can see), but the rise is not nearly as much as the Caylor or even the Billy Goat. My pair actually has less, something around 65-70mm I think, so less tip height than the Wrenegade. For heavier guys this was deemed to be too little and they ski might suffer a bit in the crud, but I have had absolutely no complaints.

First off, in the pow these are downright spectacular. They pivot like no tomorrow in the trees but are stiff and straight enough to haul anywhere in pretty much any soft snow type condition. I put a couple days on some Big Dumps this year and while they can haul, they have too much camber/not enough rocker to ski the trees or the deep (in my opinion). The C&Ds float like crazy. Having close to double the tip rocker and a little extra girth it very very noticeable here. The biggest difference is in the crud and cut-up pow though. The longer low-rise tip absolutely slices though it and the ski is nice and stiff to let you take as much speed in as you want. The tail hasn't really been changed (apart from the rocker profile) and still provides plenty of support for landings and keeping you locked in on big turns. The biggest surprise of this ski might actually be how well (comparatively speaking) these ski groomers and the resort. The running length is tiny, but the elliptical rocker makes the sidecut length longer than the 2011 (and maybe even the original protos). They can carve pretty damn well and come alive even with only a little fresh snow. This brings me back to why I don't see myself using the Billy Goats much more, these are that good. Honestly I would consider it a whole new ski, it skis better than the old one in every single way. I haven't been on a Pillow Fight (yet) but the new C&D is the best soft snow ski I have ever been on. I'm so stoked on this ski.

[mtnjam]

181 or 191 Wren?

[wren]

191. I'll update the original post.

[Magnoe]

Thank you, Wren, for thoroughly confusing me. I'm looking hard at buying the 186 Billy Goat to be my daily driver and then you announce your Billy Goats are going into the closet. I reaaaaaaally appreciate this, buddy.

[XavierD]

Wren does not have the 191 BG, he is talking about the 186. Both Scott and I will be using the 191 BG as our primary ski. The 191 BG captures enough of the wrens stability that I dont see myself replacing my 191 Wrens, but will instead let them retire.

[emr]

What is the mount point on the 191 BG? I thought I saw in the other thread -14, but I can't find that again, and I was seaching from my phone. If it is -14 that seems like a decent amount of tip and no tail, especially with the tail rocker. Have I been smoking crack again?

This seems like a ski I've been seaching for... similar to the ehp with more sidecut that can charge and pivot.

[wren]

No I don't have the 191 (Yet) but Billy also doesn't have the new Wrenegade. That being said, if I were to only have one ski, or one big ski, it would be the 191 BG hands down. It is awesome. I've only had a couple runs on it, and the conditions were awesome, but it was a definite difference than my 186. I mentioned this is another thread, if you want one, get the 191 BG, if you want two, get the Wren/C&D, if you can get three, get them all.

Also, having skied 3 of the new skis with the elliptical rocker I don't doubt the 186 will ski much much better on the groomers and in the crud. Definitely the groomers though. The tranistion between the rocker/taper point and the sidecut is what caused that hook or catch that some people have complained about in the past, and have dealt with by detuning the tips. I never thought it was too big a deal, but my Wrenegades do ski much much better so I can only imagine the new 186 BGs will too.

Edit to add: Nothing against the 186 BG. I still have had more days on it than the rest of my skis combined. I just tend to like bigger skis. The 186 is a better tree ski than the 191, but I prefer the new C&D to both of them.

Also, pretty sure the mounting point on the 191 BG is -8.

[Sessiøn]

What is the mount point on the 191 BG? I thought I saw in the other thread -14, but I can't find that again, and I was seaching from my phone. If it is -14 that seems like a decent amount of tip and no tail, especially with the tail rocker. Have I been smoking crack again?

This seems like a ski I've been seaching for... similar to the ehp with more sidecut that can charge and pivot.

THE -14 MOUNT WAS A MISTAKE!

Just want to clarify.

[oftpiste]

I dont see myself replacing my 191 Wrens, but will instead let them retire.

sell them to me.

[XavierD]

They are three years old, been ridden hard, and more then ready to retire.

[bouguer]

i'll probably be selling me 09-10 191 wrens soon to fund some 191 BG's. Or should i get 186 BG's and keep my wrens... damn on3p and their burly, awesome skis.

[robnow]

Both Scott and I will be using the 191 BG as our primary ski.

Don't forget about me!! We've been blessed with the winter that never ends but I must have at least 30-40 days now on the 191 BGs. Really have had no need to get on anything else, but again, its been soft snow EVERY day around Whistler. I'll probably pick up Wrens for firm days, but really, those BGs are going to see 80% of the action. Enough float, pivotability, and chargeability to cover most conditions/locations.

[IJ]

has anybody been on the jeffrey's yet? Can anyone comment on their ability to hold rails on groomers and chopped fresh compared to Viciks? I like the sound of a more playful ski that holds its own in chopped and groomers, but I already have my quiver set for anything more than 6inches of fresh with my BG's and Caylors so they won't really see much fresh other than a few cm.... I'm debating which would be a better suit for me between the two. Obviously the Vicik will be much more suited for ripping like Iggy said, but if the Jeffrey still hold their own very well, and they are more playful and versatile I feel like that might be a better fit.... but it has been frustrating me not having a ski that rails on the hard days or spring days.... Right now I use Czars sometimes but usually my 191 Caylors which actually do quite well considering, but they obviously aren't meant for those days.

