Telemark skiing is dead.

[chicken feathers]

...photoshop some alpine binders over those tele traps so we can end this thread.

So what?

[Danno]

The struggle is real. You know talking shit in a tele thread is kind of like tele skiing. Certainly more efficient ways to do things but we keep coming back.

truth

[frorider]

I replaced them with T1's eventually but still held onto them until a couple years ago. Was that a mistake, are they actually worth something? In any case, I don't think any subsequent telemark gear I had ever equaled the performance of the Extreme Pros and the cable bindings. The T1's were okay because at least they still had the duckbill. As soon as NTN came along and the duckbill went away, that's when you started noticing how much most telemarkers look off balance and wobbly. They're high centered with their boots like 1.5 inches off the ski. You can't drive your turn when you're boot is that high off the ski. I saw NTN gear ruin the skiing of several friends who used to be tele rippers. Never tried it myself, just an observation.

NTN freeride bindings are the tallish ones you’re thinking of. Plenty of people absolutely ripping shit up on them. The more accessible NTN binding is the Freedom, and stack height on those is low...the smoother, more linear feel is very similar to the Lynx binding.

Btw you do realize the entire alpine and tele race world is predicated on the edging power of risers right?

I stopped worrying yrs ago about the endless predictions of the death of tele. I see 15-25 yr olds all the damn time ripping around the resorts in OR/WA/UT/CO/CA on tele. It’ll never be mainstream but, like snowboarding, it’ll never die off. The turn just feels different than alpine.

I do wish Scarpa would release that modern tele boot that has the stiffness:weight ratio of typical AT boots so that the Lynx can actually be used as intended.

[XXX-er]

NTN freeride bindings are the tallish ones you’re thinking of. Plenty of people absolutely ripping shit up on them. The more accessible NTN binding is the Freedom, and stack height on those is low...the smoother, more linear feel is very similar to the Lynx binding.

Btw you do realize the entire alpine and tele race world is predicated on the edging power of risers right? .

I get nose bleeds from risers that are too high

but seriously yeah the racers use risers, I believe there are even rules limiting how high they can make the risers , they wouldnt use risers if they didnt work

I put a 25mm G 3 riser under a Riva II on a 67mm ski using leather double boots I couldn't tell the difference so i don't see how anybody can tell with a stiff plastic boot but if something gets repeated often enough it will become true

[Meadow Skipper]

The telemark industry has never really improved on the performance of the Asolo Extreme Pro boots and Chouinard cable bindings.

Attachment 367025

Attachment 367027

Bold statement.

Makes me want to dig out my Extremes and Iggys with Superloops...but I probably won’t.

[yeahman]

Bold statement.

Makes me want to dig out my Extremes and Iggys with Superloops...but I probably won’t.

I know, I'm full of shit. lol

But I'd put 25-year-old self on that gear up against just about anybody I see telemarking these days on the new stuff. I'm probably misremembering how good I was. I feel like there used to be a lot of ripping tele skiers, now maybe one in ten is truly making it look like tele is capable of slaying anything. I see a lot of upright, awkward wobbling. Am I wrong? Probably.

[jmedslc]

I know, I'm full of shit. lol

But I'd put 25-year-old self on that gear up against just about anybody I see telemarking these days on the new stuff. I'm probably misremembering how good I was. I feel like there used to be a lot of ripping tele skiers, now maybe one in ten is truly making it look like tele is capable of slaying anything. I see a lot of upright, awkward wobbling. Am I wrong? Probably.

Yeah you’re completely wrong. Not really. But Watever just keep posting. It’s better that way.

[Conundrum]

Jmed-started on Targas. Spent a few years on Bombers. Moved to original Rott NTNs. Broke a few pair of those. Kept warranting and mis-matching until my tele days slowed down. Sold all of it cheap and then picked up some of the touring version on some viciks. Ski them a couple times a year. I do like tele but there’s plenty of ways to make a turn feel cool so I’ve just spent a bunch of time locked down. Haven’t tried the new generation of rad freeheel bindings. I bet they’re great.

