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  1. #26
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    Ntn rocks, and there is room for improvment. Luca gasperini of whiteplanet has generated some interesting prototypes to be tested this spring and coming summer. Stay tuned.
    Last edited by verbier61; 04-17-2011 at 01:38 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by telesucks View Post
    hmmm...
    good feedback. I guess my biggest concern at this point is the free pivot range of motion.
    Is there anyone who has skied on other free pivot tele bindings, or even AT that could tell me about what % of the motion NTN has?
    The free pivot thing is tough to say re whether it will bother you. It tours way better than any non-free pivot binding, including 3 pins. But it doesn't tour as well as the other free pivot bindings. I tour often, but not super long days, and it works fine for me. But if you do long tours, or tour with people on dynafits that you're already struggling to keep up with, you might be unhappy.

    The cracked frames are a concern, but overall I am very happy with the system. One thing, however, that I didn't see mentioned in this thread is that some people make the transition seamlessly, and others have issues with it and spend days adjusting to NTN and dialing it in. NTN strongly favors a compact stance, so if you're the type that likes to have your feet wide apart, NTN may kick your ass.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gritter View Post
    . . .
    1) Weight - everyone moans about the weight of the binding, but the boots are generally a lot lighter than 75mm boots so you often end up with a lighter setup. . .
    Wherefrom do you get this? Garmont Prophet NTN is 1820 gr, Garmont Voodoo (which is exactly the same boot for 75) is 1828 gr! Considering that the laments about the weight essentially concern those who do a lot of randonee they probably would opt for a more randonee oriented boot like Kenai (1716 gr) or Ener-G (1690 gr - effectively not ideally rando oriented) Syner-G (1590 gr) i don't see where you're saving weight. Boh?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Ntn rocks, and there is room for improvment. Luca gasperini of planetmountain has generated some interesting prototypes to be tested this spring and coming summer. Stay tuned.
    Yep. But he's sponsored by them (and Scarpa) and has a lot of hassle to convince his friends (as for one, i only mention Falkiner!!! ) to use them . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    in milito'o i trust
    You're a faithful man :P
    Last edited by uli; 04-13-2011 at 03:48 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by uli View Post
    Wherefrom do you get this? Garmont Prophet NTN is 1820 gr, Garmont Voodoo (which is exactly the same boot for 75) is 1828 gr! Considering that the laments about the weight essentially concern those who do a lot of randonee they probably would opt for a more randonee oriented boot like Kenai (1716 gr) or Ener-G (1690 gr - effectively not ideally rando oriented) Syner-G (1590 gr) i don't see where you're saving weight. Boh?
    I'm referring to the Scarpa NTN boots. As I said, my TX Pro / NTN combo is lighter than my T1 O1 combo...

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gritter View Post
    I'm referring to the Scarpa NTN boots. As I said, my TX Pro / NTN combo is lighter than my T1 O1 combo...
    But as for the boots you're comparing apples and potatoes, sorry . . . Compareable boots in the same range for NTN and NN75 differ, if at all, only by several gr. I checked that as well for Scarpa (TXN and T2 Eco - the difference is only in the inner boot).

    I don't mind that there is people who like the NTN but you should reason with the right arguments. Otherwise i offer you my setup: Syner-G with superlight Palau innerboot (1480 gr) + Switchback (1300gr) Hardly you'll be able to beat that.

  7. #32
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    I'm becoming more and more interested in making the switch to ntn, I've been using hammerheads and axles with stiffy springs on position 5 and I'm still craving some more activity, but more than anything a significantly stiffer boot than the t-race. Would an NTN-Scarpa TX-Comp combo be more active and be even stiffer?

  8. #33
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    Uli, I only checked Scarpa boots via their website but for a single boot, size 27.0 the numbers are as follows -

    TX-comp: 1708g/boot
    T-Race: 1982g/boot

    TX-pro: 1670g/boot
    T-1: 1972g/boot

    TX: 1618g/boot
    T2eco:1570g/boot

    Aside from the TX/T2 class, the NTN boots are definitely lighter. Most of us fat 'Mericans with our fat skis and extremo attitudes prefer boots in the T1/TX-pro category or bigger anyways. Euro rando demands can be quite a bit different than ours here (as we discussed - ski crampons, etc...) so that, in addition to Falkiner's old-ness (with all due respect! ) may be why he and other Euro tourers are not so quick to change. That and it all depends on what type of skier you are. While you are happy touring on your lighter gear, I spent most of yesterday touring with 189 Pon2oons, NTN and TX-comp. 60 minutes per up, 60 seconds per down.

