$110/hr. + parts for car repair? Really?

[NorthernSpotted...]

I honestly believe that 1/2 the reason people hate mechanics is because they charge out the ass for labor and don't get the problem fixed.

Nah, it's because people don't like paying to keep something they already bought working. Say you pay $20K for a car and 3 years later it's worth $12K, but something breaks and you have to pay $1K keep it from becoming worthless. It's an $11K no-brainer to pay up but that doesn't make it sting any less. And who do you blame for that? If you own a Land Rover or Volkswagen, you blame the car. If you have a reasonably reliable car, you blame the person who charged you $1K.

Really, though, if you want to blame someone for astronomical repairs costs, blame the manufacturer. Cars are pretty complicated theses days so it takes that much more training and intelligence to become a skilled mechanic, which makes them more scarce, which increases their value. And I'm sure the whole "rising tide raises all boats" thing applies here too so when a dealership charges $110/hr for everything because, if necessary, they can fix your car's variable valve timing when it goes haywire, then your local grease monkey, who doesn't even know what that means, can charge $80/hr to change your brake pads and make it seem like a bargain.

[Blurred]

It's funny to see all you internet heroes calling him out for not doing it himself... I thought this place was full of dentists, not mechanics.

For aspiring internet heros, a light bulb goes out in your house and you call an electrician.

[sftc]

For aspiring internet heros, a light bulb goes out in your house and you call an electrician.

LAME

Totally not enough butthurt in that post, it feels flaccid and w/o the normal LOVE/HATE.

You fags are all getting soft and old.

GAMEFACE, I'm listing to Led Zep IV in my car right now. Your old man would be proud, just because I own a car.

[sftc]

Yahoo must be getting wicked smart, because this just popped up:

Who's Best For Your Car, Dealers or Independents?

When we moved back to the United States about 11 years ago, we bought a Saturn, which I faithfully took to the nearby dealer for every service checkup. Once it was out of warranty, I gradually shifted to an independent mechanic who was more convenient and seemed cheaper.

Then, about four years ago, we sold that car and bought a Mazda. This dealership was so far from our house that I never went there for the required checkups and relied instead on Jack, our local mechanic.

But, especially when the Mazda was under warranty, I had this nagging feeling that I was somehow in the wrong. Was my mechanic giving me the same kind of service as the dealer? Was he missing things? Was I doing my car a disservice by where I serviced it?


Vince Walsh, who runs Andy and Terry Automotive Specialists in Valley Stream, N.Y., said his business spends thousands on the sophisticated equipment required to repair newer cars. (Mark Ovaska for The New York Times)
Everything seemed to be running fine, but then I would hear stories like the one from a friend who had taken her car to the local mechanic instead of the dealer and he put in the wrong kind of oil. It was a costly mistake. She now goes to the dealer for all servicing.

So I decided to see what I could find out. First, I turned to the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence, which since 1972 has tested and certified repair and service professionals, including dealers and independent mechanics.

It turns out that I'm not alone in choosing not to go to my dealer, according to Tony Molla, a spokesman for the institute. Seventy percent of car owners go to the independents for what is known as "aftermarket" care while the cars are still under warranty.

That means they drive off the lot and rarely, if ever, return to the dealer.

So my first question is this: If something goes wrong when the car is under warranty, and all of us who abandoned our dealers have to return (tails between our legs) to the dealer, will our warranties be voided?

In most cases, no. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 -- which applies to all sorts of products, not just cars -- ensures that except in rare instances, a dealer must honor the warranty.

You do, however, need to be sure that nothing is done to the car that expressly voids the warranty. Some warranties, for instance, may prohibit specific cosmetic changes.

And you want to make sure to keep all service records so that if there is a problem with the car and you need to return to the dealer, you can prove it got regularly serviced.

Most important of all, read your owner's manual.

You should know when your car is still under warranty and what that warranty covers. Otherwise, if something goes wrong within three years after you bought your car -- which is the average time a car is covered in full -- and if your independent mechanic is unscrupulous or ignorant, you may end up paying a lot of money for something you would have gotten free at the dealer.

So how do you decide? Dealer or independent?

Not surprisingly, the answer to some extent depends on whom you ask.

"I'm a firm believer that you should return to the dealership," said Robert Atwood, management instructor for the National Automobile Dealers Association. "Parts are installed by rigorously trained technicians. Nobody knows the car better than these technicians."

Mr. Atwood acknowledged that dealers' initial labor costs were often higher than independents because of steeper overhead, but he argued that the dealers' greater expertise and state-of-the art equipment meant the repairs would go faster -- and in the end cost less.

He also noted that car dealerships had access to daily bulletins sharing information about fixing vehicles.

AutoMD.com, which is owned by U.S. Auto Parts Network, an auto parts supplier, collected data last year from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the Federal Highway Administration and the Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association. Car owners who went to dealers for repairs spent an average of $1,209 a year versus $903 for those who used independents.

These included common repairs jobs like brake work, transmission repairs and window replacements.

But Brian Hafer, vice president of AutoMD, said car owners should not look just at the labor costs but at the bottom line. Especially in newer model cars needing complex repairs, dealers will sometimes have more sophisticated diagnostic equipment than independents.

