Snow for the Euros.

[plugboots]

^^^ Great advice. Pick a place that you just want to be in so that if the weather turns horrible, you still have things to do and you enjoy being there.


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[Toadman]

Zermatt is another option. It's a bit spendy though. The crowds start showing up on December 26th.

[bobinch]

Zermatt is another option. It's a bit spendy though. The crowds start showing up on December 26th.

Zermatt is stunning with the bonus of Italian food across the hill... But the off piste needs a lot of snow.

I’m biased but don’t think you can go wrong with Verbier. It’s usually open weekends from early November and we’re skiing off piste soon after. Even in a bad snow year they do miracles with the pistes! And if the snow’s good the off piste is vast and mind blowingly good. NYE in the square is also a highlight. Will be busy after Xmas though so don’t even think about last minute accommodation.

[hafjell]

Zermatt is stunning with the bonus of Italian food across the hill... But the off piste needs a lot of snow.

I’m biased but don’t think you can go wrong with Verbier. It’s usually open weekends from early November and we’re skiing off piste soon after. Even in a bad snow year they do miracles with the pistes! And if the snow’s good the off piste is vast and mind blowingly good. NYE in the square is also a highlight. Will be busy after Xmas though so don’t even think about last minute accommodation.

This is a pretty solid rec. for Verbier. Although you could list dozens of resorts that do miraculous work with snow making.
No matter where you go, if you like skiing alone, make sure you schedule time on snow on the 25th and 26th. Went with family two Christmases ago and had to justify my skiing Christmas morning. The queues on the 27th...

[bobinch]

This year was special but here’s the boss opening Mont Gele on 23rd Dec
https://instagram.com/p/BdDmcX2B1xf/

[Rossymcg]

I'll be in Val d'isere for Xmas with my family. The reasons, EK has 2 glaciers in the area. high altitude vast amount of on and off piste skiing, good restaurants shops etc, I like the village of val d'isere it's classy but you can find plenty of apres ski if that's your thing.

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[beer30]

quick beta on Kleinwalsertal?

[powderfanatic]

Thanks guys. Strong support for Verbier and Val D'isere. Trying to weigh options on where to stay in Verbier. Any votes pro/con for Le Chable. Seems like a good way to avoid the lines in Medran and if IT IS snowing, Brusoon is right there...on the downside, evenings with a commute to Verbier could be annoying....but late nights are not what we are looking for so...

[bobinch]

Thanks guys. Strong support for Verbier and Val D'isere. Trying to weigh options on where to stay in Verbier. Any votes pro/con for Le Chable. Seems like a good way to avoid the lines in Medran and if IT IS snowing, Brusoon is right there...on the downside, evenings with a commute to Verbier could be annoying....but late nights are not what we are looking for so...

Not stayed down there but friends with apartments there are very complimentary. The gondola down runs until 19:00 and there are buses hourlyish until 00:30 if you fancy a night out. Le Châble has its own scene with some popular bars and restaurants - many of the seasonaires live there. If you’re close to the gondola the mountain access is as easy as many locations in Verbier and, as you say, perfect for Bruson on a bad weather day.

[hafjell]

I'll be in Val d'isere for Xmas with my family. The reasons, EK has 2 glaciers in the area. high altitude vast amount of on and off piste skiing, good restaurants shops etc, I like the village of val d'isere it's classy but you can find plenty of apres ski if that's your thing.

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How’s the culture / vibe in EK? I’ve heard the architecture is 60s and 70s instant village gross? Lots of drunk Brits?
Actually, how would you compare the towns of Verbier and Val d’Isère?


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[peds]

^^ Some parts of Val d'Isere (the more expensive parts) are much prettier than Tignes, which is mostly stark Soviet architecture. It's a fine line, but there are marginally more posh birds in Val d'Isere than Tignes, very similar to Verbier.
My memories of the place are now a decade old, but in general I prefer the skiing on the Val d'Isere side too, but that could just be because I spent more time there instead of making the trek over to Tignes.

