Marker Tour F12 Major Failure

**nicks** · 01-11-2011, 05:47 PM

Just to report a similar F12 failing as to the one by Verbs. Fourth day of new F12 binding. Left binding/ toe piece broke off while in touring mode and while falling forward. The accompanying guide couldn't believe his eyes. Luckily only a day tour and I somehow managed to get down the mountain. I received an immediate refund from the shop where I had purchased the binding.

**squirrelmurphy** · 01-11-2011, 05:52 PM

FWIW I broke two Dynafit Comfort toe plates doing the same thing. Can't imagine its good for any binding to fall forward like that.

**Matty_S** · 01-11-2011, 05:57 PM

We had a guy at our shop step into his bindings for the first time at the mountain and the toe piece snapped off exactly like that. I was a little worried about how flimsy these were gonna be, but im surprised they are breaking so easy.

**1000-oaks** · 01-11-2011, 08:54 PM

Is there enough room between the baseplate pivot and the toe to expoxy a carefully formed strip of thin stainless shim stock about four or five inches long, for reinforcement prior to breakage? Hard to tell in the photo, but is there also a void in that area that could be filled with fiberglass-filled epoxy to help reinforce it from the inside?

Of course Marker needs to beef up this area, but for those who already have the bindings such a reinforcement may help get more days out of the bindings while a new base plate is being developed.

I think I'll put off ordering my F12s for awhile, lol.

**Micol** · 01-11-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

The term "knee fall" was established years before the term "peeps."

Peep peep
Attachment 88723

**verbs** · 01-12-2011, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by nicks

Just to report a similar F12 failing as to the one by Verbs. Fourth day of new F12 binding. Left binding/ toe piece broke off while in touring mode and while falling forward. The accompanying guide couldn't believe his eyes. Luckily only a day tour and I somehow managed to get down the mountain. I received an immediate refund from the shop where I had purchased the binding.

There's obviously a serious design issue with this binding! nicks, good to hear you got a full refund, I'm still waiting for a replacement part, which is all that Marker have offered!!!

Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy

FWIW I broke two Dynafit Comfort toe plates doing the same thing. Can't imagine its good for any binding to fall forward like that.

I agree it's not the 'best' thing for any binding, however, the reality is this is going to happen in certain circumstances and the binding should not fail in this manner...........

**Sessiøn** · 01-12-2011, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by MiCol

Peep peep
Attachment 88723

**Sinecure** · 01-12-2011, 02:58 PM

Hmm. Concerning. Might have to do some in-resort skinning before taking mine someplace that would require a long slog out. I've done that knee-fall thing many times. Especially in spots where I should probably have crampons.

**marot729** · 01-12-2011, 03:18 PM

I notice that the 2011/12 F12 is 60 grams heavier... Anyone knows if they have fixed the above mentioned issue?

**nicks** · 01-12-2011, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy

FWIW I broke two Dynafit Comfort toe plates doing the same thing. Can't imagine its good for any binding to fall forward like that.

I spoke to a number of mountain guides after the incident and the consensus was that a binding should release in case of what is described here as a 'knee fall'...??

**GeezerSteve** · 01-12-2011, 06:13 PM

That doesn't make any sense. A knee fall happens in tour mode, and no binding is going to release vertically as a result of a knee fall. In tour mode a Dynafit toe is locked, i.e., not designed to release. There's no way a knee fall is going to generate enough force to release from a Fritschi/Marker/Naxo heel fixture.

The issue is whether a binding is designed not to be vulnerable to breakage as a result of a knee fall. Lou discusses this a bit in a few spots on his website. IME, Dynafits are not prone to breaking during a knee fall, but it appears that squirrel had a different experience. I don't recall ever taking a knee fall on AT gear so my experience is observing others.

**1000-oaks** · 01-12-2011, 09:50 PM

Seems like the toe pivot should be designed to have more than enough range for the skier to fall on the ski tips before the toe "bottoms out", so this levering never happens. Easier said than done I guess.

**verbs** · 01-13-2011, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by nicks

I spoke to a number of mountain guides after the incident and the consensus was that a binding should release in case of what is described here as a 'knee fall'...??

Originally Posted by Big Steve

That doesn't make any sense. A knee fall happens in tour mode, and no binding is going to release vertically as a result of a knee fall. In tour mode a Dynafit toe is locked, i.e., not designed to release. There's no way a knee fall is going to generate enough force to release from a Fritschi/Marker/Naxo heel fixture.

