Binding Insert Advice: Quiver Killer v. BindingFreedom?

[ExoticSkis]

I'm looking for people who have experience with both Quiver Killer/PuderLuder and jondrum's new Binding Freedom inserts....can anyone compare the pros and cons of each from experience...? I'm looking to swap a fleet of demo bindings between a batch of skis...getting tired of beg/borrow/steal/buy bindings for every pair... I'm not looking for a plate solution...just screw inserts.

I have read the chatter in the various posts, but haven't seen a real comparison yet..(or maybe I just missed it..duh)..

[Dr.Sih]

I have a set of both in my tool box right now, looking at them physically they look the same, from the outside.

The advantage of the longer rolled (forged) internal thread is definitely a benefit for the bindingfreedom inserts, increasing its durability and the number of changes it can with stand.

I personally installed some quiver killers and haven't had an issue of a thread striping or running out of thread for a fastener.

My brother and a friend both installed some of the new bindingfreedom inserts in their skis, and they are really liking them. I believe my friend had an issue using the flat head to install his bindingfreedom inserts. If i recall correctly he was saying he might not have cut the thread deep enough or may have had too much epoxy in the hole. When my bother installed his bindingfreedom inserts he ended up using the bolt nut combination that i used to install my quiver killers. Neither had the install tool designed by Jondrums though.

My opinion, basically the same. But bindingfreedom, the originator, has the capacity to handle more changes with the rolled threads over the cut threads in the quiver killers. I haven't seen too much advantage for the slotted top compared to no slot, but we did not have the install tool to compare installations with.

[jondrums]

there's a maggot deal for BindingFreedom inserts. PM sent.

[bfree]

Since Jon designed them both, he probably knows what's best...

[farmer]

binding freedom hands down.

cheaper

stronger

and the $$ goes to the guy who actually designed the inserts, swap plates and a number of paper mounting templates.

[1000-oaks]

Two on left are Binding Freedom, two on right are Quiver Killers.



(These are at 1/4 size, so you don't see the manufacturing marks that can make anything look ugly...lol)

[willmtbike4food]

1000-oaks - do you have a link to the higher-res?

Looks like the external threads are a bit cleaner on the Binding Freedom inserts...

[1000-oaks]

The external threads on the BF inserts are definitely rolled and the external threads on the QK inserts are definitely cut, but being a hobby machinist I don't see any functional difference whatsoever in an application like this. It's not like the external threads could possibly tear off the insert or wear out.

Let me ask Jon if it's okay to post a cropped hi-res version, his call. Too much detail can spook folks who don't understand that everything looks rough & crudely made if you magnify it enough.

[neufox47]

Have both, haven't stripped either, (but I know the QK's should strip easier) installing the Binding freedom inserts is easier due to using a big ass screwdriver instead of the screw with two bolts technique. I did partially strip the threads on one of the Dynafit holes on my Sollyfits. But that was because I was a dumbass. The hole still works though. I have done 2-3 swaps since.

[jondrums]

100oaks - go ahead and post hi-res, surface finish isn't the end-all-be-all. In fact, I discussed with my machine shop that a little surface roughness is actually good for epoxy adhesion. So we worked together to get a nice balance of good quality durable threads, but with a little roughness for the epoxy process.

Regarding rolled exterior threads - there is very little chance that cut threads will fail in this application (ski topsheet probably fails first), but it generally known that rolled threads are stronger and more durable than cut threads. I just felt it was the right way to make them.

[1000-oaks]

Got the okay from Jon, here's the link to the 518K high-res crop:
http://www.phototurbo.com/temp/ski-inserts-bf.jpg

(This photo wasn't intented to be a polished product photo, just a quick-n-dirty shot for this thread.)

[Sinecure]

/\/\ No fucking way! That's sweet. Almost makes them price competitive with Binding Freedom. You're having a fun time spamming that code around, aren't you jong? Have you posted anything other than that on TGR? I don't think so.

Also notice that Binding Freedom inserts are less 'pointy' than the QK ones. Less chance of causing problems by over-inserting / screwing in too far.

[cauld]

Hi GUys

Have you seen any success with droping Quiver KIllers into the premounted (plastic) inserts on Dynafit skis?

Would really like to be able to swap my S-peed Rasdcalls on and off a few airs of skis.

[piglet55]

Hi GUys

Have you seen any success with droping Quiver KIllers into the premounted (plastic) inserts on Dynafit skis?

It's been done. Both by me and others. So far it works good for me. The plastic inserts is 12mm and the drill bit needed was 8-9mm if I remembering correctly. So you have a couple of mm on the plus-side.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113437974048240330442/Div#

Some reading regarding this in the comments.
http://www.wildsnow.com/1307/dynafit...nting-manaslu/

[harpo-the-skier]

Hi GUys

Have you seen any success with droping Quiver KIllers into the premounted (plastic) inserts on Dynafit skis?

Would really like to be able to swap my S-peed Rasdcalls on and off a few airs of skis.

C, contact Lou at wildsnow.com with your question, I think he has.

[10% Groomed]

there's a maggot deal for BindingFreedom inserts. PM sent.

Ouch...wish I knew about that a couple hundred dollars ago.

[Bobcat Sig]

BindingFreedom.com all day long. Jon is a stand up dude. He also hasn't ripped off other's paper templates and branded them as his own.

[Ivan Oder]

I have both and I prefer binding freedom because of the flathead screw driver slot at the top.

That lets you screw the insert in and more importantly remove it, to test the quality of your tapping job before applying epoxy.

[Bosco]

there's a maggot deal for BindingFreedom inserts. PM sent.

If I'm not too much of a Jong can you PM me the maggot deal? I'll be starting my move to Cameron Park in a couple of weeks, and my first task when moved in will be to mount a pair a Plum and Duke bindings. Using your inserts seems like a good idea.

[jondrums]

Just so there's full disclosure - here's the deal on the maggot discount:

*I priced the inserts at an everyday low price rather than pass around coupon codes and pro deals
*I extend a token discount to anyone who joined TGR forums before me, which is the only discount I do

This is because a lot of people here gave me a lot of help when I was first working on this stuff. I'd like to thank the people who helped make this place what it was when I joined.

[TheDon]

Jon is great. I trust him and feel like is a perfect example of why this community rules.

Jon is a true powder maggot.

[Bosco]

Jon, your pricing structure and discount requirements are more than fair. I'll be placing my order when I get in my new digs. I don't need no stinking discount.

[cegli]

Hi Jon,

I'm trying to make a PlumBaron setup for my skis. Right now I have Baron's mounted into them the standard way. I believe the Plum's have a dynafit screw pattern, minus one screw. If I'm trying to save weight, there's no reason for me to go with the DynaDuke plate right? I might as well drill all the holes and put the bindingfreedom coils in?

[auvgeek]

Plates versus inserts have been discussed ad nauseum. Search and ye shall receive.

There may be a hole conflict (too lazy to check and it depends entirely on your bsl), which is one reason the plates are nice. But then again, there may be a hole conflict with the plate too. Search for the binding template thread that jon made and then determine what the best solution is.

[cegli]

Thanks auvgeek! I have been searching around a bit and reading up on both, but just wanted to double check before I drop a bunch of cash on this idea. The Baron's and Plums should have the same binding holes as the Dynafit/Duke's (DynaDuke Plate) that is sold, so I don't think there should be hole conflict. I'll try and find the binding template thread and read through that.