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  1. #801
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    1
    A local shop is carrying Plum Guide bindings that they've had for two years now. Has there been any significant improvements to this binding in that time?

  2. #802
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bern, CH
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by Corndigity View Post
    A local shop is carrying Plum Guide bindings that they've had for two years now. Has there been any significant improvements to this binding in that time?
    Enjoy JONGing your way through 33 pages of them

  3. #803
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    retired
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    12,482
    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Measured ramp angle in plum, vertical and radical. The two dynafit are identical (and I never had any issue skiing 'em), in the plum the toe is 3-4 mm lower than dynafit. It seriously affected my skiing.
    Marshal, i should de-drill the w99, add the riser and re-drill.. Any particular suggestion? Many grazie!
    F- I would just unscrew, add riser, re-glue, then screw back in taking care to only torque the screws enough so the screw bottarga the binding to the ski, so you won't strip the holes. Only need 4.5 Nm...

    I should add the plum has 15mm toe drop. I added 8mm height, for a 7mm toe drop. I could easily have gone for a 10mm spacer.

  4. #804
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,175
    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Measured ramp angle in plum, vertical and radical. The two dynafit are identical (and I never had any issue skiing 'em), in the plum the toe is 3-4 mm lower than dynafit. It seriously affected my skiing.
    I measured my first-generation Plum Guide at 2mm *less* delta than the Dynafit Vertical (and 2mm more delta than the Speed/Classic). Unless Plum has jacked up the heel unit pedestal since then, I don't see how you're measuring Guide as having more delta than the Vertical.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    I added 8mm height, for a 7mm toe drop.
    I added 6.35mm, but only because I already had some 1/4" SmallParts.com LDPE and length-compatible screws.
    I still have about ~6-7mm more delta on the Guide setup than my various rando race and near-race bindings, but I'm not sure I want screws that much longer going through both the binding and the shims...
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  5. #805
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,132
    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Measured ramp angle in plum, vertical and radical. The two dynafit are identical (and I never had any issue skiing 'em), in the plum the toe is 3-4 mm lower than dynafit.
    The heel is also lower in the Plum; as Jonathan notes the ramp is 17mm with the Vertical/Radical vs. 15mm for the Plum. According to my measurements the ramp is identical to the Speed Radical and less than the Radical ST/FT. Differences between the '11 Plum Guide and the '13 Plum Guide include revised, shorter toe lever with a slight curvature to it to avoid hitting boot toes, coarse thread attachment screws for the heel plate and a machined out slot/threaded hole in the front of the heel base plate to accept the Plum heel pad. Plum shows a toepiece riser that appears to be made of some sort of white plastic on their website, but doesn't give a height for it - the risers on the Yak are 8mm.

  6. #806
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    60
    Also not noted here:

    Two versions of guides exist in the market

    1) pre 2011 and post 2011

    A) upgrade in post 2011 products to pin diameter behind the boot point of contact ( internal pin diameter is ruffly 10% larger 5 mm to 5.5mm then to similar tapers) also the pin bushing was upgraded and making this a stronger interface between the top plate and polymer housing . This in not a model change just an inline upgrade. However the Plum pins are unique and other manufacture pins should not be substituted if service is ever needed.

    2) With regards the new lever a waterproof marine grease is now used on the lever at assembly. This area should be relubed with use. Like greasing a chain on a bicycle or moto. I use a marine grease but you could also use something like a lithium grease mixed 50/50 with a good wp grease like bellray (common motorcycle grease on my bench) or a Philwood bike grease). The important thing is just keeper lubed for easier action. If you start to feel this get stiff when you get home and are servicing your sticks re-grease your levers.

    3) Thanks Greg for noting ramp angle must be measured off heel pin height not rise of toe off the deck. Stack height is good for leverage but the closer to the deck makes it better for touring and also stability on steep verglase.

    I would also like to thank Marshal, Greg and Jonathon who have extensive knowledge with this product in the field as well as on the bench. Their constant posts on this thread are an asset to the understanding of this category and Plums product launch in North America this year.

  7. #807
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
    Posts
    4,813
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    F- I would just unscrew, add riser, re-glue, then screw back in taking care to only torque the screws enough so the screw bottarga the binding to the ski, so you won't strip the holes. Only need 4.5 Nm...

