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  1. #1
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    Stupid NHL players (nsr)

    The NHL intends to reject the Players' Association's latest proposal and counter with one "consistent with our mandate," NHL executive vice president Bill Daly wrote in a Dec. 12 memorandum to all 30 member clubs.

    The memo was obtained by The Sports Network of Canada.

    The league has been seeking a system of "cost containment" throughout talks with the union on a new collective bargaining agreement. The Players' Association regards any connection between revenues and salaries as a salary cap and a non-starter in negotiations. While the memo does not detail what the NHL's proposal will contain, Daly writes that " ... under this scenario, the Union will likely [and quickly] break off negotiations."

    The NHL will present its counter-proposal to the NHLPA at a 1 p.m. ET meeting Tuesday in Toronto.

    The union proposed a 24-percent rollback in current salaries as the lynchpin of a 236-page proposal it presented to the league Thursday, the first negotiating session between the sides since Sept. 9. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had called the offer "significant," but added that it is a "one-time element." Bettman said the league would digest the offer before formally responding to the union.

    Daly's eight-page memo reiterates Bettman's initial statement and further elaborates with the league's position.

    "In sum, we believe the Union's December 9 CBA proposal, while offering necessary and significant short-term financial relief, falls well short of providing the fundamental systemic changes that are required to ensure that overall League economics remain in synch on a going-forward basis," Daly writes.

    "While the immediate 'rollback' of 24 percent offered by the Union would materially improve League economics for the 2004-05 season, there is virtually nothing in the Union's proposal that would prevent the dollars 'saved' from being re-directed right back into the player compensation system, such that the League's overall financial losses would approach current levels in only a matter of a couple of years."

    Daly also pokes holes in the union's specific proposals, while alluding to the NHL's position, writing:

    # The 24-percent rollback amount was adequate but should be structured among players "in a more equitable manner";

    # The proposed entry-level system "can still easily be circumvented";

    # The changes to the qualifying offer system "certainly would not result in the savings of the magnitude projected by the Union";

    # The salary arbitration alterations "would have very limited impact [if any] on a Club's or League-wide economics ... We intend to reiterate our proposal to eliminate salary arbitration in our next offer to the Union";

    # The luxury tax system demonstrates the union's "continuing objective to avoid at all costs placing meaningful restraints on a Club's ability to spend excessively on player salaries";

    The memo also questions the motives behind the union's offer.

    "We believe the Union's offer was more about trying to unify the players and ensure player solidarity with what they would perceive as a very substantial proposal than it was about making a good faith effort to reach agreement with us ..." Daly writes. " ... The Union needed the 'rallying point' that it felt this offer would provide with the players to effectuate this strategy. Under this scenario, the Union will likely [and quickly] break off negotiations."
    Now I know the owners are not blameless in all this mess but:

    no connection between revenues & payroll?!?!

    these guys even balance their own checkbooks?

    I could just hear me tellin the bank when the hotel's note gets renewed:
    Well I wanted the best talent as employees, and other hotels kept upping their salary point....

    Yeah I know I am hemoraging money, and so are they, but hey good people gotta be paid what they are worth.....


    [Geronimo] MORONS! [/angryinjun]

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy
    Now I know the owners are not blameless in all this mess but:

    no connection between revenues & payroll?!?!

    these guys even balance their own checkbooks?

    I could just hear me tellin the bank when the hotel's note gets renewed:
    Well I wanted the best talent as employees, and other hotels kept upping their salary point....

    Yeah I know I am hemoraging money, and so are they, but hey good people gotta be paid what they are worth.....


    [Geronimo] MORONS! [/angryinjun]
    And you believe everything that that fucking useless piece of shit Bettman says! Have you ever watched him talk on TV...I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth! No, they never cooked their books ...ya right!

    One thing that everyone seems to forget, it's the greedy OWNERS that got themselves into this mess. Afterall they were the ones that were running around signing the big checks, to get the big names on their payroll. Look how far that got the Rangers...out of the playoffs for how many years now?

    At least the players are trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem. What has Bettman done...nadda! and he doesn't give a rat's ass about hockey (where was that he played the game?), he came from basketball. If you ask me the pendulum of who is getting the public support is swinging away from the owners, cus they aren't doing jack shit to solve the problem!

    Let's start a new league and Bettman ain't allowed, cus he's killing hockey.

    There, I feel much better now!

  3. #3
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    Given the staggering number of replies to this thread people really, really care about hockey. The owners are stupid fucks and pay assholes like Federov $8 million and the players players are stupid fucks and don't realize they'd be working at the local lumber yard if it wasn't for hockey, so any more than $18,000 a year is gravy.
    How many clubs fold because of this mess?
    The trumpet scatters its awful sound Over the graves of all lands Summoning all before the throne

    Death and mankind shall be stunned When Nature arises To give account before the Judge

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpyg
    And you believe everything that that fucking useless piece of shit Bettman says! Have you ever watched him talk on TV...I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth! No, they never cooked their books ...ya right!