The issue is whether a binding is designed not to be vulnerable to breakage as a result of a knee fall. Lou discusses this a bit in a few spots on his website. IME, Dynafits are not prone to breaking during a knee fall, but it appears that squirrel had a different experience. I don't recall ever taking a knee fall on AT gear so my experience is observing others.

I agree that it's not necessarily practical for a binding to release in this type of situation, and question whether it's actually required anyway?

However, any binding should be designed to be "fit for purpose" and be robust enough during use that it does not fail........ Marker has a major durability issue with the F12/F10!!!

**Arno** · 01-13-2011, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

That doesn't make any sense. A knee fall happens in tour mode, and no binding is going to release vertically as a result of a knee fall. In tour mode a Dynafit toe is locked, i.e., not designed to release. There's no way a knee fall is going to generate enough force to release from a Fritschi/Marker/Naxo heel fixture.

The issue is whether a binding is designed not to be vulnerable to breakage as a result of a knee fall. Lou discusses this a bit in a few spots on his website. IME, Dynafits are not prone to breaking during a knee fall, but it appears that squirrel had a different experience. I don't recall ever taking a knee fall on AT gear so my experience is observing others.

i sometimes put on ski crampons without taking my boot out of dynafits which involves getting yourself into a similar position to that you would find yourself in after a knee fall. doesn't seem to put much stress on the binding - more on my knees! can see if you were also torqueing the binding it could be an issue

**Chugachjed** · 01-13-2011, 10:56 AM

FWIW I've taken a couple knee falls on Dynafits and the toe of my boot has pushed down the tour lock and I've released. Not every time I knee fall hacking about but in the bad ones.

**toast2266** · 01-13-2011, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Chugachjed

FWIW I've taken a couple knee falls on Dynafits and the toe of my boot has pushed down the tour lock and I've released. Not every time I knee fall hacking about but in the bad ones.

It seems that the knee fall issue with dynafits really depends on your boots. Mine (DB viruses) scrape across the binding when rotated into "knee fall" position, but not enough to stress anything badly. I could see other boots that have a little more plastic in front of the inserts having issues with clearance.

**johngenx** · 01-13-2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chugachjed

FWIW I've taken a couple knee falls on Dynafits and the toe of my boot has pushed down the tour lock and I've released. Not every time I knee fall hacking about but in the bad ones.

Me too. The toe of my boot pushes down the toe lever, releasing the binding. No damage. Garmont Mergarides in TLT STs.

**dravis9000** · 01-13-2011, 02:58 PM

just got brand new griffons for my girl, when i unziped the cable on one of the binding heels,the brakes blew off the the thing . i was not fast, lazy, or stupid about the packaging they were shot from the start screws stripped out. the shitty plastic threads in hand. shop says marker sold out. NEVER again.
why do i have to glue these to save face on the womans season.
not willing to wait for a solution in the spring .[ if ever]

**blackgriffen_1** · 01-13-2011, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by johngenx

Me too. The toe of my boot pushes down the toe lever, releasing the binding. No damage. Garmont Mergarides in TLT STs.

IME I haven't ever had my MegaRides get forward enough to push down the touring lever (pics please???) but I've definitely knee-fallen and the resulting ejection was great fodder for the skinning group. Never released falling directly forward, but any lateral torsion pops the baby free right away. Vertical ST's, for reference.
Hijack, sorry.

**Pat** · 01-13-2011, 07:41 PM

Awesome thread, everyone. If it weren't for this I'd have Tours being shipped to me right now. Went Baron again instead. Maybe next season I'll trade them in for the improved <crosses fingers> Tours.
Cheers!

**altimusrust** · 01-16-2011, 07:20 PM

this was an obvious flaw from the get go. too much plastic, not enough range of toe movement in the tour mode. never buy marker products the first year they are released. give them a season or two and they'll have this under control.

**XtrPickels** · 01-16-2011, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy

FWIW I broke two Dynafit Comfort toe plates doing the same thing. Can't imagine its good for any binding to fall forward like that.

as an n=1, I kneefell'd on an NX21 and had no issues. I felt the binding had a bit more range of motion and didn't bottom out.

**johngenx** · 01-16-2011, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1

IME I haven't ever had my MegaRides get forward enough to push down the touring lever (pics please???) but I've definitely knee-fallen and the resulting ejection was great fodder for the skinning group. Never released falling directly forward, but any lateral torsion pops the baby free right away. Vertical ST's, for reference.
Hijack, sorry.

I was skinning straight up a steep constriction and I slipped. Didn't see exactly what happened, but I was far forward with my right boot as far forward as possible. My ski popped and I grabbed it, hoping like hell the binding was okay as I was a long way from the car. Sure enough, the lever was down in "ski" mode, pushed there by my boot.