Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Down the valley a bit further on the good side of the 49th
    Posts
    4,342

    Shames Mountain ads

    I assume others have seen this. I saw it briefly the other day but didn't get details and it was gone. Surprised Gary from Terrace hasn't posted or that the old thread hasn't resurfaced.

    So what do you think? The website still seems a tad light on details such as: Current corporate structure, finances and current costs of operation, what happens to the money if the bid does not succeed even if all the money is raised. Do you then own a share of a co-op that owns nothing. Seems a lot of the same questions unanswered? What does $299 actually get you.... the right to buy a season's pass for a lower rate, avoiding much higher 'initiation fees' down the road or are you on the hook as 'an owner' for all unforeseen capital or legal costs down the road. Links on the website to this info would be nice but I didn't see them.

    I'm sure someone from the group is monitoring here and can respond. At least since they spent ad dollars here I would hope so.
    It's not so much the model year, it's the high mileage or meterage to keep the youth of Canada happy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,896
    I hope they make it happen but the fundrasing is at 6% of their goal ,if everyone who was interersted has already contributed where is the rest gona come from?

    http://www.friendsofshames.ca/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Down the valley a bit further on the good side of the 49th
    Posts
    4,342
    I'm kind of hoping that if they answer some questions and get some more relevant info on their website maybe they can get more interest. $300 isn't much, in fact I suspect it's not enough to hit their goal but it's still too much to give when there is no indication of where it goes or who holds it or what rules apply to it now or when a co-op is actually formed. You know useless little details like that.
    It's not so much the model year, it's the high mileage or meterage to keep the youth of Canada happy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151

    Hi mags, here's the scoop

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    I'm kind of hoping that if they answer some questions and get some more relevant info on their website maybe they can get more interest. $300 isn't much, in fact I suspect it's not enough to hit their goal but it's still too much to give when there is no indication of where it goes or who holds it or what rules apply to it now or when a co-op is actually formed. You know useless little details like that.
    I was in yurp for over a month, came home to an insane workload at the office then whacked my hand for 6 stitches chopping f-ing wood, sorry I haven't posted for a while. I'm also going to keep this pretty short because typing with one hand sucks.

    The website www.mymountaincoop.ca should answer most questions, really.
    However:
    L7 - your money goes into trust, if we can't buy it you get your money back. That's it. As to who holds it - it goes into trust, the bank holds it. As to "what rules apply to it now or when a co-op is actually formed", I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Do you mean the constitution of the community service cooperative? The website describes the coop and how we're going to proceed.
    Your other comments:
    "Current corporate structure, finances and current costs of operation",
    It's dealt with in the feasibility study. What does it really matter what was done before? The place didn't make any money, but it didn't lose much either. You're spending $300, if it doesn't go you get your money back. So you want to read 50 pages of business plan and another 100 pages of feasibility study. OK, but we've spent going on a couple of years on this.
    "what happens to the money if the bid does not succeed even if all the money is raised".
    If we raise the money, we have succeeded and My Mountain Coop buys the hill and its assets.
    "Do you then own a share of a co-op that owns nothing".
    No you own a share in a coop that owns a ski area.
    "Seems a lot of the same questions unanswered? What does $299 actually get you"
    It gets you a share in the coop that owns the ski area. It also gets you some of the things written on the website. Like a vote, discounts on tickets and season passes, possibly a coupon book with deals from local shops....

    ".... the right to buy a season's pass for a lower rate"
    see above

    "avoiding much higher 'initiation fees' down the road"
    I don't know what you mean. If you are talking about the share cost being more if we are successful, yes that is possible. If the mountain takes off and is able to put profits back into lifts and other infrastructure, a share in 3 years may cost more than $299

    "or are you on the hook as 'an owner' for all unforeseen capital or legal costs down the road"
    No you're not on the hook. The business plan was done by professionals, the constitution was written by professionals, we did our due diligence and the feasibility study and business plans are solid.

