Snow for the Euros.

[comish]

Just some quick advise. While Munich isnt far from Engelberg distance wise, it is a rather long drive (not much Autobahn), by Euro standards, definitely more than 4hrs, can also have lots of traffic... Try to get to Zürich if possible, Basel is also quite close, Bern (probably 2.5hrs) and even Geneva (3 hrs?) are a significantly shorter drive from Eberg than Munich and atleast Basel and Bern should have direct flights from Berlin.
While this will obviously not be bookable on miles, im pretty sure easyjet flies from Berlin Schönefeld (SXF) to Zürich and Basel (rather close to Eberg [1.5h] and other parts of the Swiss Alps).

Yeah, done a lot of that drive through Allgau a bunch as Mrs. Comish's cousins live around that side. Your right, not the easiest drive. Did it in freezing rain one time that sucked!

EasyJet doesn't fly anywhere direct to the northern Alps from Berlin. Tried that angle, but good idea.

What would need to be open in Eberg to make it worth it?

[AmmergauerTele]

I would stay wherever is cheaper. Oburgurgl / Hochgurgl will be quite sleepy then, but sometimes sleepy is good. Walking around the village, getting a bite, have a few wiesbiers or ten. Solden will be a bit more active but I wouldn't think apres in the end of Nov will be going too much yet.

Man I am jealous. Can't wait to retire and get the Tyrol Top Snow Card and do a winter over there again with my wife - 80+ resorts on one pass for Tyrol, sick! Can't wait to see the TR. At Obergurgl eat here for lunch:
https://www.obergurgl.com/hohe-mut-alm-en

My kids still remember the chocolate crepes. And for the big kids can never go wrong with a groestl and a few beers.

[AmmergauerTele]

Do some top to bottom runs on the Hochgurgl side - I think around 5k of vertical or just under. Super long run and a blast - bring backpack and fill with thermos of hot tea / hot chocolate and Manner or I can't remember the other chocolate bar for bribes in the long gondola ride back up.

[Cosmic Suncloud]

i remember asking a local Gurgl-er what Gurgl meant. she said "high," so i asked what what Hochgurgl meant and she replied "high high." she then explained Obergurgl meant "high high high." i think i was lost in translation. regardless, the skiing and terrain was fun, the scene low-key. got my first look at the Dolomiti from the top of Hochgugl, and like a miller to the light was drawn into many future gambols and misadventures.

[AmmergauerTele]

Couldn't resist the trip to memory lane. You will like it at Obergurgl / Hochgurgl. Opening weekend mid-Nov 2013 with my then 10 yr old.

[comish]

Sweet picts! He looks like he is ripping!

Spent 1 day at Obergurgl and remember it being quite small, which has me intrigued to check out Solden. We shall see. Praying for more snow!

Just remembered there was the remains of an avi that killed 4 people just before we were there, 20 meters to the side of the piste. Sobering reminder of the differences between the Alps and the US.

[freak]

EasyJet doesn't fly anywhere direct to the northern Alps from Berlin. Tried that angle, but good idea.

as i said, the fly direct from berlin to basel and zürich...

What would need to be open in Eberg to make it worth it?

for skiing powder it should have enough snow to get down to trübsee. for groomers with the family, you probably want more lifts and groomer to be open (jochpass).

regarding sölden/obergurgl, obergurgl definitely offers more in regard of skiing groomers and is bigger than sölden (at least if you count hochgurgl AND Obergurgl, they are connected...).

[subtle plague]

Yeah with a Family obergurgle it is. I just saw the date of your holiday week and the 18th is the day in Engelberg. Coming from the states getting Steinberg untracked would be "fun". But for a whole week. Not so much. Everything will be tracked by 11 on the 18th

[Toby]

Spent 1 day at Obergurgl and remember it being quite small, which has me intrigued to check out Solden. We shall see. Praying for more snow!

I spent three weeks there back in the 90s. That's where the Bundessportheim was/is and they conducted Tirol Landeslehrer courses. The area might be small on the map, but the off-piste is big. You need visibility though. I'd hate to get stuck in a white-out.

[DB]

Always thought Sölden was much bigger than Obergurgl & Hochgurgl, Bergfex says Sölden 146 km v 110 km Obergurl / Hochgurgl.
Early Season Sölden is pretty empty in the centre whereas Obergurgl has a few small Apre Ski places that don't need masses of people to fill. Obergurgl also has a good village atmosphere rather than a main Apre Ski street with strip bars etc. Obergurgl better with a family, Sölden better for a lad's trip.

https://www.bergfex.at/soelden/

https://www.bergfex.at/obergurgl-hochgurgl/

[rod9301]

Sweet picts! He looks like he is ripping!

