This bike or that bike?! (trail/super D)

[Particle]

So I finally sold my Intense SS. Pretty much the best bike I've ever owned, except for two gripes: flexy rear end, and too heavy to be a true Super D crusher/long trail rider. I sold it to address those two issues, but moreso the second one - I'm racing more and more Super Ds, love em, but although I'm placing well for the most part, am getting crushed by the XC crossover dudes with huge lungs and great climbing legs. While fitness improvements could help, a 35 lb bike is still a pretty major boat anchor when trying to compete in a pedally race. Soooo... I'm stuck between a few (awesome) bikes.

Priorities are shredability - I heart DH carviness - and sprightly climbing prowess. Would really like the bike to be below the 30 lb mark. Frontrunners:

Ibis Mojo HD
Pivot Firebird
Carbon Nomad
Intense Tracer2 (not avail for a few months, bummer)

Honestly if I could have my choice of any bike, the Spec Enduro Pro carbon would be top of the list, but I don't have any more Specy deals and no way in hell am I paying retail.

So, anyone with ride time on the above bikes able to compare? I know, I hate compare-o threads too... but gotta do it. I have to admit I'm tempted by the sexiness of the carbon bikes (Ibis in particular)... but the alu Pivot would certainly be the most dependable rig. I just keep talking myself in circles, curious what yall think.

[Daywalker]

I'm looking for the same things, and had narrowed it down to the Mojo HD, Tracer 2, and Yeti ASR5. Only one I've been able to ride is the 5 and it was pretty sweet even all XC'd out with narrow bars and a 120 fork. Nothing to add but looking forward to the e-pinions.

[Alaskan Rover]

you don't mention your budget. I mean you could go $5000 or $7000 for a tight DH rig with all the bells and whistles and carbon up the ying yang. If you got the ying, you could get the yang.

Now it seems to me, somebody in your boat might want to look at building a rig from the frame on up, that way you get the bike you're looking for. I'd start with a decent all-carbon frame. Then just start building as you can afford it...pick and choose your disc brake equipment as to weight/price, same with the crankset, wheels etc. I saw a nice titanium crankset that would shave ounces but at a high price. Sure....in the end, going the component route will actually cost quite a bit more than just going out and plopping down $4000 for a decent DH bike or more, but you have the advantage of not paying in one lump sum....plus you have the added advantage of REALLY knowing every part on your bike when it's finally finished...be it Frankenstein's bride or your pride n joy. Them's just my two cents.

[hitek79]

I own a Al Nomad, but I'm of the opinion that you could buy any of those bikes and be perfectly happy on them. Analysis Paralysis is easy to run in to these days with the number of badass bikes on the market right now.

[InspectorGadget]

you don't mention your budget.

Deep pockets trump a budget.


Other than my snarky comment, I have nothing to add to this thread - though I can't help but think any of them would be meet your needs nicely.

[bagtagley]

I wouldn't buy an Intense, and I wasn't a fan of my Nomad. It had a lot going for it, no doubt, and the PUSH rockers could make it the holy grail, but (as-is) I don't think it's the right bike for Utah. I rode and liked the Firebird, but wasn't necessarily blown away. I still prefer my Spot to it, but that could be the homer in me.

So, get the Mojo. Light, solid geo, and it's tweakable with an Angleset.

[PeachesN'Cream]

I <3 Bag's sloppy seconds Nomad.
They can be had pretty cheep and can be built reasonably light yet still tough. Still don't get why they aren't more liked, but whatever. I'm happy with mine and probably won't be changing up for another year or two.

That said,
Seems like the HD would be the ultra SuperD bike. Get the 140 link and smaller shock, and run an air fork that you can internally travel adjust — hello light multi-setup bliss.

Keep us posted on what you decide on. Gonna be a sweet whip I'm sure.

[Particle]

Budget... ignore that for now. I ain't spending $7k on a retail new bike or anything, but I can get a few deals and have a decent chunk of change from selling my old bike.

Thanks for the honest answer bags. I have ridden otter's Firebird but he has it so DH'd out it's hard to tell how climb-worthy it'd be. Sick bike for sure though.

I've also pedaled a carbon Nomad around the parking lot. It felt... kinda tall and weird to me. But really hard to translate to trail without actually getting it on dirt. People rip on VPP but I loved it on my Intense. I rode a first gen Nomad and did not like it.

Definitely leaning towards the HD with 140 link and 160 air fork...