    A final word to xxxer. I don't know what the number is now but we haven't even started canvassing local businesses (in Terrace, Kitimat and Prince Rupert. These are the people who have the most to lose if the hill closes. Attracting professionals to the area, having people come in from out of town (but within the region), spin-off, all will be really adversely effected if there is no Shames. We also haven't had the really large corporations step up yet, and we've got between $3 and $7B (that's billion) worth of projects on the books for the region in the foreseeable future so there are people around with some deep pockets. Don't count us out yet...


    ps - hey kind of cool, there's an ad for MMC next to the window I'm typing in... wonder if we paid for that...
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,896
    Quote Originally Posted by garyfromterrace View Post
    A final word to xxxer. I don't know what the number is now but we haven't even started canvassing local businesses (in Terrace, Kitimat and Prince Rupert. These are the people who have the most to lose if the hill closes. Attracting professionals to the area, having people come in from out of town (but within the region), spin-off, all will be really adversely effected if there is no Shames. We also haven't had the really large corporations step up yet, and we've got between $3 and $7B (that's billion) worth of projects on the books for the region in the foreseeable future so there are people around with some deep pockets. Don't count us out yet...


    :
    yeah I figure maybe some BIG contributor with deep pockets might come forth ,we are seeing lots of activity here with the electrification of hy 37 and mining about to boom ...if commodity prices stay firm

    This is the time of year when shames closes early that we see the folks from out west show up to ski and spend $ in town so if shames closed ... it would be good for smithers

    new snow today ,windup is on sunday but then they say 3 more days next week after windup ...wtf

    maybe we will see ya

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Down the valley a bit further on the good side of the 49th
    Posts
    4,342
    Quote Originally Posted by garyfromterrace View Post
    I was in yurp for over a month, came home to an insane workload at the office then whacked my hand for 6 stitches chopping f-ing wood, sorry I haven't posted for a while. I'm also going to keep this pretty short because typing with one hand sucks.
    I didn't realize you were directly involved I thought you were more of an interested/connected party. i didn't think you were obligated to answer I just figured you might be speaking up but didn't know about European axe swinging. Thanks for the reply and I'll clarify a couple of the questions I asked.

    I did find some of the info I wanted about what the share gets an 'owner'. It was on the site but not somewhere I expected it or I got sidetracked maybe. It would be interesting to post a link to BC's co-op regulations. I'm sure they're quite detailed and would answer a lot of the questions. The money going into trust is most of what I wanted to know and I suspect it is held by an appointed lawyer. Of course details of that should likely be posted on the website if they aren't already.

    My question regarding current corporate structure wasn't to do with the hill as run currently but more to do with 'mymountaincoop.ca'. I'm guessing the co-op is not yet incorporated so I was curious what situation exists there currently. OTOH if the co-op is formed what is the registered co-op # or whatever they do there to identify it. In Alberta the condominium act is very detailed about how a condo association is formed and the transition from developer to fully operated by a group of individual owners. I'm curious if BC co-op regs specify exactly what steps are taken to forming the actual co-op.

    My question about what happens if the 2mil is raised but the purchase of the hill does not proceed is in regards to what assurances the hill is available for that amount. Is there a purchase agreement or offer to sell at that price? What is to say the 2mil is raised and then the current owners ask for 2.5mil and the deal doesn't proceed until that new price is met. Or perhaps someone else steps in and buys it before the 'co-op' can actually close the deal. I'm not sure if the hill is currently privately owned or owned by a bank or receiver. Just wondering what is in place to avoid these scenarios.

    As far as avoiding higher initiation fees down the road I wonder if that sort of thing is covered in the co-op regs. MEC shares have been $5 forever so I wonder if that is dictated by regs. They also do some odd things in terms of profits being dumped into multiple share purchase that they claim are part of the rules governing co-ops. This is why I'm thinking the rules are very exact and detailed.

    I would be interested in seeing a link/copy to the constitution and business plan. I would think many might be if just to prove they exist and they were done by professionals. The last time this came up there was a lot of vague 'promises' so I'm just looking for some more concrete indicators of due diligence and such as I think many interested people may be.
    Last edited by L7; 04-08-2011 at 07:58 AM.
    It's not so much the model year, it's the high mileage or meterage to keep the youth of Canada happy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Juxtaposition
    Posts
    5,733
    Pity buying a couple of shares doesn't come with a Canadian residency visa for foreigners. My wife and I would [probably] live in terrace [despite the flooding, bears and salmon big enough to eat a man's dog whole].
    Life is not lift served.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Hohes View Post
    Pity buying a couple of shares doesn't come with a Canadian residency visa for foreigners. My wife and I would [probably] live in terrace [despite the flooding, bears and salmon big enough to eat a man's dog whole].
    yes and you would probably miss the nukes eh?