Spent 1 day at Obergurgl and remember it being quite small, which has me intrigued to check out Solden. We shall see. Praying for more snow!

Just remembered there was the remains of an avi that killed 4 people just before we were there, 20 meters to the side of the piste. Sobering reminder of the differences between the Alps and the US.

People die in inbounds avalanches in the us too.

I remember a couple of deaths at squaw, caught in avalanches.

And squaw's Maritime snowpack is a lot safer than Colorado or the Alps.

Not sure how the Alps got this reputation:" if you want to ski off piste, you need a guide."

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[DB]

Not sure how the Alps got this reputation:" if you want to ski off piste, you need a guide."

It used to be that in Europe only the prepared pistes were avi controlled. Offpiste (non groomed areas) were not generally avi controlled if they did not present a risk to a piste.

Seems now a lot more people ski offpiste and many european resorts offer ski routes (unprepared avi controlled areas). Having said that there are a lot of areas where it's best to go with a guide unless you know the area well (e.g. deep backcountry, hut to hut ski tours, glacier territory etc).

So yes now there are many more areas in Europe you can ski offpiste without a guide but just because there isn't a sign up warning of the dangers it doesn't mean that a particular area of European offpiste is avi controlled or safe.

[LeoK]

But also "not avi controlled" does not mean you need a guide. With proper education and a behavior that suits the conditions and your experience you can also venture into the backcountry without a guide. But there still is no inbounds. But yes: there are many more off piste runs that are avi controlled. But e.g. the famous Steinberg is not at all considered inbounds even if surrounded by pistes.

[comish]

But also "not avi controlled" does not mean you need a guide. With proper education and a behavior that suits the conditions and your experience you can also venture into the backcountry without a guide. But there still is no inbounds. But yes: there are many more off piste runs that are avi controlled. But e.g. the famous Steinberg is not at all considered inbounds even if surrounded by pistes.

^^^This.

Never said anything about a guide, just have to have a clue about backcountry or OB travel... You can't just go "rage" anywhere you want without thinking about it. Was a valley over from Solden when the 2 US Ski Team guys died. Super sad, but unfortunately that snow pack was awful.

Red, Do you ski Squaw with your beacon every day? It is different in the Alps. Not saying it can't happen in the US, but way way way less frequent.

Thanks all for the beta on Solden v Obergurgl. Psyched its snowing again there!

[rod9301]

^^^This.

Never said anything about a guide, just have to have a clue about backcountry or OB travel... You can't just go "rage" anywhere you want without thinking about it. Was a valley over from Solden when the 2 US Ski Team guys died. Super sad, but unfortunately that snow pack was awful.

Red, Do you ski Squaw with your beacon every day? It is different in the Alps. Not saying it can't happen in the US, but way way way less frequent.

Thanks all for the beta on Solden v Obergurgl. Psyched its snowing again there!

Of course it's different in the Alps, Continental snow pack vs Maritime in the Sierras.

Much higher avalanche danger.

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[comish]

Also, A LOT fewer bombs thrown.

There assume it hasn't been bombed if you are off the piste/groomer. US in bounds, the assumption is it has been bombed/ski cut everywhere. Big difference.

[FrootBooter]

Also, A LOT fewer bombs thrown.

There assume it hasn't been bombed if you are off the piste/groomer. US in bounds, the assumption is it has been bombed/ski cut everywhere. Big difference.

Hmm, In Europe, all pistes must be secured before they can be opened. This means during avalanche danger, any avalanche prone slope that could run onto a piste must be secured in some way. If avalanche conditions warrant they are controlled.

In addition to pistes, there are 'high mountain itineraires'. Itineraires are not prepared pistes(not groomed), but marked ways through natural mountain terrain which have been secured from known risks if you stay within the stated distance of the markers. It is suggested that skiers retain a guide when skiing itineraires. Itineraires may be open or closed. If closed, it may be for any number of risks, including avalanche danger. To know why one is closed you would have to ask patrol. If an itineraire is open, any slope that can avalanche onto the marked itineraire has been deemed secure, through avalanche control measures if the conditions warrant. An itineraire being closed does not mean it is illegal to go there. It means you, or another responsible party, assume responsibility for all of the risks, as the resort has not deemed it secure

Though I do not know the particular details of itineraire management between Switzerland, Austria, Italy and France they are at least similar. The terrain accessed with the Aiguille du Midi tram is quite unique and in a league of its own. I am sure the management is as unique.