[joetron]

I'm loving my NomadC. Im running an rp23 and lyric 2step. It's taken a while to get set up right, but my last few rides have been magic. This is my first vpp bike and I'm learning that fork setup makes a huge difference on how the rear end performs. The bike is so unbelievably stiff, I basically commit to a line and the bike delivers more than I expected. It weighs in a touch over 30lbs with some heavy but good tires.

[pechelman]

i know exactly how you feel, but since i dont race, im still just willing to suffer on the SS

basically, what we want, i dont think it really exists yet...another reason im still choosing to just suffer on the climbs on the SS until what EXACTLY what i want comes out. (basically what i want is a new blur 4X)

possible options

maybe a carbon blur lt2 with a shorter rear shock?
but i dont like what it does to the seat angle
perhaps the closest one can get to a 4X without buying an old one
with my history of things breaking, i just wont trust buying a discontinued bike

maybe a banshee spitfire
i just dont like how the rear susp geo looks. would definitely want to ride before ever consider buying

cove hustler
a bit dated, but not a bad option. geo is pretty solid. rear end is nothing special imo, but its not bad. pedals well enough. super solid platform as well.

and im with you on the nomad
the one i pedaled around just felt really odd
tall, upright, short, and twitchy. felt weird
not sure what gen it was

edit
and i have no idea how spec bikes have evolved since i had my enduro, but i was pretty luke warm on the enduro. climbed ok, handled pretty great, but the rear end just felt soggy to me. i sold it to get the SS and the SS is a much more fun bike imo. ugh, i just love how the ss handles.

[Name Redacted]

Dude, I will totally sell you a Pitch pro for like $2500

[SubV]

Vote for the Pivot Firebird. Love mine, but I'm not a stand up and stomp rider, on this kind of bike especially. Favors the smooth rider, maintains momentum through chop very well, feels and climbs lighter than the scale proves. It's flexier than I'm accustomed to, but I came from pedaling a frankenstein bottlerocket which is roughly 1.5" less travel and has 1.5 lbs more aluminum in the frame. On the trail I don't complain about the flex but I ride at 165 lbs w camelbak.

Additionally, and very much in my humble opinion, the geometry of this frame seems to have a bigger "sweet spot" than most. By this I refer to the pocket where your body weight can be centered but the bike can still be ridden aggressively. I have a dropper seatpost but only drop it for extended downs or airtime. Contrasted with riding partners who have dropper posts and move them easily twice as often as I do.

[Empty Beer]

I'm an '06 Nomad owner... love the bike for all day technical rides and the Downieville Classic All-Mountain race. While at Mountain Bike Oregon this past August, I demo'd the Mojo HD and the Firebird, and I REALLY got to ride them. The HD was fantastic in all facets... stiff climber, nimble descender. The bike felt a little heavier than I thought it would, but not quite as heavy as my 32.5 lb Nomad. Rode it on the Bunchgrass trail, which is an absolute adventure with a little bit of everything on it. It rode like a champ.

The Firebird felt very similar to riding my Nomad. It was a great bike (other than the chain dropping frequently). I rode it HARD on the Alpine Trail (Super-D style). It felt more plush than the HD... much like my Nomad.

If I could have my Nomad, the HD or the Firebird, I'd choose the HD. However, a buddy that used to have an Al Nomad and now has the carbon Nomad (and who hits big stuff on it) recently told me to stop wasting my time and go with the carbon Nomad.





That's my

[PeachesN'Cream]

Reviews seem to lean the HD a little more toward the XC side and the NomadC more toward the DH side.

However, this is to be "The" Super D pinnonator bike. That slightly XC snappy feel from the HD seems like it would be rad. And being able to drop it to 140mm with the linkage and shock you could really get a range of setups out of this... Sorry, totally repeating my prior post.

[phatfreeheeler]

Too bad there is no where to ride right now. I'd send you out on my my XC'd up old RX. The frame is >8lbs with shock so I would not recommend it for your needs, but it's 30.2lbs and has taught me a lot about what makes me climb fast. That and taking tons of data while I ride. Overall bike weight is very over-rated, but still more important than geometry as long as you can extend the legs fully and sit reasonably comfortably. Here's my current order of importance...