[PowTron]

The 2012 Cease & Desist is life-changingly good. Seriously.

Scott, Jay and I worked hard on this design tweaking the dimensions a bit to separate it from the new 191 Billy Goat, but not making it too big. No bigger than 150 in the tip and 130 underfoot, for heavy PNW pow you don't usually need anything much bigger (I got my wish). It's also a touch longer at 193 to separate itself again. Much more rocker to help float and pivotability.

I've skied the past 2 iterations of the C&D and while very good, they haven't been able to pivot as I would like. Still way too good on groomers as opposed to having the short running length for the trees. More rocker was added to the 2011s, but still not enough. The 2012s have a ton (obviously, as you can see), but the rise is not nearly as much as the Caylor or even the Billy Goat. My pair actually has less, something around 65-70mm I think, so less tip height than the Wrenegade. For heavier guys this was deemed to be too little and they ski might suffer a bit in the crud, but I have had absolutely no complaints.

First off, in the pow these are downright spectacular. They pivot like no tomorrow in the trees but are stiff and straight enough to haul anywhere in pretty much any soft snow type condition. I put a couple days on some Big Dumps this year and while they can haul, they have too much camber/not enough rocker to ski the trees or the deep (in my opinion). The C&Ds float like crazy. Having close to double the tip rocker and a little extra girth it very very noticeable here. The biggest difference is in the crud and cut-up pow though. The longer low-rise tip absolutely slices though it and the ski is nice and stiff to let you take as much speed in as you want. The tail hasn't really been changed (apart from the rocker profile) and still provides plenty of support for landings and keeping you locked in on big turns. The biggest surprise of this ski might actually be how well (comparatively speaking) these ski groomers and the resort. The running length is tiny, but the elliptical rocker makes the sidecut length longer than the 2011 (and maybe even the original protos). They can carve pretty damn well and come alive even with only a little fresh snow. This brings me back to why I don't see myself using the Billy Goats much more, these are that good. Honestly I would consider it a whole new ski, it skis better than the old one in every single way. I haven't been on a Pillow Fight (yet) but the new C&D is the best soft snow ski I have ever been on. I'm so stoked on this ski.

I will add my first initial impressions after we got the first version out:

OK, here goes...

I have put two days on them now. The first day was a groomer / chopped sun crust day.

Day 1:

They are fast as hell, and they track really well on packed powder and groomers. They also destroy chopped up 3 to 4" of crud and blown around snow really, really well. The tip height is a little lower, but it does power through the snow.

They are a lot more work on my legs than Caylors or Wrens on hard snow, but that is to be expected as the shape and width/length is a lot of ski. They almost feel like a full reverse/reverse if you are not standing right over them, and engaging the edges on hard snow.

The second day was yesterday, and the snow was amazingly deep:

Day 2:

The conditions were about as good as they get for CO. 40" in the last 4 days, with windloading and a solid 90" base or so underneath...even deeper out the gates and the sidecountry.

In chopped up 6 to 8" of pow, with a hard layer underneath, the skis did kind of work me if I got backseat. They wanted to track and split on me at times if I was not paying full attention. I did notice the tip height being lower here, and it was for sure diving under the snow before exploding back up through as the ski traveled over it's really long rocker.

The good part about this is I was getting faceshots in 6" of fresh at speed . It could be I am not used to them yet, but that is my take. If you really muscle them, they will do what you want, but you cannot be lazy at all.

In the trees, when you back off the nose they pivot on a dime...awesome.

In the wide open, they are exactly what I was hoping for. They are rockets, and they plane up on the snow so easily. The tips just float a tad over the surface, and you can really lean into them and charge on them, or you can back off and smear them around with ease.

As soon as I hit some tracks, though...they bucked me. Right here is where I can see the tip being that 5 to 8mm higher helping a lot. Even when sliding sideways over rollers in untracked, and then sliding into tracked snow, it was like the tips were getting caught.

The last two runs of the day were in East Vail, a hike to area outside the gates. The pitch is consistent 35 to 40 degrees, for about 2K vert feet...and the snow was the deepest I have EVER seen in there. Legitimate waist deep on every turn, all completely untracked.

In THIS snow, these are my favorite powder skis ever. They dig in under the snow, then explode back up tossing snow over your head on every turn. They are amazing easy to turn at slow or high speed, and they smear around like a Praxis Pow if you want, or you can make them track for huge turns like a beefed up Prophet 130.

The tip height wasn't as noticeable in this stuff, but the snow was also incredibly blower...East Vail had an honest 40" of untouched on top of a super solid base.

Summary:

The proto destroys pillows, STOMPS landings so easily off of anything between 10 and 20 feet (biggest I went), and can pivot and smear at slow speeds or track and plane up on snow super easy at high speeds...there is absolutely no speed limit that I could find, the ski is the most solid fat ski I have ever been on hands down.