[Rossymcg]

I've not been to Verbs in a long long while. I've got pals who've been and say it's full of banker wankers and banker wankers seasonaire kids trying to act like they're not banker wanker kids. verbs is fucking expensive.
VDI's a pretty place and looks really nice at xmas they make an effort with the decorations it feels xmasy special. It has a good mix of clientele, you can have a beer in the bars and get talking to all walks of life.
All the EK is easily accessible from Tignes or VDI.
Tignes is cheaper than Val and has a different type of visitor,
boozy brits are everywhere in the alps but seem to be preferring Austria now

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[ClarkleberryFinn]

This is a tough one but thought i would throw it out to the experts---this is crystal ball type stuff- if you were to plan a trip in the alps(location is wide open) with your family (and not chasing snow last minute), for the 2 weeks around Christmas 18, where would you be thinking. I know it will probably be a zoo anywhere i go at least post christmas week. I am looking for a large mountain with diverse and fun terrain, on and off piste knowing full well that December could be considered early days for a season (minus this current one). Trying to put myself in a good spot that would provide me the best possible outcome. We would be there from the 20th of December to the 1st of Jan. Finding historical snow data isnt the easiest thing and in some cases, really doesnt help too much. I know the simple facts of going somewhere high like Val Thorens or Tignes but not sure if those get me super excited.
Was thinking of MAYBE Serre Che OR Verbier......again, both of which may be busy but have a good amount of terrain and if all goes to hell, there are things to do off the snow....Any help would be super appreciated....ANY!!!

I would look at somewhere like Schruns (Montafon). Gets a lot of snow, doesn't need much snow to ski well, has plenty of great skiing above and below the treeline, and definitely has Christmassy vibes. Actually Lech would fit the bill too (pricey, but not more so than Verbier or Zermatt). Downside with Schruns is there's nothing in the way of apres or nightlife, if that's important.

The problem with going high for snow surety is that you can equally well get shut down by high winds, avalanche danger, etc (as we saw this season).

[Rossymcg]

^^^Austria they feel it's socially acceptable to chuff on a fag whilst you have your kids on the next table in a family friendly bar/restaurant. that puts me off the country as a whole

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[hafjell]

^^^Austria they feel it's socially acceptable to chuff on a fag whilst you have your kids on the next table in a family friendly bar/restaurant. that puts me off the country as a whole

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Is that still happening? Italy has gotten much better.


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[Rossymcg]

Is that still happening? Italy has gotten much better.


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I was in St Anton last week (1st time in Austria for years) I couldn't believe it. My daughter's did'nt know what a cigarette was untill last week.
Italy haven't smoked in public enclosed spaces since 2005.

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[hafjell]

I was in St Anton last week (1st time in Austria for years) I couldn't believe it. My daughter's did'nt know what a cigarette was untill last week.
Italy haven't smoked in public enclosed spaces since 2005.

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Yikes! Sorry to hear.
Yes, the Dolomites abide by the rules. Same in Germany? Munich was smoke free indoors last Thursday but folks were smoking on the sidewalks.


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[kungpow]

Arrived to Cham yesterday afternoon tired from a long day of traveling. Good mix of rain/snow in the valley in the afternoon so today might be good up high! Of course, jet lagged and up at 4am fully awake. Now the question... what area do I venture to on day 1...

[subtle plague]

Straight line the ensa!
Show those euro pussies what you are made of!

[bobinch]

Arrived to Cham yesterday afternoon tired from a long day of traveling. Good mix of rain/snow in the valley in the afternoon so today might be good up high! Of course, jet lagged and up at 4am fully awake. Now the question... what area do I venture to on day 1...

Warm today so you want to get up high. Looks like GM is fully open so that’s where I’d head. Warm up for tomorrow which could be superb!

[bobinch]

I've not been to Verbs in a long long while. I've got pals who've been and say it's full of banker wankers and banker wankers seasonaire kids trying to act like they're not banker wanker kids. verbs is fucking expensive.
VDI's a pretty place and looks really nice at xmas they make an effort with the decorations it feels xmasy special. It has a good mix of clientele, you can have a beer in the bars and get talking to all walks of life.
All the EK is easily accessible from Tignes or VDI.
Tignes is cheaper than Val and has a different type of visitor,
boozy brits are everywhere in the alps but seem to be preferring Austria now

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Describing Verbier as a toffee nosed, millionaires playground while at the same time suggesting Val d’Isere is a quaint, socially representative little village is somewhat disingenious. They attract similar clientele, if anything Val d’Isere is even more British. Price wise they are in the same category. Lift pass is 10% more in Verbier but accommodation and eating out are similarly expensive. Beer prices are actually typically lower in Verbier. Stay in Le Chable or Nendaz for cheaper accommodation and a more relaxed vibe.

