Lotus 138s aren't working

[turboLT]

Me: big boy, 6'0, 235 lbs with a pack on
Skis: DPS lotus pure 138 Flex 3 Rocker 3.1
Bindings: Marker Duke mounted -1
Other big ski I liked: S7

So I mounted up dukes on my lotus 138's at -1 and took them out for some brief slackcountry during Avy 1 in north tahoe. I didn't get too many runs in, but I did ride low angle powder, high angle wind affected crusty stuff, and groomers as well as skinned and traversed. I absolutely hated them and can't figure out why.

Low angle powder - kept getting into the back seat and losing control. I have to tailgun my older Line Blends in deep stuff as well and can still control them with no problem. The Blends have no rocker and are hooky in powder but the Lotuses were squirrely at best with lots of ski banging.

High angle crusty - per advice from our instructor I made a point to lean forward and....sunk the tips and flipped. Tail gunned the rest of the way down the slope and felt borderline out of control the whole time. In all fairness i'm not sure any ski did well in those conditions, but these were beyond disappointing.

More low angle powder at the bottom of ^^ - felt like I was totally out of control

Groomer - was in control, believe it or not. These did best on said groomers and I had no problem keeping up. Traversing was also no problem.

Any suggestions? I've seen the post about mounting from 0 to -2, but then seen more posts about mounting at 0 or +1. I figured -1 was a good call for a Neanderthal like me? I had no issues charging the F out of the S7's.

[Chowda]

I've never skied 138s, but a few things I have noticed in general.

1. Stiff rockered skis need speed to plane up. For low angle pow stick to the Hellbentchetler's7 of the world.

2. Skis with non-traditional sidecuts and rocker all have a different feel. Give them some time. Skis like the 138 aren't generic, that's why we all love them, but they don't ski generically either. Once you find the right balance and style I bet you'll love them.

3. Pintails need constant attention. You have to ski them or they do something weird.

[Bertier]

FWIW - it takes me a a day or 2 to re-learn my praxis every season - sweetspot, balance, etc. - everything's a touch different than a traditional ski. Dont stress it, epiphany is right around the corner.

[cooks]

I've never skied the 138's but based on other r/r skis, don't tail gun it, it will ski terribly. Maybe try a more centered stance if driving the tips wasn't working.

And it also takes me a day or two each year to re learn my donner partys. It could just need some getting used to.

[TeleThor]

You're a little bigger than me, but when I had 138s (202s, F2) I found that I had to be very centered balance-wise. But as long as I was centered, they were super fun. Wish I still had them.

[El Chupacabra]

Me: big boy, 6'0, 235 lbs with a pack on
Skis: DPS lotus pure 138 Flex 3 Rocker 3.1
Bindings: Marker Duke mounted -1
Other big ski I liked: S7

I weigh less than you by about 30 lbs, but ski Tahoe snow too, and have 138s F3 R1 (narrow pointy tip, less rocker) mounted at near 0.

I find that what works really well on the 138 is (1) point it to get up to speed before turning -- doesn't take a lot of speed, but definitely a little bit helps the skis come alive, and (2) ski as centered as you can, not forward, not rearward; if you feel unstable or find it hard to balance in the center, keep the skis on edge a bit more (always be turning/ arcing/ sliding).

I find it hard to straightline in untracked pow on 138s -- the fore/aft balance is hard to stay just "on" -- so I try to keep the skis on edge a bit, and always be turning/arcing some. If the pow is tracked or heavier, it's easier to ski.

I really like the 138s, but it takes a run or 3 to get used to them.

[turboLT]

Thanks for the advice guys - I'm excited to give them another go this weekend! I'll try to keep centered and see if they liven up a bit

[jondrums]

+1 to everything Chup says. I am the same size and have the same skis as you. I freaking love them. (mounted center)

[IvanLipko]

I am pretty sure the problem is Flex 3 - look at this thread to know why I think so - http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ighlight=lotus

Actually I still can't get why people buy dps skis in F3 - my 2's are so damn stiff, stiffer than XXL's.

[cpj.slc]

Ton of good advice for you (and everyone trying RR skis) in this threat. I have some Praxis Pows and have skied the Lotus 138, so I will just echo what has already been said, a very centered stance is your friend. I grew up racing and was in the habit of driving the tips of skis. Skiing on a RR almost feels like "passive" skiing to me, you just stand on them like you would stand to wait for the light to change in a cross walk, pretty equal weight on your heels and balls of your feet. And like everyone else has said, give them some time to get use to, and the relationship between speed and fun is positive, so go fast, you will have so much fun on them.