The only issues I had were in really chopped up, bumpy stuff...got the ankle bang, like skiing spatulas or Praxis Pows...but that could be due to my style. I have a hard time laying off of skis and want to put them on edge in that stuff. The tips did seem a tad low in snow like this. It did plow through it, but would get caught at times and want to split off in different directions.

In powder, though...which is what this is made for, it is a dream. I would not change the length, width, or flex at all. It is almost perfect.

All I would change at this point is the tip height...but do it in a way that the rocker profile is untouched. The longer, more gradual rocker is perfect for this ski shape and design. So take where the tips on the very end continue that, and curve them up just a tad more and this thing will be perfect in my opinion.

Let me know if that makes sense. I think we hit one out of the park for a big, fast, fun pow ski....for sure.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only issue we had was with tip height as you can see, and it has now been corrected for the production model for us "biggins". Alex, Scott, and I really worked a lot on this ski, and I truly feel it got the best of all of our ideas into it. Perfect mix of speed, pivot-ability, slarve, carve...you name it, this ski can pretty much do it if it is softer snow.

I have now put 5 to 7 days on these in my rotation, and I am completely used to the skis. They are incredibly easy to ski for boards this size. It just took a day or two to adjust to the feeling, and I was off and sliding.

It floats side to side like a full reverse/reverse ski in deep pow, and immediately feels WAY shorter than a 193cm ski in the deep trees. As soon as you get it in wide open terrain (bowls, etc) it turns into a fat charger. SOOOO versatile.

C&D 193cm is the best pow ski I have ever been on for more of a "traditional feel" at speed, but still allows smeary reverse camber style turns in the trees and everywhere on the mountain.

Edit to add: The extra tip height doesn't seem like it hurt the lighter weight guys, but it for sure helped slightly heavier folks. I am 5'10", and 200lbs stark naked...so with that extra 5-7mm on production, it will really help keep the tip where it needs to be in chop.

We also wrestled back and forth on dimensions as I ski in Colorado Blower more than heavy stuff like Alex or Scott, but I think this truly added to the versatility of the design. No matter the type of snowpack you are on, this ski can handle all of it.

[bennettc14]

So is the Vicik still the go to EC ski or what? I'd assume a 191 Wren might be a little much on most days.

[PowTron]

So is the Vicik still the go to EC ski or what? I'd assume a 191 Wren might be a little much on most days.

Depends where you ski...do you ride a place like Jay Peak, or plan on more years like you had this year? Or do you ride Waterville Valley on bulletproof all the time?

The Vicik is probably the safer all around bet, unless you are a bigger guy and ski in the more "deep" areas. I know someone who has 191 Wrens in VT and skis them everyday, all day.

If you like wider skis go with the Wren, if not and are gun shy go with the Vicik. Can't go wrong with either one.

[bern43]

So is the Vicik still the go to EC ski or what? I'd assume a 191 Wren might be a little much on most days.

I'm using my Viciks as my everyday driver. Super deep day I'd probably bring something else out, but for everything else they've been great. They ski pow really well, but obviously not as well as something a bit wider with more rocker.

[bennettc14]

^ Yeah my everyday driver was some 187 XXLs which I'm trying to kick for something a little lighter with some tip rocker. Before that I was on the Lhasa everyday so I can't completely dismiss the Wren.

[bern43]

^ Yeah my everyday driver was some 187 XXLs which I'm trying to kick for something a little lighter with some tip rocker. Before that I was on the Lhasa everyday so I can't completely dismiss the Wren.

If you're coming from XXLs you'd probably be fine with Wrens. Despite my best intentions I end up skiing crap conditions quite a bit, which is one of the reasons I went with a Vicik. I like the Viciks better than Lhasas though. But I was on one of the first pairs of 191s, which were too soft so that might explain it. Either way I think you'd be happy.

[PowTron]

If you're coming from XXL's you'd probably be fine with Wrens.

This, plus if you skied Lhasa width and liked it, the Wren is like combining the best of both of those skis.

[Horu]

This is me hoping that the 191 BG is so difficult for you to manufacture that there is a plethora of blems to go around. If no-one has claimed the first spot in that line, consider this a dibs. Not that I think the price is unreasonable, it's just a little out of my range.

[iggyskier]

This is me hoping that the 191 BG is so difficult for you to manufacture that there is a plethora of blems to go around. If no-one has claimed the first spot in that line, consider this a dibs. Not that I think the price is unreasonable, it's just a little out of my range.

Horu - email rowen (rowen AT on3pskis.com) and he can add you to our blem list. You'll be in the first group of people to find out when we have blem pairs we want to sell.

[hiplainsdrifter]

Those wolfpack Viciks- wow, I am having heart palpitations.

[Horu]

Horu - email rowen (rowen AT on3pskis.com) and he can add you to our blem list. You'll be in the first group of people to find out when we have blem pairs we want to sell.

Muchisimas gracias

[ecskier7]

The pillow flights and the 191 billy goats look so sick! Next year I might have to have an on3p quiver.