[kungpow]

Went to Brévent this morning. Super fun cream cheese conditions. Surprised how few people are going off piste. Lapped Le Cornu a bunch right when it opened then headed over to Flegere and found similarly fun conditions off L'Index. Wish I pulled out my camera a few more times but snapped this before Cornu was spinning:



I think I'll head to GM tomorrow. At this point I don't think I can go wrong... the views are simply incredible... all the photos I've ever seen really don't do it any justice...

[Buster Highmen]

Describing Verbier as a toffee nosed, millionaires playground while at the same time suggesting Val d’Isere is a quaint, socially representative little village is somewhat disingenuous. They attract similar clientele, if anything Val d’Isere is even more British.

FIFY

Price wise they are in the same category. Lift pass is 10% more in Verbier but accommodation and eating out are similarly expensive. Beer prices are actually typically lower in Verbier. Stay in Le Chable or Nendaz for cheaper accommodation and a more relaxed vibe.

References on those beer prices?

;-).

Verbier, independent of it's glitz and posh, has kickass skiing and is open early.

[comish]

This is a tough one but thought i would throw it out to the experts---this is crystal ball type stuff- if you were to plan a trip in the alps(location is wide open) with your family (and not chasing snow last minute), for the 2 weeks around Christmas 18, where would you be thinking. I know it will probably be a zoo anywhere i go at least post christmas week. I am looking for a large mountain with diverse and fun terrain, on and off piste knowing full well that December could be considered early days for a season (minus this current one). Trying to put myself in a good spot that would provide me the best possible outcome. We would be there from the 20th of December to the 1st of Jan. Finding historical snow data isnt the easiest thing and in some cases, really doesnt help too much. I know the simple facts of going somewhere high like Val Thorens or Tignes but not sure if those get me super excited.
Was thinking of MAYBE Serre Che OR Verbier......again, both of which may be busy but have a good amount of terrain and if all goes to hell, there are things to do off the snow....Any help would be super appreciated....ANY!!!

Took my 6mo old son one year, a couple years later the 3yr old son w 1yr old twins, and most recently when they were 7 and 5 during either New Years week or the week after that. St. Anton has been our go to, although they have also been to Serfaus, AT and this Thanksgiving we went last minute to Obergurgl and Solden AT.

Have also gone to Zermatt for New Years a while back and Val d'Isere in mid December.

Zermatt, while beautiful, needs a ton of snow for the off-piste to work. Think Feb / March. Without it, you are cruising on-piste, albeit in the most beautiful ski resort in the world, but surrounded by schwanky watch/lingerie ads.

Val d'Isere, while high, doesn't typically get as much snow as the Arlberg. What precip that falls will typically be snow, but there isn't as much of it. If you are relegated to just the glacier prepare for mayhem. It's just not big enough to handle the amount of people there during that time of the year. So I think this is a solid, very valid destination, but definitely hit or miss snow wise.

Haven't been to Verbier early season, and the last time I was there was a long time ago, but it blew out minds how expensive it was. Amazing terrain. Generally doesn't get as much snow as the snowy places I mention below, but when good, its great. Decent elevation so that isn't the problem, its just in a somewhat dryer area of the Alps, as is Zermatt (even dryer).

As of '16, We had been 10 of the last 15ish years +/- to the Arlberg. 50% of the time had at least thigh deep. 25% had knee deep, and 25% been skunked and stuck on man made groomers. I would argue that is pretty good for that early in the season. It's relatively high for Austria, although lower than Verbier or Val d'Isere and it has usually rained on us at the base, but there is enough vert making it not a big problem up high. The home runs will get manky, but its pow up high. It is expensive by Austrian standards, but significantly cheaper than Swiss. The Swiss franc is much stronger than the Euro making Switzerland challenging. My data is from 2 years ago and when the USD was stronger, but ski school was something like $350 for 6 days including lunch (Mammoth wants something stupid like $200 a DAY), lift passes worked out to $45ish per day and my younger twins were still free. Many hotels will let the kids stay for free or reduced rates depending on how old. There is a direct bus from Zurich airport to St. Anton making the transfer easy. We have moved on from B&B's to staying in hotels that have breakfast and dinner included. Definitely more $$, but then we have a bier with the kids during their early dinner, put them to bed upstairs, and Mrs. Comish and I can have a great relaxing dinner. Many have childcare or play rooms for the kids too. Works out to be a really great vacation for mom and dad. The nekid sauna is great too.