    1st time I went to terrace I got out of the truck and looked around at all the mountains and said out loud wow if this was colorado there would be movie stars in fox furs and shi-shi coffee bars but its terrace so theres a native standing over there wearing a starter jacket & sippn a double double from tim hortons

    the whole north west reminds me of the kootneys 25 yrs ago ,its not overcrowded,its not overpriced and its not the place to be ... yet

    lots of activity in town the anticipated hy37 powerline (no power north of kitwanga) will bring in the mining
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-08-2011 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151
    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    I didn't realize you were directly involved I thought you were more of an interested/connected party.
    I`ve been involved from the beginning and have volunteered about 1000hrs (including 843hrs posting on TGR).

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    I did find some of the info I wanted about what the share gets an 'owner'. It was on the site but not somewhere I expected it or I got sidetracked maybe. It would be interesting to post a link to BC's co-op regulations.
    http://www.coopscanada.coop/
    Coops are regulated federally not provincially. Hope the link works. We are forming a community service cooperative.

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    The money going into trust is most of what I wanted to know and I suspect it is held by an appointed lawyer.
    We have an MBA as one of the founding members on the steering committee and 2 CA`s. I trust that they know what they are doing. Trust us, we`re not ripping anyone off. The money is held in trust, whatever the hell that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    My question regarding current corporate structure wasn't to do with the hill as run currently but more to do with 'mymountaincoop.ca'. I'm guessing the co-op is not yet incorporated so I was curious what situation exists there currently. OTOH if the co-op is formed what is the registered co-op # or whatever they do there to identify it. I'm curious if BC co-op regs specify exactly what steps are taken to forming the actual co-op.
    My Mountain Coop will be formed in a couple of weeks. The gentleman helping write our constitution was a lawyer and one of the founding members of Mountain Equipment Coop. As I mentioned before coops are regulated federally. Take a look at the link I posted. I`m not going to type all the steps that we took, I have one hand right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    My question about what happens if the 2mil is raised but the purchase of the hill does not proceed is in regards to what assurances the hill is available for that amount. Is there a purchase agreement or offer to sell at that price? What is to say the 2mil is raised and then the current owners ask for 2.5mil and the deal doesn't proceed until that new price is met. Or perhaps someone else steps in and buys it before the 'co-op' can actually close the deal. I'm not sure if the hill is currently privately owned or owned by a bank or receiver. Just wondering what is in place to avoid these scenarios.
    There will be a purchase agreement shortly, however know one thing here - THE EXISTING OWNERS WANT TO SELL TO US. They want to keep it locally owned, and feel the coop model we`re proposing is the best model for the ski hill. This has been posted by me before. We met with them a couple of nights ago. They are fully and completely behind us. They are NOT going to jack the price up, the hill`s been for sale for at least 3 years officially. The price is NOT $2M, it`s $1.29M, we want to raise 2M so we have a cushion.

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    As far as avoiding higher initiation fees down the road I wonder if that sort of thing is covered in the co-op regs. This is why I'm thinking the rules are very exact and detailed.
    If we buy the hill and can improve it through improvements financed by increased skier visits and related revenue, the share price will go up. This isn`t an ``initiation fee`` it`s an ownership share in a ski hill.

    Quote Originally Posted by L7 View Post
    I would be interested in seeing a link/copy to the constitution and business plan. I would think many might be if just to prove they exist and they were done by professionals. The last time this came up there was a lot of vague 'promises' so I'm just looking for some more concrete indicators of due diligence and such as I think many interested people may be.
    http://friendsofshames.ca/index.php?...d=1&Itemid=117
    click on business plan
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Down the valley a bit further on the good side of the 49th
    Posts
    4,342
    Cool, that's the shit I was looking for.

    For the record MBA and CA are not terms that are interchangeable with honour or integrity for me. I've known plenty of both. Not to say your guys have no integrity or honour just saying the alphabet isn't what brings it to them. Think Bernie Madoff and half of Wall St.

    Point is this shit needs to be up front both to keep the alphabet boys honest (or prove they are) and to provide details to 'investors'. 1.29 vs 2mil is a big difference and helps make a lot more sense of a number of things.