[dps]

I was just writing a blog ode to the Lotus 138 after last Sunday's bottomless planing and surfing ridiculousness at Alta- and was saddened to see this.

Based on what you are saying- tips squirrelly and out of control- I would suggest moving forward 1- 1.5cm. On the 3.1, the mounting point was moved back to 84.5cm- so it's already set back.

On a ski like this, the sweet spot is much smaller, but once you have it and if it works for you, it's hard to go back to the conventional stuff for deep snow.

I hope it works out... PM me if you want to discuss more.

[Chugachjed]

Sent them to me and I will test them thoroughly. If they are defective I will be able to tell you within the span of one season. I will not charge you for this service as long as you pay for shipping.

[DudeLebowSKI]

Me: big boy, 6'0, 235 lbs with a pack on
Skis: DPS lotus pure 138 Flex 3 Rocker 3.1
Bindings: Marker Duke mounted -1
Other big ski I liked: S7

So I mounted up dukes on my lotus 138's at -1 and took them out for some brief slackcountry during Avy 1 in north tahoe. I didn't get too many runs in, but I did ride low angle powder, high angle wind affected crusty stuff, and groomers as well as skinned and traversed. I absolutely hated them and can't figure out why.

Low angle powder - kept getting into the back seat and losing control. I have to tailgun my lines in deep stuff and can still maintain control no problem. Squirrely at best and lots of ski banging.

High angle crusty - per advice from our instructor I made a point to lean forward and....sunk the tips and flipped. Tail gunned the rest of the way down the slope and felt borderline out of control the whole time. In all fairness i'm not sure any ski did well, but these were beyond disappointing.

More low angle powder at the bottom of ^^ - felt like I was totally out of control

Groomer - was in control, believe it or not. These did best on said groomers and I had no problem keeping up. Traversing was also no problem.

Any suggestions? I've seen the post about mounting from 0 to -2, but then seen more posts about mounting at 0 or +1. I figured -1 was a good call for a Neanderthal like me? I had no issues charging the F out of the S7's.

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just trying to cover all the bases for a ski that is widely loved. I am being serious because it happened to me....do your boots have a walk mode?

I'll never forget my first trip to Snowbird. I was so excited that I forgot my fucking boots. Borrowed a friend of a friend's boots and little known to me they had a 'walk' mode. By mid day, I was ready to quit skiing entirely. Totally out of control, back seat, skis clacking, WTF?!?! Discovered the 'walk' mode at lunch...turned into one of the best ski days of my life. True story.

[turboLT]

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just trying to cover all the bases for a ski that is widely loved. I am being serious because it happened to me....do your boots have a walk mode?

Hilarious! No, they're not in walk mode though. My craptastic boots need an allen wrench to change it to "soft" so I just tour with the buckles undone up top and tighten down before skiing.

Ton of good advice for you (and everyone trying RR skis) in this thread. Skiing on a RR almost feels like "passive" skiing to me, you just stand on them like you would stand to wait for the light to change in a cross walk, pretty equal weight on your heels and balls of your feet.

^^ This is the best description I've heard so far re: how to ski these. Snow willing, i'm going to give it a shot this weekend even if the snow warrants bringing both my Lines and the Lotuses.

Based on what you are saying- tips squirrelly and out of control- I would suggest moving forward 1- 1.5cm. On the 3.1, the mounting point was moved back to 84.5cm- so it's already set back.

This is also great advice. I'm hesitant to drill them again without a little more testing using the advice above, but I'm mounting up a pair of Lhasa Pows next week so if this weekend is more of the same with the Lotuses I'll bring those forward 1.5cm as well. I really appreicate the PM offer for more help and will be in touch after Saturday with more details if necessary.

Thank you guys again for your help sorting this out - i'm excited to be excited about these skis!

[knumbskull]

Also, from your avatar it appear like your jeans may have been too tight. This is a common problem and especially prevalent around Presidents Day. Try a different pair of Jeans from your pants quiver. Perhaps a pair of Levi's instead of Wranglers. Once the blood comes rushing back to your legs, feet and balls I'm sure you will feel a world of difference in your skiing!

[neufox47]

Obviously the skis are just garbage. Ill do you a favor and give you a $100 for them shipped

[turnfarmer]

Are you new to Dukes? If so consider the binding ramp angle. Your description of feeling ooc sounds like I feel when I have too much ramp. Possibly the dukes have to little for you?

