Hep me! (ski photos)

[The Suit]

Lately I've been trying to take ski photos a rangefinder camera, which is pretty much manual everything, and for which I have only a fixed 50 mm lens.

I would like to get better at taking ski photos with this camera. I'd love some feedback/advice/tips on the photos below. For those who are feeling generous with their time, there are plenty more to critique here.

[crackboy]

i think the immediate thing that pops out to me is that you need better positioning of yourself in relation to the skiier.
i think that would help as the better shots you posted are wher eyou are either positioned right on their turn or more in the fall line.

[outabounds]

Get the skier in the yellow pants to lean back more.

[Tippster]

Pre-focus (duh)

Use a hand-held meter

Get an Auxiliary viewfinder that pops into your flash hotshoe for framing. They make various models for different focal lengths, but all are <50mm AFAIK.

Here's one for a 35mm lens... [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Voigtlander-Metal-Brightline-Viewfinder-Black/dp/B000TDZMXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1295210245&sr =1-1"]Amazon.com: Voigtlander Metal Brightline Viewfinder for the 35mm Lens, Black.: Electronics[/ame]

[The Suit]

Pre-focus (duh)

Any tips on how to do so better? My ski models aren't very reliable, so I have a hard time guessing where I should be expecting to take the picture.

Use a hand-held meter

Get an Auxiliary viewfinder that pops into your flash hotshoe for framing. They make various models for different focal lengths, but all are <50mm AFAIK.

How do these two things help? Are there specific things you see in my photos that make you suggest them?

[mwthomsen]

Not specific to this camera set-up, but you could improve your images through better composition. Two pictures actually catch my eye the gal hiking #3 and the close-up in the yellow jacket #8 (even though the focus is off) I still like it kind of gives it a feeling of movement. I would suggest cropping some of your images differently to see how that affects the feeling of your pictures utilizing the rule of thirds. I think #6 & 9 would improve dramatically if both subjects where skiing into and down the frame rather than being so centered.

[Hugh Conway]

don't shoot ski action with a Leica and a 50mm. Wider or longer. 90mm f4's are cheap. Wider.. not so much.

alternately, change composition. With the same FL, #4-6 might have been more interesting with a skier in the corner of the frame instead of dead center; with a manual focus camera that's not so difficult to accomplish.

[Tippster]

Any tips on how to do so better? My ski models aren't very reliable, so I have a hard time guessing where I should be expecting to take the picture.

Prefocus on a spot where you want to take the picture and tell your "talent" where to go/turn. Use a small aperture to give you more DoF and you should be set if they miss the mark by a couple feet.

How do these two things help? Are there specific things you see in my photos that make you suggest them?

Generally speaking:

They are far easier to look through than the built in rangefinder window, so you can concentrate on composition - the main issue mentioned so far in this thread. Follow the skier as they are moving, don't keep your camera still and click when they hit the frame. This lowers their relative movement within the frame and you're less likely to get motion blur.

I would also try to have the skier come at me, pre-focus on a spot and click when they hit the mark. Shooting people skiing by is a lot harder to compose nicely IMHO. Then again I'm no expert - would defer to AB, Midget, Grant etc. for real ski action shooting tips.

From your pix it seems that's what you're doing anyway, so just keep practicing.

[BurnHard]

I don't know if you've ever posted other work so don't take what I say as an attack to your photography in general While the others are focusing primarily on helping you in 'technical' terms, I think you need a different approach to help your photography.

Your composition is awful. That's the single-most important 'issue' in the photos you've posted above. None of the 'action' shots would be significantly better if you had managed to get the skier where you wanted him to be. The shots look like point & shoots, with not much creative thought put into them. It's not a technical problem, it's not about focusing right or getting the skier to do what you want him to do, rather it's a thought process that you're missing IMHO.

What can you change? Hmmmm, critiquing is easy, constructively helping is hard

- Think what you want the picture to convey. *Consciously* think about it before every shot.
- Think how you can make that picture convey those feelings/emotions. Speed? Blur it. Huge huck? Wide angle. Romantic mood? Underexpose, saturate, warm light... just my ideas, *you* have to develop your artistic style that defines those emotions & methods to achieve them.
- Use surrounding geometry in your image to help your composition. Trees that lead the eye to the skier, converging lines, ...
- TELL a story! Put various elements together that tell a story, about the subject or about what you had to go through as the photographer to get the shot, or about the mountain.
- Get the subject OFF CENTER
- Think, think, think. Before every picture, think hard about all those factors & more... how does the light help my goal? What does the color convey? Where is the light hitting hardest, how can I change that to suit me? etc.

I *HIGHLY* recommend this book:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Learning-See-Creatively-Composition-Photography/dp/0817441816/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1295371505&sr=8-13"]Amazon.com: Learning to See Creatively: Design, Color & Composition in Photography (Updated Edition) (9780817441814): Bryan Peterson: Books[/ame]

DO the exercises it recommends, you'll see a huge improvement in your photography!