[MCskid]

Excellent point! I stand corrected

Wrong. Squirt boating has a purpose, c-1ing is just handicapping yourself for no good reason, exactly like telemarking.

[MCskid]

Definitely another dimension but just like my old knees won't let me squat to ski any more my extreme inflexibility won't allow me to shoehorn into a squirt boat any more, thank the lord for this new half slice revolution!

One of the buds was also a world class C-1 paddler had to train for worlds with class 4 kayakers cuz it was so hard that no local one-bladers could paddle at that level but not so hard in a kayak, the one blade jokes were much like the telemark jokes, eventualy buddy quit competing & went 2 blade cuz it was so much easier

I never paddled squirt but I think of squirt as just another dimension ?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The only time I tele anymore is meadow skipping in powder. I like pins and a two buckle plastic boot paired with a softer, round flexing ski. That’s telemarking to me. Everyone has their jam though.


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[jmedslc]

Jmed-started on Targas. Spent a few years on Bombers. Moved to original Rott NTNs. Broke a few pair of those. Kept warranting and mis-matching until my tele days slowed down. Sold all of it cheap and then picked up some of the touring version on some viciks. Ski them a couple times a year. I do like tele but there’s plenty of ways to make a turn feel cool so I’ve just spent a bunch of time locked down. Haven’t tried the new generation of rad freeheel bindings. I bet they’re great.

Copy!

Yeah on the note of “ plenty of ways to make a turn feel cool” - I took out my 4frnt Renegades for that sleeper Storm on Thursday afternoon and was just slashing around to my hearts delight. For such a huge platform, The renegade really does make turns of all shapes and sizes and likes to go really fast like you’d imagine. Ahh skiing is fun!

[RootSkier]

Yeah you’re completely wrong. Not really. But Watever just keep posting. It’s better that way.

I actually think he's right. There are very few good tele skiers out there anymore, when 15 years ago, there were tons.

[bodywhomper]

Not pushing forward new boots is hurting the industry. Here’s one component, when a manufacturer decides to not change a boot for several years, a retail shop will watch for late spring deals or negotiate a deal to buy a large volume of boots at added discount that may last for several years. Then that retailer will string along the manufacturer/distributor and not pay off its balance (possibly until the large volume of boots are sold through multiple years later), using the distributor or manufacturer as a mid-term lender. This fucks cash flow for the manufacturer, distributor, and the reps, but at the same time, they want another big order from the retailer. It’s a shitty cycle. The coop often follows a variation of this, but after buying big, will reduce the breadth of stock over a few years time, so even if they sell through, they may not re-order because they’re reduce the volume of skus in their nordic/tele offerings.

[yeahman]

To me it seems the duckbill on the older boots (T1 for example, etc.) was what allowed tele skiers to really get down into the turn and drive the ski, then spring back out with some force and transition into the next turn. It actually helped with the springing motion of the turn. When the boots lost that, maybe they look cooler and more like AT, but they just don't seem to provide that helpful resistance on the way down and spring on the way back up. Couple that with the fact that the boot sole is now at least an inch or more elevated above the ski, and you've lost a lot of control of the ski. And the tight cable binding used to add a lot of torsional rigidity to the system all the way from the front to the back of the boot, which was a huge plus, but is lost with the NTN gear.

Dostie kind of gets it. In Defense of the Duckbill

[Bunion 2020]

I skied tele bindings and boots for about 8 years while patrolling (T-1s and O2s), I chose that setup because it was light and we hiked a lot. I sucked as a tele skier but could alpine turn any terrain, any snow.

On my staff I had maybe 10-15 folks that were some of the finest T-turning skiers I have ever seen, any conditions, any terrain, with a full pack, and not just getting around, ripping fall line turns, in control, non-stop. The women were freaking amazing skiers.

For whatever reason I see very few tele skiers anymore, probably because AT has gotten pretty good. Tele-skiing is not dead but certainly comatose, GCS of around 9 or 10.

