Yuppie Backcountry - this can only end in tears

**Arnold Pants** · 12-10-2004, 05:28 PM

From today's New York Times...

Skiing Without Boundaries
By CHRISTOPHER SOLOMON

Published: December 10, 2004

N January, the Telluride Ski and Golf Resort in Colorado will open up a coveted new type of real estate. This territory isn't slopeside; it's the slopes themselves — new ones to conquer, and without the usual competition.

For an additional $100, a strong skier who has taken a half-day private ski lesson can don an avalanche-safety beacon and a shovel and then hike with a guide for 30 minutes to the high point of Prospect Ridge, leaving behind the skiers and snowboarders jockeying for powder. There, with 13,320-foot Palmyra Peak glaring over their shoulders, they will snap into their bindings and plunge down a ski run that is off limits to others. Wild country, deep snow, a shiver of sweat and excitement down the spine — this is as close as many skiers will ever get to backcountry skiing.

Call it Backcountry Lite. Traditional ski resorts around the West are cashing in on the cachet of an escape from the well-groomed and well-used slopes. They are offering more hike-to terrain, more excursions with guides along their ski areas' perimeters, more rides in tank-treaded Sno-Cats that carry skiers to ridgelines just beyond the chairlifts.

"You really feel like you're doing something special that other people are missing out on," said Hannah Swett, 35, a Manhattanite who takes guided ski excursions to the backcountry at Jackson Hole, in Wyoming, where she owns a home. She found her opportunity to join the trend when she discovered a guide program two winters ago at Jackson Hole; $495 buys a guide for a day to accompany up to five skiers.

Equipped with avalanche beacons and shovels, Backcountry Lite skiers at Jackson Hole jump on an early tram to the mountaintop and duck through the gates into its famous beyond-the-ropes stashes like Rock Springs Bowl. "You see people heading out these gates," Ms. Swett said, "and you think, `I just have to go.' " Once beyond the prepared ski runs, she added, "You don't see anyone."

When the groups in the guide program return to the lifts, that $495 also gets them line-cutting privileges. The program has grown so popular that the United States Forest Service recently granted approval for Jackson Hole, which is largely on public land, to triple the number of guided visitors in the backcountry to 900.

"This is definitely a trend, and an increasing trend," said Nolan Rosall, president of RRC Associates, a Boulder, Colo., company that does market research, planning and consulting for the ski industry. Terrain is opening up that "wasn't available before, or wasn't utilized as much, or marketed as much," he said. "It's adding diversity to the sport that really didn't exist to anywhere near the same degree 10 or 15 years ago."

Back then, backcountry skiing was the domain of scruffy, large-lunged guys who chafed at lift tickets and the tyranny of boundary ropes. Today out-of-bounds is hot. Ski films by companies like Teton Gravity Research long ago stopped using the soporific slopes of the world; today's sequences show ski stars swinging big turns in places like Greenland. And at specialty ski stores, sales of telemark gear, which is frequently used in the backcountry because its free-heel bindings allow easy movement, increased more than 74 percent last season from the season before, according to Snowsports Industries America, which tracks industry trends. At the same time, sales of alpine skis and snowboards were flat.

For the rest, see:
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/12/1...es/10ADVE.html

I think it is important to note that this is apparently all TGR's fault. Nice work guys. If you'd stuck to the tried and true of putting too many people on a chair, none of this happens. Maybe Warren Miller isn't such a douchebag after all, eh?

**iceman** · 12-10-2004, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Arnold Pants

I think it is important to note that this is apparently all TGR's fault. Nice work guys. If you'd stuck to the tried and true of putting too many people on a chair, none of this happens. Maybe Warren Miller isn't such a douchebag after all, eh?

okay, pretty funny.

**Lane Meyer** · 12-10-2004, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Arnold Pants

I think it is important to note that this is apparently all TGR's fault. Nice work guys. If you'd stuck to the tried and true of putting too many people on a chair, none of this happens. Maybe Warren Miller isn't such a douchebag after all, eh?

Yeah, thanks a lot Dirk, Steve, Todd, and Jeremy. You guys suck, having never inspired me to do anything, ever. Way to go.

**iceman** · 12-10-2004, 05:41 PM

The rolleyes is too much.

Sacasm, muthafucka! Do you speak it?

**Greydon Clark** · 12-10-2004, 05:45 PM

I blame the tele skiers.

**Buster Highmen** · 12-10-2004, 05:48 PM

It's Silverton's fault. Really.

**Lane Meyer** · 12-10-2004, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

The rolleyes is too much.

Sacasm, muthafucka! Do you speak it?

What? I saw your sarcasm, and raised you a rolleyes. The pot is good, letsse your cards, tiger.

edit - while we're at it, can I have some of your tasty beverage, to wash this down?

**iceman** · 12-10-2004, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lane Meyer

What? I saw your sarcasm, and raised you a rolleyes. The pot is good, letsse your cards, tiger.

Okay that's funny. Bitch.

**gramps** · 12-10-2004, 07:27 PM

Something I saw in an Adbusters a while back...

It was a Johnny Walker whiskey add I think?

It was a picture of a seaside cave with this list underneath it

1) Find the perfect cave.
2) Find that people will pay to be taken to this cave.
3) Find the perfect job.

The guy who sent it in attached a little note that said "-what a mindfuck"

Reminds me of this situation a little for some reason.

**Trackhead** · 12-10-2004, 07:58 PM

"You really feel like you're doing something special that other people are missing out on," said Hannah Swett, 35, a Manhattanite who takes guided ski excursions to the backcountry at Jackson Hole, in Wyoming, where she owns a home. She found her opportunity to join the trend when she discovered a guide program two winters ago at Jackson Hole; $495 buys a guide for a day to accompany up to five skiers.

$495 !!! Are you fuggin kidding me? That's still a 100 bucks per person.

I don't know who I feel more sorry for, the guide who has to schlep these undoubtably soft, off the couch gumbies around. Or the clients forking over that kind of dough to ski a couple BC runs.

Sounds like Ms. Swett (single, rich, 35yr. old women) needs to sponsor some floor space for the Jackson Summit. I call dibs on her bed.

Hey Miss Swett, I'll make ya sweat for free.

**seldon** · 12-10-2004, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

[SIZE=4]

Sounds like Ms. Swett (single, rich, 35yr. old women) needs to sponsor some floor space for the Jackson Summit. I call dibs on her bed.

I call dibs on her.

**skier666** · 12-10-2004, 11:43 PM

I blame the tele skiers.

Oh snap.....!

**The AD** · 12-11-2004, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

$495 !!! Are you fuggin kidding me? That's still a 100 bucks per person.

It might sound like a lot to you, but it's chump change to some people.

I don't know who I feel more sorry for, the guide who has to schlep these undoubtably soft, off the couch gumbies around.

Don't feel sorry for the guide. He or she is making $495, remember.

**Lostinthetrees** · 12-11-2004, 03:27 AM

Stay calm, don't panic. This "trend" will pass in a few years.

Keep a low profile. Keep quiet. Just don't brag about "back-country" in the lift lines. Don't even mention the word.

If people in the lift lines notice your gear is a bit different just complement their "carving" skis. Put down your grubby old gear and say as soon as the wife gets a new job w/ a paycheck that you will be purchasing "new carvers" like they are using. Tele is for wannabe's. Carving up the pistes and ripping the corduroy is the hot ticket.

Duck the ropes or exit the gates when no one is looking. Quickly disappear into the trees. Stay out of the open where you can be spotted. Stay below the radar screen.

Always return to lift lines, lodges, bars and into town with a depressed look on your face. Never smile. Never beam. Slump, look dejected and curse alot about your day in bc.

Get lost in the trees. Find your own peace and solitude and don't post up about your bc trips.

litt

**Svengali** · 12-11-2004, 05:40 AM

Hannah Swett, 35, Is she single? this seems to be the only question that matters(seldon, sorry man but depending on her assets, I'll have her hypnotized in no time)---cause rich gapers are exactly that, nothing more

The real problem with all of this is that it gives mountain managers ideas like charging extra for out of bounds access

**finsy** · 12-11-2004, 10:52 AM

just in time for the holidays any rich prick with a wad of cash can access what was once "local stash". we sould not be surprised, with the increase in the popularity of the "backcountry" experience why would'nt ski area capitalize on the trend. just another reason why ski resorts should be avoided all together!

I encourage anyone who wants to ski these areas to duck the rope and do it!!!
if its forest service land "off piste" than you have every right to access it regardless of financial status.
there's nothing worse than hearing some rich bitch from New York rave about backcountry skiing

**The AD** · 12-11-2004, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by finsy

there's nothing worse than hearing some rich bitch from New York rave about backcountry skiing

I don't know. It's sort of a toss-up between that and hearing someone who gets to ski 100 days a year bitch about the rich bitch poaching "their stash."

JR · 12-11-2004, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by finsy

just in time for the holidays any rich prick with a wad of cash can access what was once "local stash". we sould not be surprised, with the increase in the popularity of the "backcountry" experience why would'nt ski area capitalize on the trend. just another reason why ski resorts should be avoided all together!

Nothing new here folks. This has been going on in Canada for years. Everyone has this impression of Canada as a vast open wasteland with lots to go around. What they forget is that 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100 km of the Canada-USA border, and only about 8% of that 100 km strip is worthy of skiing.

Here the scourge is Cat-ski operations taking over the backcountry and creating situations similar to what exists with Wasatch Powder Guides. Coincidentally, the vast majority of new cat-ski starts in BC over the last five years are by Americans. Some like Balface are complete assholes while others like Valhalla are open to input and sensitive to the concerns of locals. You'll never do anything about human nature. The Jeff and Paula Pensiero's, the Jim Fraps of the world will always be selfish pricks who will do whatever it takes to get what they want. The Lindsay Hoyts and Martin Keyserlingks of the world will be open to discussion and operate with a win-win attitude. This will never change. There is an asshole born every minute.

Personally, I've skied a total of 3 or 4 days at hills over the last dozen years and that only because my dad bought the tickets and it was a good way to go and shred with him and my neices and nephews. Otherwise, they really have nothing to offer me.

I'm quite fond of the "Loose lips sink ships" motto. When asked where I have been skiing, I say Kootenay Pass, Whitewater backcountry or anywhere else that everyone knows about.

I REALLY hope this is just a fad but I think I may be wrong. Over the last 25 years of ski touring I have done, the last 10 years have seen a steady increase, with the last 4 or 5 being a rapid increase. The recent dramatic increase has been amongst a group of (generally) young punk, wannabe, spoiled brats who I truly wish would just piss off. Perhaps when enough of them end up in body bags, they will look for the next latest, greatest fad. We can always hope.

**The Suit** · 12-11-2004, 07:45 PM

I guess I have a different perspective - at least about the Jackson Hole guiding operation.

On a powder day, you'll find that many - maybe most - of the guides are employed by locals. No, not the working-two-jobs ski bum locals, but folks who have done well in Jackson, or elsewhere, and decided living in a mountain town and skiing/climbing/hiking/etc is more important than the big city rat race. Being one of those people, I'm sympathetic. As far as I can tell, the guides genuinely like most of us, and enjoy skiing with us.

The other big group of "guidees" tend to be city dwellers who haven't yet managed to escape to a mountain town full time, but love skiing, love Jackson Hole, and like the comfort and safety margin of skiing in the backcountry with a guide, rather than finding their own way. I don't know Hannah Swett, but I'm guessing she's in that group. I skied with a couple of off-duty guides this morning and the article became a topic of discussion. They both know Hannah and seem to think she's good folk.

Another group of "guidees" is skiers (maggots, even) who put in most of their ski time in a place that doesn't have a bunch of avalanche-prone backcountry, who don't own probe/shovel/beacon, and wouldn't know how to use them if they did. They hire a guide to get a safe intro to the JH backcountry, and I have a lot more respect for those people than I do for the true gapers who head out the backcountry access gates alone, with no gear, on a high-hazard day.