    Really not trying to be a dick about it here just trying to bring some relevant points out for ANYONE thinking of throwing some money in. I appreciate your patience in replying.
    It's not so much the model year, it's the high mileage or meterage to keep the youth of Canada happy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151
    No sweat bro, thanks for your interest!
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151
    Figured this may be a good thread to resurrect for the fuck of it. Was trying to find the original thread I posted on Friends of Shames and stumbled on this one, so hey...

    Like to provide an update on the project that wasn't given a snow balls chance in hell and devoured a fair chunk of my time the last 10 years. We just completed our 6th year of operation as a community service ski cooperative. That in itself is remarkable, but the fact that we did it while operating at the biggest profit since our inception and while raising money for a new snowcat is miraculous. Other noteworthy points:
    - replaced all the grips (about 120 about $2,000 a pop) on the chair
    - replaced the chair cable (about $100K), T bar cable (about $25K)
    - numerous large lodge upgrades (new commercial kitchen, new floors, new upper deck)
    - numerous out building (cat shop, generator buildings) improvements and construction
    - 2 new to us snowcats (recent one worth about $300K)
    - right sizing the generators saving about $50K/year in diesel costs
    - numerous other enviro, cool, sexy projects I cannot talk about under fear of tight non-disclosure laws (Not, just can't think of all of them or too lazy to type more... you pick).

    And one of the things I'm most happy about is that we have about 1,400 coop members with almost 100 SIGNING ON IN THE LAST YEAR!

    So, we're doing pretty well. Our Board of Directors has had quite a bit of new blood coming in and old blood sticking around which has made for an excellent exchange of ideas and strong functioning leadership on a project where we were flying by the seat of our pants for much of the journey. Still are for that matter, but hey things appear to be going swimmingly.

    With that I hereby announce my resignation from the Board of My Mountain Coop (well to the TGR faithful anyway, all the other members found out at the last AGM - no scoop for you!). It has been one fuck of a ride. In my opinion, this board (TGR Forum) is quite complicit in the success of the My Mountain Coop. It was here that I got very public, vocal, defensive, obnoxious, reticent, and just all in all spent way, way, too much time on the keyboards. You know it may have made me so pissed at times that I dug in and wasn't going to let it fail. It allowed me to galvanize lots of opinions and let me know that there was lots of really solid folks who had never been to Shames, possibly may never get to Shames, but they were willing to fork over $300 (yep, the price ended up being $299) to help make an idea, a reality.

    Knowing there was that sort of unflinching generosity and like-mindedness made the work seem ok, and the time spent valuable. So after a year of fighting for something that didn't have a name, 3 years on the Board of Friends of Shames and another 5 years on the MMC BoD, I'm taking a little break.

    Hope you can ski at Shames some time. You'll like it.
    Peace.
    Last edited by garyfromterrace; 10-15-2017 at 04:51 PM.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    [a] Van [down by the river]
    Posts
    1,511
    Worthy bump for something I've been following for a while... yet still haven't made it up there. Feels like you will be missed Gary, you put in a hell of a lot of effort. Hats off to you sir.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151
    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    Worthy bump for something I've been following for a while... yet still haven't made it up there. Feels like you will be missed Gary, you put in a hell of a lot of effort. Hats off to you sir.
    Aw shit. Totally ulterior motive man, I just love skiing there.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    13,989
    Quote Originally Posted by garyfromterrace View Post
    Aw shit. Totally ulterior motive man, I just love skiing there.
    Thanks Gary. There were a lot of internet douchebags who said we wouldn't succeed and to them a lubeless double headed black mamba. And there were a lot more who wished success and goshdarn it Shames is doing just fine

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    5,151
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Thanks Gary. There were a lot of internet douchebags who said we wouldn't succeed and to them a lubeless double headed black mamba. And there were a lot more who wished success and goshdarn it Shames is doing just fine
    When you said "we" it should be mentioned sir, that you were one of the many large reasons that we did succeed. Our rag tag little original group had no fucking clue about non-profits, forming societies, governance, legal shit etc etc etc... Your up-front help was instrumental in allowing us to make a go of it. You were, and remain, one of our biggest boosters. Thank you Mr. Lau!
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •