Snow for the Euros.

[Toby]

Interesting that she deployed an airbag and it didn't keep her above the surface.

[Incompetent Boob]

Interesting that she deployed an airbag and it didn't keep her above the surface.

Yes, something for everyone to keep in mind - just because I'm wearing an airbag, doesn't mean I can ignore the risk.
Sad that it takes an event like this as a reminder.

[ulty_guy]

RIP. be safe out there all, it's going to be dodgy for a little while yet I think. If you're using any of your any kit outside of your brain, you've messed up.

[Ripzalot]

RIP. anyone got a map with col de la mouche marked? would like to know for future reference.

[Mulletizer]

If you take a high traverse skier's-right across Tortin and hop over the ridge into the next drainage, that's Col des Mouches. Between Tortin and the exit from Paradise bowl / Gentianes-Tortin on the other side. You can also drop down onto it from the ridge above, accessed from Mont Gelé.

This slide was on the ridge, just below the main entry (which has been pretty wind exposed recently) but the whole slope can be very nasty because it has a smooth rock ground surface that snow often doesn't bond well to.

This whole situation is so sad. And needless.

[Mulletizer]

RIP. be safe out there all, it's going to be dodgy for a little while yet I think. If you're using any of your any kit outside of your brain, you've messed up.

Word. I saw plenty of evidence of facets developing in the snowpack on most aspects yesterday (everything except S) so it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Also some small slides that went really deep in places you wouldn't expect that kind of activity (eg a 5m x 5m slab that was 1m deep under the Chassoure lift on lac des Vaux).

[blondin]

I saw a dog search going on there today. Never a good sign. Very sad news.

And yes, I completely agree with v61 about it being a bad place to go so soon after several days of snow and wind.

The worst thing was seeing the number of people still skiing above, below and either side of that slide afterwards, as well as on/around numerous others slides that had ripped naturally and human-triggered elsewhere on ridgelines and high traverses around the mountain. Seriously frustrating; I just wonder if some people are plain ignorant, stupid or just decide to be blind to what's going on around them because they want to ski some powder.

sad news indeed.
come on folks lets wake up
I can't imagine skiing there with this quantity of snow/conditions right now, let alone have people skiing right past an accident.
This is tragic behavior - wearing an airbag isn't going to help change it either
RIP

[Cosmic Suncloud]

that one on the Laub looked intense. 11 caught, 2 injured?

[verbier61]

Yes, something for everyone to keep in mind - just because I'm wearing an airbag, doesn't mean I can ignore the risk.
Sad that it takes an event like this as a reminder.

Is that somewhere public? Interested to read it if so.

Facebook comment on the slide of two weeks ago btw creblet and mines.....

[Scottish_Skier]

Horrible outcome - Tragic...

a map with col de la mouche marked? would like to know for future reference.

The open bowl to skiers right of the Chassoure -> Tortin intinerary.

It is locally well known to be one of the most avalanche prone areas in Verbier.
However it is also normally an easy off piste route and close to the ski lift....

Sadly I can easily imagine how some young skiers with a little too much enthusiasm could end up there. Knowing Verbier there will have been tracks literally everywhere not long after the lift opened and skiers (wrongly) assume it is safe....

2 simple observations.

1) There is no such thing as 'sidecountry'. Col du mouche is only 200m from the ski lift / marked piste.

2) Another incident where air bag did not work. The 97% survival figure quoted by ABS on front page is clearly morally wrong.

[Marius]

2) Another incident where air bag did not work. The 97% survival figure quoted by ABS on front page is clearly morally wrong.

i really dislike the ABS-marketing pretty much. unfortunately Mammut/Snowpulse is turning intothis shitty marketing as well.
to make it clear: there is until now not a single scientific indication that those airbags work against burrial.
(they might get you more on top of a debris, but there still are no valid (!) datas out there)

afaik the mortal rate when triggering an avalanche is something like 5-7% for dying out of a trauma. so, and after finishing a ohd in maths, it just isnt possible that those airbags might have this 97% survival rate after this datas they wanted customers to believe it is!
@ripz: check those freeride-maps http://www.freeride-map.com/landingpage.php

[Ripzalot]

2) Another incident where air bag did not work. The 97% survival figure quoted by ABS on front page is clearly morally wrong.

is the 97% rate a measurement of actual avy incidents or simply tests?

in this case, do we know what type of airbag? trauma or suffocation? time buried?

is it to early to ask these questions?

[Scottish_Skier]

^ according to SLF estimates only approx 10% of people in an avalanche are actually buried (though this figue is almost impossible to verify as most incidents go unreported unless rescue services are called).

so basically the ABS "97% who pulled their trigger survived" rate is impossible to calibrate - as many of those skiers may have stayed on the surface anyway.

apologies for making what feels like inapropriate timed comment(s).... I think we have all made dubious decisions looking for powder at some point - but hopefully been "luckier".

[maloik]

I just got my own ABS and I remember reading something in the booklet that made me go "oooooh, so THAT's how they calculate the 97%". I think it was "in cases where trauma wasn't the cause of death" or something similar...

In any case, good reminder indeed. I'm going to have to keep readin my avalanche book, and hope my buddies are as serious and cautious as I (think I) am...

RIP

[Toby]

One in St. Anton also:

http://lawinenwarndienst.blogspot.co...all-im_20.html

Crazy circumstances.

[JRainey]

Edit: Toby posted

[Marius]

is the 97% rate a measurement of actual avy incidents or simply tests?

they got this number from reports with pulled ABS-airbags (only the ABS-system). they count it through their shops and reports from clients. BUT it is a fake number anyway! As an ABS-consumer you get a new cartridge for free when you make a report (otherwise you have to pay for them). So it is easy to get more positive numbers with this little bonus-system...

so, nobody knows if this systems might help you or not. it makes sense, that it might help (especially with reducing the burial depth and rescue time), but nobody knows atm.
the problem is not the product. if someone has 500bcks to share, buy one. what pisses me off is their marketing (especially ABS).

[ulty_guy]

Severe danger in the France over the next 24 hours...
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/commen...lert-for-alps/ (cheers to Davidof)

[Incompetent Boob]

Snowing hard in Nendaz right now and has been most of the afternoon.
Snow-line has been dropping, so now seeing some accumulation here.

[geo039]

Is this from last week? (Dated Dec 14th)...may still apply from tomorrow.

Severe danger in the France over the next 24 hours...
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/commen...lert-for-alps/ (cheers to Davidof)

[Hicks]

One in St. Anton also:

http://lawinenwarndienst.blogspot.co...all-im_20.html

Crazy circumstances.

The circumstances yes but that area is also hit frequently by skiers, whether being safe or not. Would not consider skiing Törli after such snowfalls as of recent though.

[Hugh Conway]

The circumstances yes but that area is also hit frequently by skiers, whether being safe or not. Would not consider skiing Törli after such snowfalls as of recent though.

The group not noticing he was missing is weird, but if it's where I'm thinking (this is the upper end of the big drainage behind Kappl that if you follow it all the way down ends up behind the barn, right?) there are a number of terrain traps where it'd be easy to pile up snow.

[Tectonically_Neglected]

We lost another WePowder buddy on the 8th of dec. Looks like a possible NARSID. Guy didn't like the look of a slope and wanted to ski around. Subsequently fell headfirst into a (snow)creek or something.

Didn't know Sebas personally but he was active in our part of EU.

Shitty starter to the season. And I'm seeing waaaaay too many accident reports.

Be careful out there everyone. Powder is great but not worth everything.

Dare to say no and use your head.

[gergberg]

i really dislike the ABS-marketing pretty much. unfortunately Mammut/Snowpulse is turning intothis shitty marketing as well.
to make it clear: there is until now not a single scientific indication that those airbags work against burrial.
(they might get you more on top of a debris, but there still are no valid (!) datas out there)

afaik the mortal rate when triggering an avalanche is something like 5-7% for dying out of a trauma. so, and after finishing a ohd in maths, it just isnt possible that those airbags might have this 97% survival rate after this datas they wanted customers to believe it is!
@ripz: check those freeride-maps http://www.freeride-map.com/landingpage.php

While I agree with you on the misleading/wrong statistics of the marketing departments, there ARE scientific data out there. E.g., the newest independent(?) study that I know of: Instead of using reported/estimated avalanche data, several avalanches were triggered and burial depth/trauma data were analyzed for dummies equipped with acceleration sensors and with or without airbag systems:

http://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-scie...12-756-763.pdf
(Hope the link works, might take a few seconds to load and quite a bit longer to read through).

Just saying, there is valid evidence for the usefulness of these airbag systems (which has not convinced me either, so far, to buy any of them). On the other hand, what the marketing departments make them to be is really annoying and probably also dangerous for not-so-inquiring users.

[patxi]

that one on the Laub looked intense. 11 caught, 2 injured?

They kicked off another one at the same location on the Wednesday following the above slide. Thankfully nobody was caught. Note to anybody skiing the Laub for the first time: just because you see hundreds of tracks on the skiers left, doesn't mean that you don't have to be smart. Even if you traverse left halfway down the Laub, you still have 500 meters of sketchy snowpack above you that someone will drop into with no concern for others below. Skiers right for me on the Laub until the snowpack is stable.

Also, for anyone heading to Engelberg, it is still too early to ski the Galtiberg. Don't drop in if you see tracks as they are probably from speedflyers. You've got a long way to hike back up when you get cliffed out. On the same day as the big slide on the Laub, There were 3 big crowns at the top of the Galtiberg (i.e. just to the left of the T-bar on the glacier). I was skiing the Klostermatte with my daughter and noticed that it was cloudy in the valley down by the Fuerenalp on a bluebird day. That's when I looked up and saw the crowns and realized it was a powder cloud at the bottom of the Galti (2000 meters below the crown).