    One thing that everyone seems to forget, it's the greedy OWNERS that got themselves into this mess. Afterall they were the ones that were running around signing the big checks, to get the big names on their payroll. Look how far that got the Rangers...out of the playoffs for how many years now?

    At least the players are trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem. What has Bettman done...nadda! and he doesn't give a rat's ass about hockey (where was that he played the game?), he came from basketball. If you ask me the pendulum of who is getting the public support is swinging away from the owners, cus they aren't doing jack shit to solve the problem!

    Let's start a new league and Bettman ain't allowed, cus he's killing hockey.

    There, I feel much better now!

    Pyg knows what he's talking aboot, the owners are the problem, a new league is the answer.

  5. #5
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    I just want to watch Lemieux play one more year for the Penguins. Looks like that won't happen. F-ing players, owners, and league administrators! I blame all of them for not fixing the NHL sooner.
    Avoiding the real world since 1979

  6. #6
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    i don't understand how gary bettman continues to say they are willing to negotiate, but they have no partner. When was the last proposal from the NHL? at least they are finally making one, but its totally useless. same old shit, just more for each side to whine about in the media.

    I agree we need a new league. bettman and goodenow are going to run this into the ground. if either one of them caves now after all their posturing they will lose their job.

    PS if i see that clip of bettman sitting with goodenow taking a bite of a taco one more time i am going to cry.

    Clubs that will go under? probably the bible belt teams. nashville, columbus etc. calgary is poor but the fan base is there at least. I'd say tampa bay suffers the most. they would have made a killing after finally getting a good team and winning the cup. now they will be delegated to the back page of the sports section once again.

  7. #7
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    proposals & counter proposals

    http://nhlcbanews.com/news/comparison.html

    Current system is going to take the league down,
    new league?
    who's forming it?

    how many years of history will be flushed?\

    I just wanna watch some hockey

  8. #8
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    Woodsy- I was in lloydminster for turkey day. They still have tons of hockey up there. Its mostly minor league but pretty good stuff. You guys have a team down there? We've got a minor league team (I think junior A's), its fun to watch. Even though the hockey isn't as good its more fun to go to the game than to watch on tv.

  9. #9
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    This is going to be the end of the NHL as we know it. Personally, I *blame* the owners - the Rangers, the Red Wings, the Flyers, and the Maple Leafs. They only have themselves to blame for pushing up salaries. If owners can't police themselves, why should players subject themselves to changes now? The funny thing is... in hockey, money doesn't but championships.. but it seems most owners don't realize it.

    ..and yes, the players are greedy bastards too..

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=1080Rider]Woodsy- I was in lloydminster for turkey day.[QUOTE]

    Sorry to hijack - but, what were you doing in Lloyd 1080? Spent high-school there, so I'm curious.

    On topic - the players and owners both need to yank their heads out of the their asses and Bettman should have been sent packing years ago.

  11. #11
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    Why would anyone want to spend thanksgiving in Lloydminster...

    The owners got themselves into this problem, and they are now trying to get themselves out of it.

    Both sides have made the salary cap a hill to die on, so you can't simply blame the owners for killing negotiations based on that one issue. While the players latest offer was substantial, a luxury tax wont solve the problem. It will simply allow those teams with the cash to go out there and spend money like they always have.

    Regardless of whose side you are on, you have to admit that when a team with a $1MM loss (Edmonton Oilers in 2002 / 2003) is in the top 1/3rd of teams from a profit/loss standpoint, that there is something wrong with the current business model, and it requires fixing.
    I went out there in search of experience. To taste, and to touch, and to feel as much as a man can, before he repents.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuk
    Regardless of whose side you are on, you have to admit that when a team with a $1MM loss (Edmonton Oilers in 2002 / 2003) is in the top 1/3rd of teams from a profit/loss standpoint, that there is something wrong with the current business model, and it requires fixing.
    That's all very interesting MORON, but not very rock and roll.

  13. #13
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    Tonight is $1. beer night

    AHL UTAH GRIZZLIES


    WHO IS IN?
    Points on their own sitting way up high

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
    That's all very interesting MORON, but not very rock and roll.
    waah...you hurt my feelings.

    BTW, really good addition to the discussion.

    Thanks for coming out, douchebag.
    I went out there in search of experience. To taste, and to touch, and to feel as much as a man can, before he repents.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy
    I just wanna watch some hockey
    I would have thought more attention would be given to the college game this season but that doesn't really seem to be the case, it's not like the NHL is the only good hockey out there. It'd be nice if the TV people would figure out that the college game is as good as college football/basketball etc..

  16. #16
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    The rich Players arent as greedy as the super rich owners come on.
    I like a tax cause it puts the blame where it should be on the greedier
    owners.

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