    I should add the plum has 15mm toe drop. I added 8mm height, for a 7mm toe drop. I could easily have gone for a 10mm spacer.
    Useful, thanks!

  8. #808
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
    Posts
    4,813
    Whatever you measure and call it... My plum (branded Look 12) has more toe drop of all the dynafits I've skied so far.
    I never thought it could have been an issue, but hey I was sort of shocked. Went back home, got a pair of other similar skis with vertical and realized how much a few mm can change the pleasure of skiing...

  9. #809
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2
    Definitely like the low stack height of Plums, I just wish they weren't so hard to get near me.

  10. #810
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    111
    For the guys not getting responses from Plum, try Ian at skian AT apexmountainproducts DOT com. He's the Plum North American director.

    I've shot him emails and get responses within 1-2 days. I even had an email from him New Years Eve while the offices were closed.

  11. #811
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,132
    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Whatever you measure and call it... My plum (branded Look 12) has more toe drop of all the dynafits I've skied so far.
    Not sure what you are measuring, but for lack of a better methodology, most people who care enough to measure these things compare the height of the toe pins above the ski deck (jaws closed) with the height of the heel pins above ski deck (center of pins), and call the difference the "ramp."

    Plum Guides I've measured (3 pairs) are 30mm and 45mm, for a "ramp" or "toe drop" of 15mm.
    Dynafit Comforts, Verticals and Radicals are 34mm and 51mm, for a ramp of 17mm.

  12. #812
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    60
    For those of you looking for dealers near you there is a dealer page for NA. It's not fancy just a referral to pro shops in North America stocking PLUM.
    The dealers on this page focus on this product and have good working knowledge of the system.
    Go to the pro shop locator
    apexmountainproductsdotcom
    The base is growing daily and as more proshops are added we will update the page. Buy local it helps keep good pro shops in pow towns.
    Skian

  13. #813
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
    Posts
    4,813
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Not sure what you are measuring, but for lack of a better methodology, most people who care enough to measure these things compare the height of the toe pins above the ski deck (jaws closed) with the height of the heel pins above ski deck (center of pins), and call the difference the "ramp."

    Plum Guides I've measured (3 pairs) are 30mm and 45mm, for a "ramp" or "toe drop" of 15mm.
    Dynafit Comforts, Verticals and Radicals are 34mm and 51mm, for a ramp of 17mm.
    Sorry I have different numbers. Same boot, toe drop measured with look branded plum (please note this), vertical and radical = more toe drop with look branded plum. On the other hand, yesterday I de-drilled the plum from the w99 and drilled some vertical. I skied better. Also please note that i have no commercial relationship at all with dynafit. Finally, before plum came I've never heard of people using toe riser for tech bindings, at least in the part of yurp where I ski.

  14. #814
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,132
    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    Sorry I have different numbers.
    Interesting - are we measuring the same thing? Hard to believe the Look-branded version is any different. FWIW, I've mounted a couple of setups with Comfort toe baseplates and Classic/Speed heels to try to flatten the ramp - people have been doing this for years with Dynafits in the US, and believe me we are "late adopters" in terms of tech bindings . . .

  15. #815
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
    Posts
    4,813
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Interesting - are we measuring the same thing? Hard to believe the Look-branded version is any different. FWIW, I've mounted a couple of setups with Comfort toe baseplates and Classic/Speed heels to try to flatten the ramp - people have been doing this for years with Dynafits in the US, and believe me we are "late adopters" in terms of tech bindings . . .
    I've measured the distance btw the soles and the ski, not the jaws/pins and the skis, dunno if it makes any difference...
    Anyway, I have two dynafit competence centers in a range of 300meters from home, gotta ask them how many toe risers have they mounted in the past 10 or so years. I personally do not remember any of those, but of course I might be grossily wrong. Said that, who cares. I did not like the feeling of skiing the plum and never had an issue with some 15 or so skis I've had with dynafits... But most of all, I've lost confidence after the prereleases I had.

  16. #816
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chamonix
    Posts
    937
    Binding delta is only one factor in overall ramp. The placement of the tech fittings on the boot plus the ramp built into the boot itself also contribute. All-out touring boots typically low-ramp and alpine boots are higher ramp. As for the new breed of tech-ready alpine-like boots, my guess is that they're more of an alpine ramp so tech setups using such boots would benefit from toe shims (pure speculation). I think Wild Snow commented that the Mercury/Vulcan is pretty low ramp though.