[BurnHard]

This is another GREAT book:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Eye-Composition-Design-Digital/dp/0240809343/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1295448597&sr=8-2"]Amazon.com: The Photographer&#39;s Eye: Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos (9780240809342): Michael Freeman: Books[/ame]

Pulled it out of hiding last night after thinking about what I wrote.
This book is even better than the previous one at helping you create your own artistic/creative process. Suit, feel free to borrow my copy if you want.

[Fuzz]

This is another GREAT book:

Amazon.com: The Photographer's Eye: Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos (9780240809342): Michael Freeman: Books

+1. This book is awesome and helped rekindle my interest in photography by making me "see" differently/better.

[saaka!]

As some one suggested- framing would help a lot. Keep the skier out of the center of the frame. In a lot of those images if he was coming into the image with more space ahead, the image would be greatly improved.

Another problem you have is the people your shooting, it doesn't appear your going to be getting many amazing stlyed out epic pow shots with that group. Which is fine, I just say this because some one suggesting directing the skier for your photo, but they may not be the ideal group for that. There is fine line between ruining someones run for your photos and having an enjoyable run, especially if they hiked for it.

I'd learn to get quick with your focus ring and just let them ski.

Your timing looks to off in most, I'd also try to anticipate the best moment of the action/turn. Maybe have a look at how they ski with out the camera in hand first and look for there best 'moment' in the turn.

Also it may take a while to learn what your 50mm does best. Don't expect it to make a pretty photo every time. Some situations were just not made for the 50.

Otherwise I'd say your on the right track.

[The Suit]

Thanks everyone. Lots of stuff here for me to think about. Books are ordered!

With the same FL, #4-6 might have been more interesting with a skier in the corner of the frame instead of dead center

I tried changing a couple of the crops to move the skier from the center. Do they seem better (or worse) to anyone?

Before:

After:




Before:

After:

don't shoot ski action with a Leica and a 50mm. Wider or longer. 90mm f4's are cheap. Wider.. not so much.

I have a big 'ol SLR that I can use, but I rarely bring it with me because it's big & heavy, and extra work to extract from a backpack. The Leica/50mm lens is small enough that I'm fine skiing with it every day, and I can get it out and be ready to shoot in just a few seconds. I'm not sure if that would still be true with a 90mm.

[cmor]

I think they do look better.

Try shooting shutter priority at 1/1000 to reliably freeze up the action. For most of your photos you would be around f7.1 1/1000 iso 400.

[The AD]

A Leica M9? You owe it to that camera to take some good photos!

[pointedem]

beside the basic technicals, the one thing that will give you better ski photos is dynamic light. Use the environment to help your comps- through trees, laying in the snow, skier underneath you, ect ect.

[truth]

I have a big 'ol SLR that I can use, but I rarely bring it with me because it's big & heavy, and extra work to extract from a backpack. .

Just hire a sherpa.

[Hugh Conway]

I'm not sure if that would still be true with a 90mm.

Not sure which 50mm you have, the Elmarit is ~3" or so, a little more than 1.25" longer than the Summi... best thing about the leica was how small and light the lenses were compared to a SLR.

Thought the pictures looked better after the recrop.

[4-TEEF'S Ghost]

Suit.

It's a 50mm. Most of what you shoot is going to look boooooooring if you don't learn to push it a little.

The 50mm focal length can "look" like a wide angle and/or a normal lens and/or a short tele. It's all in how you shoot it and frame everything up. Get low. Get high. Get really close. Get a little less close. Work that fucking thing!

Pad your focus by stopping down a bit (f8-f11) and push your ISO to get a minimum of 500/sec shutter speed (faster if you have the light. If the leica has focus distance marks on the lens then use them to focus.

The timing is just a little off in almost every shot. Work on that. Do a few shots where the skier comes straight down the hill at you and you grab one frame per turn. Then you can critique your timing later and find the rythm that works for you.

I wouldn't worry about composition in the action shots for now. Cropping in post will work in the short term. Learn your lens and get better technically and then you can work on composition.

[The Suit]

I just got back from nine days in BC. The books were on my doorstep when I got home last night, so I haven't done all that learnin' yet. Here are a few of my favorites from the trip. Thanks for all the help so far. More comments welcome!

[The AD]

I think you're getting the hang of it. Nice shots!

[Lonnie]

1, 5, and 7 (altho that last one could be helped with a bit of a crop). Nice.

[leftfield]

stokeworthy

[BurnHard]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE improvement, congrats!
Seriously you just made the leap from occasional P&S snapshooter to apprentice photographer.

1 & 6 are full of win.
The others are ok.

The helicopter shot I would've liked to see a lot more surroundings, less focus on the helicopter. That's just a creative choice IMO. As a picture of a helicopter it doesn't do a good job, IMHO it's meant to say "Heli Skiing" or something similar, which would be much better conveyed but less zoom on the helicopter itself and a wider view of the surrounding snow/mountains/slopes... As it is, I look at the photo and I have this unresolved anxiety: what's above & below the helicopter?

[Crystal_Mt_Dreamin]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE improvement, congrats!

THAT. 11100% agree.