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  1. #26
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    ^^^^^^^^^
    jesus, that's a shitty post.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    There seams to be a common theme to a lot of these incidents of skier/snowboarder BC/slackcountry deaths. Guys taking there girlfriends into areas where they should only go with their male friends or super agro I charge harder than you badass skier chicks.

    1. This incident
    2. the couple last year at kicking horse
    3. the Tahoe chick

    All of them died because their boyfriends or husbands took them into terrain they had no business dropping into. I have no desire to date women that ski, that's me time, but why in the hell would you put someone you love into danger like that just so you can get your steep turns. Isn't that even more selfish than leaving your biotch at home?
    You are a supreme fucking douchebag.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    ... misogynistic ramblings ...
    I doubt many women have a desire to date you either.

    Were you there? Because I think you were suggesting you know how good a snowboarder this woman was, and that her boyfriend and not her made the decision to go cat skiing.

    I will also make a grand assumption and guess that you have never been cat skiing, since it is hardly dangerous except for freak accidents like this or an avalanche.

    Or maybe you're just a lousy skier in addition to being a dick?

  4. #29
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    "The group was on its last run Wednesday, around 3 p.m., when it stopped to discuss which routes the riders planned to take to their next checkpoint, said RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk"

    "The victim and her boyfriend opted to go through an area called Stovepipe."

    "It is very steep terrain, and it is known for its snow conditions"

  5. #30
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    That doesn't really indicate what her skill level was though, just that they opted to go into an area that is steep.

    Sad situation. Vibes.

  6. #31
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    "The victim hit a dip, which spun her around so she was facing uphill. She then fell backward and her upper body became submerged in snow."

    When my friends and I take their chicas into the BC we watch them like a hawk and always keep them below us and within site, this very same thing happened to a friend in the Kicking Horse BC on a trip a few years ago. I stayed up on the ridge and watched her drop in and saw what happened and rode down to her. Call me a chauvinist because I feel responsible for women and children that get in over their heads in the BC.

    Not that I'm saying chicks don't rip, many do, I know some European chicks up in Golden that can rip my head off. Anyway, I hope people stop getting killed in non avi deaths in the BC, too many avoidable deaths this year.

  7. #32
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    the last run of the day can suck - rip

  8. #33
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    So sorry to read this...vibes to friends and family.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    ... Guys taking there girlfriends into areas where they should only go with their male friends or super agro I charge harder than you badass skier chicks...
    Although the above statement is completely sexist and may not apply to this situation, this is a real problem. I think the statement should be changed to "People taking their friends into areas that they should only go into with other skiers/riders of the same ability".

    Just last weekend I was at Silverton and we had 3 people drop out of our group because the snow was too deep and the terrain was too steep. On the surface this seems like a total pussy move, but the reality is that these people did not feel confident and safe and they were intelligent enough to realize it before something bad happened to them. My wife is a solid skier, but she has no desire to put herself into a dangerous situation, so when I head out to Silverton or into the b/c, she stays at home and chills with the dog or heads to the resort with a less aggressive group.

    I think the lesson we can learn from this tragedy is to not ski alone.

    ++++Vibes to family and friends
    "That's what she said."

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    There seams to be a common theme to a lot of these incidents of skier/snowboarder BC/slackcountry deaths. Guys taking there girlfriends into areas where they should only go with their male friends or super agro I charge harder than you badass skier chicks.

    1. This incident
    2. the couple last year at kicking horse
    3. the Tahoe chick

    All of them died because their boyfriends or husbands took them into terrain they had no business dropping into. I have no desire to date women that ski, that's me time, but why in the hell would you put someone you love into danger like that just so you can get your steep turns. Isn't that even more selfish than leaving your biotch at home?
    You clearly don't know women in BC. The women skiers up there are not "taken" anywhere by their boyfriends, they get the goods themselves. They are fierce and competent athletes and your comment does the deceased a huge disservice and shows a true lack of respect.

    Vibes to her loved ones.

  11. #36
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    Condolences.

    Accidents, bad luck ,whatever you want to call it ,can happen to anybody at anytime.Being alive has inherent risks,& there will always be some risk,it can not be removed.Life's transient nature filled with risks are what make life so precious. No risk= not living. I don't know all the facts,but I can't see how Retallack or the TG guide are responsible anymore than if someone skied into a rock,tree ,etc. I hope that this tragedy doesn't lead to another one like making the skiing the equivalent of a hamburger in Canada,i.e. it must be cooked well done & can't be served any other way by law.
    Calmer than you dude

  12. #37
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    There are some really ignorant statements in this thread. I wouldn't go cat skiing for a resort experience nor would I go if I didn't have the skills to do so. The women I ski with choose when and where they want to ski and have the capability to do so.

    Unless you know the deceased personally, you don't have a lot of room making that statement. Of all the pro skiers who have died in the last couple years, would you say they don't have the ability to be where they were when shit went down?

    RIP. Real bummer to hear that what was probably a simple crash that we've all had at one point or another ended this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Well, I'm not allowed to delete this post, but, I can say, go fuck yourselves, everybody!

  13. #38
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    ++VIBES++

    Too much this year...

    It ain't a safe sport, but it's the sport I love.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  14. #39
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    Vibes to one of us all....

    you

    Retallack could be doing more to protect its skier/boarder clients.
    In high avy conditions, they do not bomb nor otherwise perform avy control.
    Then they lead their clients into the trees, which are not brush cut, not cleared of debris, nor in any way marked.

    Somehow, this lack of effort to manage the forest is sold as part of the appeal.
    and you
    All of them died because their boyfriends or husbands took them into terrain they had no business dropping into. I have no desire to date women that ski, that's me time, but why in the hell would you put someone you love into danger like that just so you can get your steep turns. Isn't that even more selfish than leaving your biotch at home?
    are actually retarded..

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    There seams to be a common theme to a lot of these incidents of skier/snowboarder BC/slackcountry deaths. Guys taking there girlfriends into areas where they should only go with their male friends or super agro I charge harder than you badass skier chicks.

    1. This incident
    2. the couple last year at kicking horse
    3. the Tahoe chick

    All of them died because their boyfriends or husbands took them into terrain they had no business dropping into. I have no desire to date women that ski, that's me time, but why in the hell would you put someone you love into danger like that just so you can get your steep turns. Isn't that even more selfish than leaving your biotch at home?
    Where's the thumbs down feature when you really need it?

    I took a tumble over the top last year on a just opened trail (inbounds) and ended up with my feet above my head, face down and still clicked in. My arms were pinned below me because of pole straps and my head was beneath the surface. Friends were only about 30yds below and saw me disappear from view, but had no idea the situation I was in.
    I floundered around and struggled to get my face/head above the surface. Luckily for me my head hadn't gone in too deep and it was only a matter of 10-20 seconds until I could breathe freely. It still scared the shit out of me. Even as a little kid, I would panic any time my face was covered against my will (wrestling with brothers, etc.), so I imagine this would be one of the worst possible ways for me to go. I'll take blunt force trauma over suffocation any day!
    Callous remarks like the one above dishonor the deceased. You have no idea her level of proficiency, or what she might have experienced in her passing. It gives me fucking chills and I can only hope her suffering was brief. Besides, it’s just as likely that she wouldn’t have let her boyfriend take the trip without her and keep all the goods to himself! Shit happens to “professionals” too; sometimes more so.
    Last edited by bendtheski; 01-04-2011 at 08:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  16. #41
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    Condolence to family and friends for their tragic loss.

    I have been to Retallack and the safety briefing that the guides conducted with our group was the most comprehensive and educational out of all the cat operations I have skied. The guides were fantastic and I always felt safe.

    I have also read the articles and there are a number of issues with what the articles report. I have skied Stovepipe and anyone who has been cat skiing knows that the below quote is wrong. This reads (at least in the articles) like the girl and her boyfriend decided take a different run then everyone else, like they had a choice...the guides tell you which run the entire group will down. This is not a ski resort where you can go down what ever run you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
    "The group was on its last run Wednesday, around 3 p.m., when it stopped to discuss which routes the riders planned to take to their next checkpoint, said RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk"

    "The victim and her boyfriend opted to go through an area called Stovepipe."

    "It is very steep terrain, and it is known for its snow conditions"
    It is also odd that the articles states that the TG, went to the bottom and then the group or boyfriend noticed the girl was missing. At every operation I have skied including Retallack the lead guide does a head count at the meeting spot and then radios up to the TG to come down after everyone is accounted for...if someone is missing that's when the TG does a sweep, looking for the missing skier. Unless they really screwed up, the TG would not have come down until the lead guide told him/her to come down after a head count.

    Nonetheless, it was tragic and my heart aches for the family and the people who have had to go through this experience. I don't think we have the whole story as of yet, so I would hold off on the criticism, especially if you don't know what you are talking about.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar2471 View Post
    It is also odd that the articles states that the TG, went to the bottom and then the group or boyfriend noticed the girl was missing. At every operation I have skied including Retallack the lead guide does a head count at the meeting spot and then radios up to the TG to come down after everyone is accounted for...if someone is missing that's when the TG does a sweep, looking for the missing skier. Unless they really screwed up, the TG would not have come down until the lead guide told him/her to come down after a head count.
    I thought that was weird too. Not placing any blame anywhere, but you'd think from a logic standpoint the lead guide would radio the tail guide to come down once all skiers/riders were accounted for or if too much time had passed and if one were still missing to start searching.

  18. #43
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    Pardon me if I seem more concerned with the future safety at Retallack (and other operations), instead of lamenting this tragic loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar2471 View Post

    I have been to Retallack and the safety briefing that the guides conducted with our group was the most comprehensive and educational out of all the cat operations I have skied.


    ...the guides tell you which run the entire group will down. This is not a ski resort where you can go down what ever run you want.



    At every operation I have skied including Retallack the lead guide does a head count at the meeting spot and then radios up to the TG to come down after everyone is accounted for...if someone is missing that's when the TG does a sweep, looking for the missing skier. Unless they really screwed up, the TG would not have come down until the lead guide told him/her to come down after a head count.

    I would hold off on the criticism, especially if you don't know what you are talking about.
    Oscar, you admit you don't know what you're talking about, yet you write like you do.
    With 20 posts in 2 years, I am amazed you found the time to read this thread and post in it.
    Furthermore, while you may have had your experience like you described, mine was much different.

    I too have skied Retallack, and no radios between guides were in play. No radios, no waiting TG at the top.
    (To be clear, radios between cats were in play.)

    The TG in our group was as lost as us a couple times, picking through the trees to the bottom.
    I led him (and others) out of one run because he had no idea where the lead guide went.
    Being ahead of the TG, I saw where the lead guide went, so I did my part.
    This brings me back to my point about brush clearing, and creating lines of sight (among other things).
    Lines of sight serve as a safety precaution, aside from making better and safer skiing.

    No clearing of the forest leaves a number of obstacles to catch a ski, or board.
    I won't speculate on this woman's death, because I do not know the details,
    but let's not ignore that fallen trees and other obstacles can grab skis and flip one over into the snow.
    Just because it may not have happened this way this time, does not eliminate the possibility of it happening in the future.
    I skied in fear of such an incident. Defensive skiing is necessary in such situations.

    Perhaps it's my Euro experiences that cause me to take issue with guides that let their flock out of sight.
    Hence, I would never say the guides at Retallack did a terrific job.
    They did the best job they could do given the circumstances they were placed in.
    The point of my post above is, the guides are compromised by clogged up wooded runs, and a lack of markings.
    Furthermore, on our day at Retallack, the av risk was so high, that we were confined to ski in the trees.

    On markings, and in response to the comments claiming my stupidity,
    allow me to roughly re-create my experience at Retallack.
    Guide: Ok, we are going to ski down there. Everyone ski one line to the left of the previous skier. Don't go too far to the left.
    Needless to say, I asked, where is too far? Is there a marker? Answer, no.

    And then there was a run when we were following the previous lines
    that led into a gully which ran off in the wrong direction, and eventually over a drop off.
    Fortunately, I bailed out of that gully, got my buddy out of there, and encouraged others to do the same.
    The unfortunate skier whose line led us into the gully dug his way out further down.
    No guides were in sight, and much like the postings going on here, no one was concerned over this.
    Perhaps it was considered part of "the allure."

    I agree that the initial search for the beacon and dig as a team briefing was very well done.
    Still, that does not excuse the lack of avy control, nor the lack of forest management.


    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    People are well aware of the terrain they are getting into when they come to Retallack. I'm sure the allure of this operation is the natural, complex terrain combined with super deep powder.

    I'm not trying to validate this death in any way, it's definitely a tragedy, my condolences to family and friends of this woman.
    The death is tragic.
    The tragedy is the continued mentality that everyone is doing everything right,
    and accepting this as just another blip on the screen.
    If you are so convinced that people "coming" to Retallack know what they are getting into,
    and also that it is part of the allure, then why not advertise it as such?
    Retallack. No avy control. No forest management.
    Add all the other stuff too, like Steep and Deep, etc.


    In spite of the criticism I have taken for my original post, my point stands,
    Retallack could be doing more to protect its skier/boarder clients.

    If they are posting here, like the above posters, then they should pull their heads out of the sand,
    and accept the criticism, intended to be constructive, and exact change to improve the safety (and satisfaction) of their clients.
    Ski, Bike, Climb.
    Resistence is futile.

  19. #44
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    Hey TeleAl, you know there is a place where they glade trees and clear downed logs. It's called in-bounds at the ski area.
    .....Visit my website. .....

    "a yin without a yang"

  20. #45
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    Are all swiss peeps OCD? I bet they do clean the forest.
    .....Visit my website. .....

    "a yin without a yang"

  21. #46
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    Al there will never be the kind of intensive forest management in BC (for the purpose of recreation) that would even come close to euro. Most if not all of the recreation tenures in BC are considered "nuisance" tenures by forestry. I doubt any have practicing foresters on retainer (not that a practicing forester would necessarily promote or sign off the kind of management that you seem to suggest even if there was money to complete it) and most probably only have forest management plans that target access - e.g. road beds - or consist of minor glading in higher elevation stands as lower elevation stands are likely managed by a forestry licensee (Canfor, Tolko, Westfraser etc.).

    As for the guides I do agree with you that there needs to be good communication, a competent sweeper and a lead guide with a good understanding of the terrain. It is the guides job to look after the guests, mitigate avi risk (by avoiding risky slopes - control in most tenures beyond an occasional bombing run or guide ski cutting will likely never be cost effective or realistic for Cat and heli operators in BC) and manage for snow over multiple days and through multiple groups when new snow is not in the forecast.

    The clients also have responsibilities as well. Ski where instructed and buddy up are the two important ones as well as the usual ski in control and watch out for hazards (cuz it is a forest). Lots of skiers don't quite understand how fast you can loose track of people especially if they don't whoop when in the trees. And if they don't tour I really doubt they have a concept of how long it can take to get back up slope to a partner if they get into trouble. (Granted that is what a sweep guide should be looking for but in the trees there is no way to see everyone all the time)


    Vibes to the friends and family.
    I don't work and I don't save, desperate women pay my way.

  22. #47
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    "Quote>This brings me back to my point about brush clearing, and creating lines of sight (among other things).
    Lines of sight serve as a safety precaution, aside from making better and safer skiing.

    No clearing of the forest leaves a number of obstacles to catch a ski, or board.
    I won't speculate on this woman's death, because I do not know the details,
    but let's not ignore that fallen trees and other obstacles can grab skis and flip one over into the snow.
    Just because it may not have happened this way this time, does not eliminate the possibility of it happening in the future.
    Just because it may not have happened this way this time, does not eliminate the possibility of it happening in the future.
    I skied in fear of such an incident. Defensive skiing is necessary in such situations."<Quote

    What? I'm amased that someone who's skied in Europe expects to have markings out of bounds.There are always hazzards under the snow,in bounds or out, off piste or on,groomed or untracked.I've only heli skied for a week(CMH),cat skied for a couple of days(SJCS,Monarch),& skied in Austria for a couple of weeks.I can't speak for anyone else's experiences, but I saw patrol once in 2 weeks in St. Anton.Someone had stacked up on the piste & they brought in a helicopter.I only heard them tossing charges on the upper mountain during the storm,never saw them skiing around. The area is massive,multiple times the size of Vail.The side country was not marked other than tracks, there weren't many boundry ropes,there was no clearing of brush or trimming of trees,& zero signs off the piste.You were on your own.I skied with a partner & full gear the entire time I was there.When I did the inter connect between St. Anton- Lech-Zurs-St, Christoff-St. Jacob,it was easy for the guide to keep an eye on us,it was all above tree line.My experiences cat & heli skiing were different, sometimes you could see the clearing in the valley where the chopper was other times you were on your own in the trees.No TG,only a lead guide.In the trees,you sometimes get separated from the others due to, well,the trees.

    There is no way of mitigating all risk,read the bumper sticker,ask Forrest Gump,it happens.Tragic though this is, I don't see a freak accident as being anyone's fault.There are dozens of examples of what could happen to you in life,whether it be lost on back roads,in a national park,at a ski area,whatever. There's always a chance when you hike,bike,ski,drive,fly,snorkle,boat,surf,swim,wal k in your house, that something can go wrong,whether there is a guide along or not isn't germane, it's life,& there is potential danger & hazzard everywhere.If an accident can happen to Doug Coombs,it can happen to anyone.

    "What in the hell do the damn Germans have to do with anything?"
    Calmer than you dude

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber Cop View Post
    Hey TeleAl, you know there is a place where they glade trees and clear downed logs. It's called in-bounds at the ski area.
    It never occured to me that a heli-ski ops might glade their tree runs but a local guy tells us he was on a glading crew at CMH for 5 seasons ,the helo would drop one crew at the top ,one crew in the middle and they work down hill ... the tree runs ARE gladed

    having a guy like this around is great cuz the tree skiing around here is really tight and buddy is all about openning up the back country


    I would agree DD is displaying an amazing lack of respect and showing us all what a large cock he has/is

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    It never occured to me that a heli-ski ops might glade their tree runs but a local guy tells us he was on a glading crew at CMH for 5 seasons ,the helo would drop one crew at the top ,one crew in the middle and they work down hill ... the tree runs ARE gladed
    weird, I did not know that. but I'm too poor to heli ski, or cat ski, so what do I know.
    .....Visit my website. .....

    "a yin without a yang"

  25. #50
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    Do any cat ski ops do avalanche control with explosives? Never heard of it before. Assumed it's just ski cutting and avoiding slopes in dangerous conditions. Some ops do glading, but to expect them to clear all hazards out is ridiculous, they have way too much terrain. Sucks what happened to the lady, probably an awkward fall in deep snow and bad luck that the TG didn't see her.

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