    I'm currently on Tecnica Bodacious for my alpine setups (two Salomons and a Jester) plus my touring ski (Plums) so it was very easy to compare the overall ramp between alpine and tech setups by measuring the distance of reference points marked at the toe and heel of the boot to the topsheet of the ski. Mounted flat (well, placed on the ski before drilling), the Plum setup had 6mm more overall ramp than a Salomon setup so I added 7mm Sollyfit toes to level them out. I have no concrete reasoning for this, I just figured I'd like to get my ramp pretty much the same between all setups.

  17. #817
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    retired
    Posts
    12,482
    agree with LC.

    for a long time you could only get dynafit boots or licensed tech, so all the AT boots had flat boot boards and upright cuffs to accommodate for the ramp in the binding itself. this is partially why so many AT boots skied like poo in frame and alpine bindings.

    now, enter AT boots with alpine style cuff angles and boot board angles, and all of a sudden the binding needs to get shimmed to ski right.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  18. #818
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    60
    +1 on this

    Quote Originally Posted by LC View Post
    Binding delta is only one factor in overall ramp. The placement of the tech fittings on the boot plus the ramp built into the boot itself also contribute. All-out touring boots typically low-ramp and alpine boots are higher ramp. As for the new breed of tech-ready alpine-like boots, my guess is that they're more of an alpine ramp so tech setups using such boots would benefit from toe shims (pure speculation). I think Wild Snow commented that the Mercury/Vulcan is pretty low ramp though.

    I'm currently on Tecnica Bodacious for my alpine setups (two Salomons and a Jester) plus my touring ski (Plums) so it was very easy to compare the overall ramp between alpine and tech setups by measuring the distance of reference points marked at the toe and heel of the boot to the topsheet of the ski. Mounted flat (well, placed on the ski before drilling), the Plum setup had 6mm more overall ramp than a Salomon setup so I added 7mm Sollyfit toes to level them out. I have no concrete reasoning for this, I just figured I'd like to get my ramp pretty much the same between all setups.

  19. #819
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,551
    Anybody have a pin slide out on their toe piece? See the red arrow below:



    This happened to the outer side of both two pieces. I didn't notice anything when skiing or skinning, but if left as it was I assume it would have eventually slipped out or bent. I hammered them back in place and assume that it's not a big deal. Just curious.

  20. #820
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,796
    It was discussed earlier in this thread I think? Or somewhere on tgr anyway.

  21. #821
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    228
    Thanks for pointing that out...I think I've only seen that a half dozen times in this thread alone...
    Life is all about ass...either you are covering it,
    kicking it, hauling it, kissing it, or trying to get it.

  22. #822
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,551
    Smiley, the thread is 33 pages long and searching with terms like "pins," which I tried, is virtually useless. I also skimmed through a few pages and didn't see the issue mentioned but figured it was somewhere here. If you happen to know offhand the answer or where in this thread I can find it, great. If you don't, no worries. But I don't think I'm imposing all that much on anyone's valuable internet time here.

  23. #823
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chamonix
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by AKbruin View Post
    Smiley, the thread is 33 pages long and searching with terms like "pins," which I tried, is virtually useless.
    Here's a four page version that you can search 8.25 times easier.

  24. #824
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    60
    This is an early gen toe piece. What many people did is push the pin back in. After you seat the pin you need to coin the hole with a punch slightly larger than the hole itself. By having a slight mushroom over the pin it shouldn't slip out anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by AKbruin View Post
    Smiley, the thread is 33 pages long and searching with terms like "pins," which I tried, is virtually useless. I also skimmed through a few pages and didn't see the issue mentioned but figured it was somewhere here. If you happen to know offhand the answer or where in this thread I can find it, great. If you don't, no worries. But I don't think I'm imposing all that much on anyone's valuable internet time here.

  25. #825
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    Thanks for pointing that out...I think I've only seen that a half dozen times in this thread alone...
    Wow look what I found and all by changing the search term!

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ng#post3506917
    Life is all about ass...either you are covering it,
    kicking it, hauling it, kissing it, or trying to get it.

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