We've got world-class backcountry guides here in Jackson. Quite a few of them do analogous work in the summer, as climbing guides for Exum, or heli-guide in Alaska in the spring. I'm happy to help keep them employed.

**Benny Profane** · 12-11-2004, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by The Suit

I guess I have a different perspective - at least about the Jackson Hole guiding operation.

On a powder day, you'll find that many - maybe most - of the guides are employed by locals. No, not the working-two-jobs ski bum locals, but folks who have done well in Jackson, or elsewhere, and decided living in a mountain town and skiing/climbing/hiking/etc is more important than the big city rat race. Being one of those people, I'm sympathetic. As far as I can tell, the guides genuinely like most of us, and enjoy skiing with us.

The other big group of "guidees" tend to be city dwellers who haven't yet managed to escape to a mountain town full time, but love skiing, love Jackson Hole, and like the comfort and safety margin of skiing in the backcountry with a guide, rather than finding their own way. I don't know Hannah Swett, but I'm guessing she's in that group. I skied with a couple of off-duty guides this morning and the article became a topic of discussion. They both know Hannah and seem to think she's good folk.

Another group of "guidees" is skiers (maggots, even) who put in most of their ski time in a place that doesn't have a bunch of avalanche-prone backcountry, who don't own probe/shovel/beacon, and wouldn't know how to use them if they did. They hire a guide to get a safe intro to the JH backcountry, and I have a lot more respect for those people than I do for the true gapers who head out the backcountry access gates alone, with no gear, on a high-hazard day.

We've got world-class backcountry guides here in Jackson. Quite a few of them do analogous work in the summer, as climbing guides for Exum, or heli-guide in Alaska in the spring. I'm happy to help keep them employed.

Thanx for the post. It gave me the balls to respond to the troubling machismo above. Machismo that results in problems well documented elsewhere here. Like "I almost got killed in an Avi and I live here or do it a lot. pheww, here's my tale."

I'm an Easterner. I spend my valuable vacation time and stolen retirement funds to ski out west one to two weeks a year. Some know me here as a resident of Summit County, CO., for a season on sabbatical from my job, when I skied every day in bounds. I consider myself a pretty good powder skier, all else practice. I don't want to die in an avi - falling skyscraper or fast car maybe , but avis scare me. And I don't understand how to know the comfy zone - I watched almost certain to go slopes not even budged by bombs and a few days later, skied next to fresh rocky debris on the East Wall. And, sadly, might have watched happy stoned kids hike to their death zone off a chair a few days after that.

Sooooo....what's wrong with a guide? It's like hiring a friend or local or [ahem] for a day, but why not look at it like insurance? Hey, he/ she could easily be as much a trust funded x gulping alky asshole as the yuppies spit on above. Or could be well worth the bucks. You know, this is a friggin profession in Europe: "Hey Franz, read my big fat American pig lips - P O W D E R! ok?!"

Why not here?

**trainnvain** · 12-11-2004, 09:20 PM

Now Hannah Swett's sister Ivana, she's a different story! Whew!

**slippy** · 12-13-2004, 09:18 PM

I was at Telluride this weekend. Those areas they guide to are small, wide open pitches right above the ski area runs. So it's not really bc runs at all.

**ak_powder_monkey** · 12-13-2004, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Arnold Pants

$495 buys a guide for a day to accompany up to five skiers.

Isn't guided heli skiing ~$700 per day, why not pony up the extra cash?

**seldon** · 12-13-2004, 10:17 PM

AKPM,
Guide: $495/5 people ~= $100 per person per day.
Heliskiing: $600/1 person = $600 per person per day.

**Mountain Junkie** · 12-13-2004, 10:46 PM

I see dangerous ramifications of the "pay more to play better" policy adopted by many ski areas. Seems like this is becoming fairly pervasive at many ski areas, ableit in different forms. Just when you thought ticket prices are expensive enough, you realize you are getting second rate access for your hard earned money. All on your public land.