    Cliffhucker: The TX-comp is comparable to the T-race so you're not going to get much more there, but the NTN red springs at 2 are the most active setup I've ever used. If you crank them down you're going to have a pretty darn active setup that I doubt I could tele turn effectively on, however I can't compare directly to the HH at 5 since I've never skied them. Sorry.

    Verbier61: What sort of interesting prototypes?!?!?!?? Inquiring minds want to know.... and test.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  9. #34
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    Hop!

    You know my age, so . . .

    I understand pretty well your reasoning. There remain the issues ski-crampon, weight and reliability (especially in more than 1-day touring. I'll wait for some solution there . . . Anyway, since you know how i ski, at least a little bit, for sure you can "classify" that: My impression with the NTN was (trying with first generation of Scarpa boots and the 2nd of Crispi) that i wasn't skiing on the ball of the foot (with the inner leg) but on the point of the toes. That for sure, was also the result of the very hard bellows of the boots. When i retried, a year and a half later (at the freeride event at Gd-St-Bernard) with the Garmont boot, it was way way better (the only disadvantage: the Garmont boot, bowing the - inner - foot exercised a lot of pressure on the nails of the toes (the boot had the right size!). I shared this sensation with Christophe Geiser (an ex telemark worldcup racer and now alpine guide, UIAGM, in Thyon; he, like me, admired the edge control in pist). The general problem is a bit this: If you change you have to change the complete setup, you cannot change only boot or binding, step by step, keeping something you've experience with and which gives you a realistic criterion for the changes (and their reasons and dependencies).

    A sidenote for boots: Since in my racing past i had a lot of pain with the boots i'm somewhat experienced in boot fitting. And i think, even a softer boot you can greatly adapt with an excellently fitted - and more rigid - inner boot. For me, considering age, status of physical form etc., i opted for the very simple Syner-G but with a Palau innerboot with hard foam (for my feet the original inner boot would have been too large anyway) fitted with a personalized sole (by Schertenlaib in Martigny, that one who does the boot fitting for Defago) and the result is a boot, which is leightweight but performing like a Scarpa T-1 (not T-Race, that's for sure) but with a softer and more continuous bellow (i don't like the Scarpa bellows so much - but that's about personal tastes). And with this boots i'm skiing without any problem skis like the Drifter, for example (never really skied Pontoons ) or K2 Darkside - but this winter here, after christmas at least, was not really the one you used them so much.

  10. #35
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    Cliffhucker,

    the answer to your question regarding the binding depends on your weight and how you set the springs. I am 190 pounds and run red 2. I used HH 4 and Axl 2. Red 2 is way more active then HH 4 or Axl 2. I have not tried HH 5 but have a hard time believing it would more active then red 2

    I don't think the TX comp is near as high performance of a boot as the candy cane T-Race. It fits better the toe box but is not near as snug in the ankle or calf or as stiff. The T-Race is also taller.

    Bottom line I like the set up but already broke mine at around 35 days.They were replaced in around a week but I know other people who broke theirs also. I like the performance of the binding over HH but would prefer the T-Race for a boot.

    It also took me a several days to get used the the activity level in steep terrain and bumps. I have a tall stance but in the steeps if I got low the extra tip pressure would make the ski real twitchy.

    James

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by uli View Post
    a) Yep. But he's sponsored by them (and Scarpa) and has a lot of hassle to convince his friends (as for one, i only mention Falkiner!!! ) to use them . . .

    b) You're a faithful man :P

    a) he's no more sponsored
    b) I wrote in milito'o I trust in the summer of 2009, and since then have received the greatest dividend in italian soccer history, 'cuz none before won the triplete.
    I'm more grateful that faithful now :-)

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    Verbier61: What sort of interesting prototypes?!?!?!?? Inquiring minds want to know.... and test.
    just sent a mail to common friends asking them to send you a prototype boot

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    a) he's no more sponsored. . . .
    Because he didn't succeed in convincing his friends?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by uli View Post
    Because he didn't succeed in convincing his friends?
    I believe he wants to act as a free agent to sell his improved NTN version to anyone interested

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    I believe he wants to act as a free agent to sell his improved NTN version to anyone interested
    buzzing thread my friend here... as soon as the modified version will be released, maybe it'll be time about giving NTN a try...