[yeahman]

^^There are still a few patrollers at Big Sky on tele gear, as I'm sure you know. In fact I saw one coming down the Big Couloir the other day. Mostly doing tele turns with a few alpine thrown in when things got sketchy. First time I did the Couloir it was on tele gear, but, I must admit, I only made alpine turns. It was a hardpack day.

[Peruvian]

To me it seems the duckbill on the older boots (T1 for example, etc.) was what allowed tele skiers to really get down into the turn and drive the ski, then spring back out with some force and transition into the next turn. It actually helped with the springing motion of the turn. When the boots lost that, maybe they look cooler and more like AT, but they just don't seem to provide that helpful resistance on the way down and spring on the way back up. Couple that with the fact that the boot sole is now at least an inch or more elevated above the ski, and you've lost a lot of control of the ski. And the tight cable binding used to add a lot of torsional rigidity to the system all the way from the front to the back of the boot, which was a huge plus, but is lost with the NTN gear.

Dostie kind of gets it. In Defense of the Duckbill

Ahahahaha! Referencing a 7 year old article that pre-dates any of the various pin tech tele bindings.

This is why telemark is dying. Everyone still believes that the technology from 1993 was the pinnacle of “soul”.

[BCMtnHound]

I must say I really enjoy my TTS/speed turn2.0 with TX Pros for touring. I also love my leather wasatch duckbills for meadowskipping in either switchback X2 on metal edged XC, or on true skinnies with 3pin mountaineers. I must admit my mantras with older ntn freerides don't give that turn feeling so well, but are far more sympathetic to my old bush knees.

I keep looking at my forlorn T2X shells and think I should pass them along, but they are so RED, I just can't.

And I must wholeheartedly agree that tele chicks rock. So much so, I married one

[axebiker]

I skied tele bindings and boots for about 8 years while patrolling (T-1s and O2s), I chose that setup because it was light and we hiked a lot. I sucked as a tele skier but could alpine turn any terrain, any snow.

On my staff I had maybe 10-15 folks that were some of the finest T-turning skiers I have ever seen, any conditions, any terrain, with a full pack, and not just getting around, ripping fall line turns, in control, non-stop. The women were freaking amazing skiers.

For whatever reason I see very few tele skiers anymore, probably because AT has gotten pretty good. Tele-skiing is not dead but certainly comatose, GCS of around 9 or 10.

Seeing one of your MLB staff diving down under Line Tree lift, with pack and fully loaded toboggan, duckbill tele gear, is what made me take it up. Rippin skiers doesn’t scratch the surface of the skills of some of your former team!

I quit tele about 3 years ago due to knee pain, but had a great summer on the bike last year, and it really revived my old creaky knees. Got a new setup this year, and I’m finding that I actually feel less aches and pains after a day on tele than a half day on alpine. I just can’t do bumps on the damn things though...

[bodywhomper]

Ahahahaha! Referencing a 7 year old article that pre-dates any of the various pin tech tele bindings.

This is why telemark is dying. Everyone still believes that the technology from 1993 was the pinnacle of “soul”.

Agree.

The main developer of the chouinard cable binding was also the main developer of the Riva was also a developer of ntn was also scheming about an ntn/dyna toe binding was also scheming about something that looked similar to the atk tele binding. Those schemes were sketched out before 2002.

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[teledance]

Still love my 3-pin Hardwires work great with Mantras, and they hike too.

[ktnewcom]

When we stop talking about tele being dead then it'll be dead, but as long as there's old dudes out there shredding it then it's still very much alive

[snojones]

When we stop talking about tele being dead then it'll be dead, but as long as there's old dudes out there shredding it then it's still very much alive

Don't look now but there are still women absolutely shredding on tele skis. No schlong needed.

[Core Shot]

Don't look now but there are still women absolutely shredding on tele skis. No schlong needed.

By schlong, is that a euphemism for a lurk?