Also, Mr. Molla said, even if you've been regularly going to your independent mechanic, if you're nearing the end of your full-coverage warranty, you might want to go to the dealer to find out if anything is wrong. Then, it will be fixed free before your warranty expires.

But he says he doesn't think car owners should "assume the mechanic won't have the knowledge that the dealer has," he said. "It's possible the independent repair shop hasn't invested in the necessary equipment, but not necessarily true."

Customers, he said, should check if the repair shop has a blue seal of excellence -- about 400,000 mechanics nationwide do. That means they've passed certain exams and have to be recertified periodically. Consumers can find mechanics that are blue seal-certified through the Automotive Service Excellence Web site, www.ase.com.

Vince Walsh's shop, Andy and Terry Automotive Specialists in Valley Stream, N.Y., displays the blue seal. He acknowledged that as cars became increasingly computerized, the equipment to diagnose and repair them was also becoming more expensive.

"I spend an average of $15,000 to $20,000 a year on hardware and software," Mr. Walsh said. "It constantly needs to be updated."

Whether you choose a dealer or independent, there are ways to try to get the best deal possible. First of all, become informed. Call a few shops, including your dealer and other mechanics, to check prices.

Mr. Hafer suggests going to his or other Web sites to try to diagnose the problem and compare repair costs so you aren't reduced, as many of us often are, to simply saying, "The car sounds funny."

Also, don't be afraid to negotiate.

Mr. Hafer said representatives from his company called 600 dealers and independents for a price quote for a specific repair. When they called back a few weeks later and told the repair shops that had found a place that offered a lower price, two-thirds of the shops discounted the cost by an average of 14 percent.

And realize that sometimes car-related items are just going to be expensive even when they seem as if they shouldn't be.

We recently lost one of the two keys to our car. It turned out that we would have to pay $120 to get a key we could use to manually open the door and turn on the ignition -- and we would have to wait two hours at the dealership for it. And it would be $80 more to get the remote programmed as well.

I thought this was outrageous. So I called around. Other locksmiths could make the key, but it would be no cheaper, because they have to purchase the same expensive software to program the key.

So here's my tip to you: Make a third key when you first buy the car. That's because, for security reasons, it's generally easier and cheaper to make a copy when you have the two originals.

Fortunately, we lucked out this time. Once the snow started melting, we found the key right where one of us -- I won't say who -- had dropped it near the car. And it worked fine.

[hitek79]

Nice try.... MECHANIC.

Seriously though - other jobs don't require rent, utils and equipment?

I honestly believe that 1/2 the reason people hate mechanics is because they charge out the ass for labor and don't get the problem fixed.

Of course. And their markup is just as high on a percentage basis, you just don't realize it.

[advres]

GAMEFACE, I'm listing to Led Zep IV in my car right now. Your old man would be proud, just because I own a car.

Was this supposed to be a reference to Fast Times at Ridgemont High? His old man was a television repairman.

And no thanks. I live in the city and would rather not have a car payment, insurance payment and a $200 parking space or risk getting tickets. That's easily $700 before gas I save a month or $8400 a year, again, before gas. Zipcar works just fine when I absolutely can't use public transportation or my own power.

Edit to add I also don't have unexpected car bills. But I do understand people need vehicles for getting places when they have a family, live in more rural areas and whatnot. I'll change my tune when that time comes. But I'll be able to buy a wicked sick car with all the money I saved

[legallyillegal]

you mean you don't invest in the bank of Hookers & Blow?

[gravitylover]

$110/hr is cheap for a dealership around here. My Volvo dealer is up to $145/hr and the Subie dealer where we got the wifes car is $140/hr. There also aren't any local indy shops that will let me bring my own parts in anymore, other than oil if I want to use something they don't stock (like full syn.) I used to do almost all my own work and it's getting back to that unless it's something I just don't have the equipment for. I've been putting up with marginal front brakes since New Years because it's just been too cold/snowy/icy to put the car on a jack and do it in my (not flat) driveway. Parts are $180 but the dealer wants $470 for the job and nobody else will let me bring the parts in, they all quoted me between $275-350 just for parts.

[XXX-er]

fuck thats nothing I used to charge > 200$ an hr 2 hr minimum and now I don't need to work ,so the rest of you only charge 25$ ...fuck no wonder you are pissing and moaning on the interent

[Pegleg]

I don't know much about mechanics specifically, but given the amount of overhead involved in running a full-service repair shop - salaries (which are higher for experienced mechanics), insurance, tools, equipment (including some major stuff like lifts), maintenance of inventory (to avoid that 'it'll be two weeks to order the part' issue), rent or mortgage on a specialized property, etc., $110/hr seems pretty reasonable to me. A guy working out of a cheap location without all the specialized equipment, inventory, etc. can charge much less and is probably fine for basic repairs, but isn't going to be able to do everything properly the way a fully-equipped shop could. For instance, there are a bunch of shops in town here that can do alignments, but after poking around a bit it turns out that only two of them have the gear to do a full suspension shakedown in the process (which I wanted, as it was part of buying a used car and I wanted some assurance there weren't other issues apart from the alignment). But that's not a piece of info that the other shops tell you when they're quoting a price. So sometimes, anyway, you get what you pay for.