  16. #41
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    The main reason I switched to NTN was I needed new tele boots. Seemed like a cool concept to have one pair for tele and Dynafit. Plus, I lost weight with TX Pros over Spirit 3/4s so it was a win for me.

    And then I skied on them. I really like them and I was coming off Bishops. I don't tour on tele's unless it's a local corn lap after our chairs close so not an issue there.

    I really like how they ski. I will say that I don't think there is that much of an advantage over Bishops purely in how they ski. But the other stuff makes them my favorite-almost a step in, brakes so the lifties don't hassle me about no leashes (yes, they do that here), tour mode on the off chance I want to take a quick side country lap, releasability (only have done it once but glad I did). Bishops have different springs and are easy to switch to different skis too.

  17. #42
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    Super happy with mine, and they were great while my season lasted. Got hurt in alpine gear...

    NTN is perfect for patrollers.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffhucker View Post
    I'm becoming more and more interested in making the switch to ntn, I've been using hammerheads and axles with stiffy springs on position 5 and I'm still craving some more activity, but more than anything a significantly stiffer boot than the t-race. Would an NTN-Scarpa TX-Comp combo be more active and be even stiffer?
    Hard to say, but from what I have read on TTips (JONG Q Public's opinion is different, obv), the short answer is no. Most things I have read state that HH5 and T-Race would be a burlier setup than what NTN could offer. I don't know if that is true, however. There are also people there who would say that using super stiff springs on 5 is a crutch, and real tele skiers would us a lower setting.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Hard to say, but from what I have read on TTips (JONG Q Public's opinion is different, obv), the short answer is no. Most things I have read state that HH5 and T-Race would be a burlier setup than what NTN could offer. I don't know if that is true, however. There are also people there who would say that using super stiff springs on 5 is a crutch, and real tele skiers would us a lower setting.
    I used to be that guy in the xtranormal video that had to have the stiffest springs yadda yadda yadda but after trying green (softer), blue (middle) , and red (stiffest) springs on NTN I decided that blue at 3, or basically the middle of the road, is perfect for me w/ TX pro and TX comp. If I'm stuck w/ red I dial them way back.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    I used to be that guy in the xtranormal video that had to have the stiffest springs yadda yadda yadda but after trying green (softer), blue (middle) , and red (stiffest) springs on NTN I decided that blue at 3, or basically the middle of the road, is perfect for me w/ TX pro and TX comp. If I'm stuck w/ red I dial them way back.
    That's because NTN power and control abilities don't rely on excessive heel retention.

  21. #46
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    Hop, in a few days your friends in boulder will have a gift for you :-)

  22. #47
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    I was skiing T1's and HH's on 4. I'm skiing TX Pros and blue tubes @3, and have had no real need for more activity. The biggest factor in that for me is the incredible lateral control you get. It allows me to run with a lighter preload, so I have a more "natural" ski feel. I don't need the same amount of preload to get the pressure I need for control. I transition smoother and quicker, but am able to engage the edges just as quickly.

    If you are comparing to T Races and HH's on 5, go with Comps and red tubes. I had bought red tubes expecting I would need them, but so far I'm very happy with the blues. I'll keep them just in case. Almost bought some Comps too, but they're "improving" them, so I'll wait.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  23. #48
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    heh... NTN: If you dont mind skiing on tippy-toes...

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    heh... NTN: If you dont mind skiing on tippy-toes...
    Weight that rear foot, son, and you won't experience tippy-toeing. And don't choose a too-stiff boot, thinking that you're strong enough to bend it.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    heh... NTN: If you dont mind skiing on tippy-toes...
    Guess you're doing it wrong.

    Honest question: Have you ever tried it? Are you tippy toe in your 75mm gear? What kind of gear are you on? Pretty misguided statement you're making in my opinion.

    NTN has helped me IMMENSELY in terms of rear foor control. NTN has actually helped me to do it RIGHT...or at least better than I had been.
    Gravity. It's the law.

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