[toiletduck]

Have you considered it could be a general technique issue rather than gear? No offence intended!

[Beyond]

Have you considered it could be a general technique issue rather than gear? No offence intended!

^^^^^ In all honesty, you seem to spend a lot of time either in the backseat or on the hood. Some modern designs like a more neutral stance, less dramatic fore-aft movements. Especially with a stiff ski, which is going to be more efficient at transmitting those movements to the snow, less forgiving.

[khyber.pass]

I'd second Stephan's advice to bump your mount forward +1 to +1.5. The 138 is a carefully balanced ski which needs a centered mount in respect to the interplay of camber and reverse-rocker.

Also the Dukes have little ramp angle, which some people in these here parts have belaboured at great length. If you are used to a binding with higher ramp angle, the flat stance of the Duke takes a bit of getting used to.

Overall, this is a reverse-reverse ski with camber, which means taking a few days at least figuring how to drive the thing. And windcrust and other crap won't be the best conditions to figure out how the ski flexes and behaves -- adverse conditions require all kinds of unconscious learned behaviours to ski properly, which won't become ingrained until you dial them in. If you stepped into a Lamborghini you'd probably stall it in first gear too

[xtrmjoe]

My first set of the 138's were the white with red stripe 190cm flex 3's. They definitely took a couple of days to master as they were my first try on anything with rocker. I got the flex 3's because that is what they had left during the summer sale prior to the black ones being released. My only complaint with them was that they were not that lively until up to speed so any lower angle stuff they were kind of dead feeling. After a few seasons on them I went to the 202cm flex 2's, again due to them being left during the summer sale and me not being worried about length due to the rocker or weight of them. They are more fun when not at full speed and don't have any speed limit I can find. I rode them once prior to detueing and did not like them as much as I thought I would. Detuned they are so much more versatile.

I first had them mounted with dukes. This season I mounted sollyfit plates and for the resort use 914's. The lighter weight and stack height seem of the solly/dyafit seem to make them even more responsive/light/lively. I think maybe the weight and stack height of the duke take away a little bit of pleasure that is possible with them.

[gonzo12]

as mentioned above: Are you new to Dukes?

I had huge trouble when i switched to Dukes - couldn't quite get fore/aft position right, had trouble driving the ski, couldnt figure out was was wrong. Previous to the dukes i had some Solly's on the ski.

On the otherhand, if you've skied Dukes before, ignore the above line

[rip]

Time to break my lurker status and add some input to this thread..

I have had a pair of the older white 138s flex 3 for a few years now. I am a bigger guy like yourself and have them mounted at -1. I think motherships are the greatest skis ever, hated the s7s, and enjoyed pontoons.

I mean this with no offense intended, but in my experience if 138s don't immediately redefine your perception of speed and powerful turns through powder you need one of two things. Steeper terrain or to become a better skier/ski faster!

Last friday at snowbird I had...I am still not sure if I can put it into words. I have never skied waist deep snow with the speed that I was able to ski it that day. Turns from that day from my runs off Baldy are burned into my brain forever.

Think back to the time before lost your virginity. In your adolescence you probably tried fucking lots of things(your hand, couch cushions, banana peels)..some things got you off, some didn't. But when you finally put your penis in a vagina, you knew there was nothing that could compare.

138s are your dick, you just need to find a powder pussy. In mellow terrain, I think 138s are overkill, and honestly just make powder skiing boring(as boring as it can be..a sweet problem to have..). These skis come alive with lots of speed and lots of steep vertical, AND when you are not hitting anything under the new deep snow, no pow over moguls, no windbuff. If you ski 138s with the same style that you ski powder normally, you won't see the benefit. What you need to realize is that things that your brain wouldn't think was possible with regular shape skis, are now possible.

I see these skis get recommended all the time for people looking for powder skis, I really can't agree with that. They are not like s7s or pontoons. They do not make powder skiing "easier." In the right conditions, they allow you to ski in a way that no other ski can allow. A new experience that is all its own.

As I have slowly become a better skier my appreciation for these skis has grown greatly. As mentioned before, the sweet spot is smaller than most skis, and if you aren't on it, the skis are a handful. But, when you are on it, in the right conditions, your mind will be blown.

DPS..If you are reading this, thank you.

[neck beard]

Great post.

Did you really fuck a banana peel?

[dps]

rip... chills down my spine... thank you.