Skiclub of Great Britain has pretty much the only long term snow stats for the alps that I have found. They aren't perfect, only give you base depth's, but give you an idea of who gets snow when. My take after way too much study is the Arlberg/areas just to the north ala Warth, Schroken, etc. + Engelberg + Andermatt + high elevation Cham typically get the most snow in the Alps. Ideally you want a base depth of 1m mid-mtn to make things off-piste remotely skiable, again depending on whether its pasture or rocky glaciated underneath. You will see from their data that St. Anton usually has that by early Jan. Anything super rocky (Zermatt) or glaciated (Cham), I think its better to wait till later in the season for it to fill in before schlepping across the pond when you are going to book in advance.

Where ever you choose, do it! We have loved our trips and combining airline points from using our CC w/ cheaper lifts and ski school make it a surprisingly affordable ski vacation. My $.02

[Rossymcg]

Took my 6mo old son one year, a couple years later the 3yr old son w 1yr old twins, and most recently when they were 7 and 5 during either New Years week or the week after that. St. Anton has been our go to, although they have also been to Serfaus, AT and this Thanksgiving we went last minute to Obergurgl and Solden AT.

Have also gone to Zermatt for New Years a while back and Val d'Isere in mid December.

Zermatt, while beautiful, needs a ton of snow for the off-piste to work. Think Feb / March. Without it, you are cruising on-piste, albeit in the most beautiful ski resort in the world, but surrounded by schwanky watch/lingerie ads.

Val d'Isere, while high, doesn't typically get as much snow as the Arlberg. What precip that falls will typically be snow, but there isn't as much of it. If you are relegated to just the glacier prepare for mayhem. It's just not big enough to handle the amount of people there during that time of the year. So I think this is a solid, very valid destination, but definitely hit or miss snow wise.

Haven't been to Verbier early season, and the last time I was there was a long time ago, but it blew out minds how expensive it was. Amazing terrain. Generally doesn't get as much snow as the snowy places I mention below, but when good, its great. Decent elevation so that isn't the problem, its just in a somewhat dryer area of the Alps, as is Zermatt (even dryer).

As of '16, We had been 10 of the last 15ish years +/- to the Arlberg. 50% of the time had at least thigh deep. 25% had knee deep, and 25% been skunked and stuck on man made groomers. I would argue that is pretty good for that early in the season. It's relatively high for Austria, although lower than Verbier or Val d'Isere and it has usually rained on us at the base, but there is enough vert making it not a big problem up high. The home runs will get manky, but its pow up high. It is expensive by Austrian standards, but significantly cheaper than Swiss. The Swiss franc is much stronger than the Euro making Switzerland challenging. My data is from 2 years ago and when the USD was stronger, but ski school was something like $350 for 6 days including lunch (Mammoth wants something stupid like $200 a DAY), lift passes worked out to $45ish per day and my younger twins were still free. Many hotels will let the kids stay for free or reduced rates depending on how old. There is a direct bus from Zurich airport to St. Anton making the transfer easy. We have moved on from B&B's to staying in hotels that have breakfast and dinner included. Definitely more $$, but then we have a bier with the kids during their early dinner, put them to bed upstairs, and Mrs. Comish and I can have a great relaxing dinner. Many have childcare or play rooms for the kids too. Works out to be a really great vacation for mom and dad. The nekid sauna is great too.

Skiclub of Great Britain has pretty much the only long term snow stats for the alps that I have found. They aren't perfect, only give you base depth's, but give you an idea of who gets snow when. My take after way too much study is the Arlberg/areas just to the north ala Warth, Schroken, etc. + Engelberg + Andermatt + high elevation Cham typically get the most snow in the Alps. Ideally you want a base depth of 1m mid-mtn to make things off-piste remotely skiable, again depending on whether its pasture or rocky glaciated underneath. You will see from their data that St. Anton usually has that by early Jan. Anything super rocky (Zermatt) or glaciated (Cham), I think its better to wait till later in the season for it to fill in before schlepping across the pond when you are going to book in advance.

Where ever you choose, do it! We have loved our trips and combining airline points from using our CC w/ cheaper lifts and ski school make it a surprisingly affordable ski vacation. My $.02

I've just got back from St Anton. I had over the knee deep powder all week skiing with a local guide. I didn't like the mass invasion of boozed up folks in the town around 20.00 when the krazy kangaroo and the moose kicked out. young un boffing up in the street stumbling in to us. it was more like magaluf than a family ski resort

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