Avalanche control and how it affects the day feels very similar between Europe and the US, what with closed lifts/opening times etc. The real difference is the way boundaries are managed.

[comish]

Hmm, In Europe, all pistes must be secured before they can be opened. This means during avalanche danger, any avalanche prone slope that could run onto a piste must be secured in some way. If avalanche conditions warrant they are controlled.

In addition to pistes, there are 'high mountain itineraires'. Itineraires are not prepared pistes(not groomed), but marked ways through natural mountain terrain which have been secured from known risks if you stay within the stated distance of the markers. It is suggested that skiers retain a guide when skiing itineraires. Itineraires may be open or closed. If closed, it may be for any number of risks, including avalanche danger. To know why one is closed you would have to ask patrol. If an itineraire is open, any slope that can avalanche onto the marked itineraire has been deemed secure, through avalanche control measures if the conditions warrant. An itineraire being closed does not mean it is illegal to go there. It means you, or another responsible party, assume responsibility for all of the risks, as the resort has not deemed it secure

Though I do not know the particular details of itineraire management between Switzerland, Austria, Italy and France they are at least similar. The terrain accessed with the Aiguille du Midi tram is quite unique and in a league of its own. I am sure the management is as unique.

Avalanche control and how it affects the day feels very similar between Europe and the US, what with closed lifts/opening times etc. The real difference is the way boundaries are managed.

Don't disagree with the above. The difference is the amount of terrain that is just to the side of a piste or itinerary that wouldn't slide onto the piste or itinerary. That terrain is massive in many resorts in the Alps and might or might not be controlled, but you basically have to approach it with the assumption that it hasn't been controlled. In the US all that terrain between pistes or chairs within the boundary has been controlled. They throw a lot of bombs to control those large bowls.

Let's get back to discussing how much snow is falling in the Alps now. Looking pretty white in much of Austria from what I can see on webcams, although doesn't seem like too much in Solden / Obergurgl based on the automatic sites.

[Benny Profane]

Hey, a question for the Euros. I'm in northern Italy now, and just want to drive up into the Sella Ronde area to check things out, staying overnight in Arabba. Is that feasible right now in a shitty little Fiat rental? If another storm rolls in, I'm not doing it until it clears.

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[plugboots]

By law you will need chains or snow tires

[IridePow]

Laub, Engelberg
1 person died in avalanche

German only:
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panoram...story/26131319

Season is still young..... many more powder days to come.
Slow it down and stay safe.

[DB]

Laub, Engelberg
1 person died in avalanche

German only:
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panoram...story/26131319

Season is still young..... many more powder days to come.
Slow it down and stay safe.

Translation of salient points -
Happened at 12:55 today ( Tuesday 14.11 ), a loud bang was heard.
Avi level 3 (Considerable). Out of bounds slab avalanche.
4 in the group, 1 snowboarder caught in the avalanche. Other 3 located and dug him out, burial depth 1m.
Sadly they tried to reanimate the 32 year old without success and he was pronounced dead at the scene.
In the last line the local tourist office recommends the slope should be skied with a guide or ski instructor and skiers/boarders should inform themselves about the weather and avanche risks.

[vendul]

I have to make a big big decision. I'm ready to move and spottet a perfect house and Business in two very different Euro Location: Sedrun in Switzerland and Bad Gastein in Austria.... which would you choose?

[patxi]

I have to make a big big decision. I'm ready to move and spottet a perfect house and Business in two very different Euro Location: Sedrun in Switzerland and Bad Gastein in Austria.... which would you choose?

I haven't been to Bad Gastein but have spent some time in the general area. In my circumstances, I would choose Bad Gastein over Sedrun mainly due to practical and family reasons. Sedrun is just a bit too remote for me to live there full time. Great skiing nearby though: Disentis and Andermatt.

If the business is in any way related to tourism, I would think that Bad Gastein would be the safer bet. If they would have put a Sedrun stop on the Gotthard Base Tunnel, Sedrun could have been a strong contender.

[vendul]

I haven't been to Bad Gastein but have spent some time in the general area. In my circumstances, I would choose Bad Gastein over Sedrun mainly due to practical and family reasons. Sedrun is just a bit too remote for me to live there full time. Great skiing nearby though: Disentis and Andermatt.

If the business is in any way related to tourism, I would think that Bad Gastein would be the safer bet. If they would have put a Sedrun stop on the Gotthard Base Tunnel, Sedrun could have been a strong contender.

It really is a tough choice, 'cause next year Sedrun will be connected to Andermatt and Disentis is next