1) Tire and wheel weight (really close with #2)
2) Rolling resistance of specific tire (really close with #1)
3) Suspension design (some suspensions just don't work well unless you sit and spin)
4) Overall bike weight (more important on tech climbs)
5) Overall travel (most suspensions do climb a bit better with less, or firmer travel)
6) Geometry (you can always adjust where your saddle sits in regards to the BB and bars)

I'd say none of these bikes would make or break you wining a race, but for goodness sake, build it right for your needs and maybe that means a race day setup of at least wheels and tires. Azonic Outlaw's are not a super D wheel unless the course has 30 foot gaps

[marshalolson]

do you want it to ride like a DH bike? or to win super d races?

if its the former, get something like the firebird, HD or whatever. adn be content that you will not be able to hang at a super d that has a good bit of pedaling.

if its the later, get a carbon trance-x or a carbon yeti 5, and put a RS revo 150 on it and some good wheels, and understand that while its a trail eating monster, it is not a DH bike.

[rideit]

Exactly. I ran the Trance X with a Van 36 and 205mm rotors at the Moab SD. It didn't help me win, (I didn't) but it was a great pedaler.

[Crampedon]

What size do you need?

[Dickeymotto]

If I were in your shoes, my Super D race choices would be:
Pivot Mach 5.7 (150mm fork, pretty sure this would be my first pick)
Cannondale Jekyll
Yeti 575 (new one)
Santa Cruz Blur LT or LTc (150mm or 160mm fork)
Giant Reign (not X)
Specialized Stumpjumper Evo
Ibis Mojo HD 140

68 is the new 67, at least I've been enjoying running a ~68-69 HTA on my Prophet much more then then 67. Kind of the best of both worlds IMO. Seems like a good middle ground would be good for Super D.

[lph]

Vote for the Pivot Firebird. Love mine, but I'm not a stand up and stomp rider, on this kind of bike especially. Favors the smooth rider, maintains momentum through chop very well, feels and climbs lighter than the scale proves. It's flexier than I'm accustomed to, but I came from pedaling a frankenstein bottlerocket which is roughly 1.5" less travel and has 1.5 lbs more aluminum in the frame. On the trail I don't complain about the flex but I ride at 165 lbs w camelbak.

SubV, the Pivot is flexy? How bad is it?

I am struggling with absolutely loving the Intense SS on the downhill and anywhere I don't have to pedal. It is not fun to climb on and even on the flats feels 'sluggish'. In my case I don't race but feel like it is time for a change.

Pivot Firebird was leading contender, but flexy? (then again, can't be as flexy as an intense or SC. )

[Particle]

do you want it to ride like a DH bike? or to win super d races?

I want it to win super d races. I don't need it to ride like a DH bike but I want to be able to ride it like a DH bike.

if its the former, get something like the firebird, HD or whatever. adn be content that you will not be able to hang at a super d that has a good bit of pedaling.

if its the later, get a carbon trance-x or a carbon yeti 5, and put a RS revo 150 on it and some good wheels, and understand that while its a trail eating monster, it is not a DH bike.

We are fortunate enough here in SLC to have easy access to a few super ds that are far more tech/abusing than your typical super d - in particular, Brian Head and Moab. So I want something that will pedal great and will be able to switch to burl mode for those races. And for awesome funtimes on Hazard/Porc, etc. So something lightweight but versatile. e.g., Krispy has a 2011 Reign with two setups - full coil and a bigger fork for the burl, full air and light wheels for the pedally smoov courses. I would love a carbon ASR5, but it would just get crushed on courses like Brian Head and wouldn't be much fun on Porc IMO.

What size do you need?

Medium

If I were in your shoes, my Super D race choices would be:
Pivot Mach 5.7 (150mm fork, pretty sure this would be my first pick)
Cannondale Jekyll
Yeti 575 (new one)
Santa Cruz Blur LT or LTc (150mm or 160mm fork)
Giant Reign (not X)
Specialized Stumpjumper Evo
Ibis Mojo HD 140

68 is the new 67, at least I've been enjoying running a ~68-69 HTA on my Prophet much more then then 67. Kind of the best of both worlds IMO. Seems like a good middle ground would be good for Super D.

Anyone ridden the new 575? I'm curious about it, but it's not all that light really.

As for the Pivot 5.7, looks awesome but I have been told that with my riding style I'd likely break the thing.

[bagtagley]

Pivot Firebird was leading contender, but flexy? (then again, can't be as flexy as an intense or SC. )

You really need to get some saddle time on a Spot before you decide. It's no DH bike, but I think you'd be surprised how capable it is, particularly with the recent geo changes.

[thebigeast]

i would put in a vote for the GT force carbon....i have seen some very reasonable prices around

[lph]

Bags, believe me, the new 5 spot is a bike I am going to be looking at as soon as my LBS gets them in the spring. In my case, I would likely be looking to build it up on the lighter side for some of the bigger/longer climb rides around tahoe. probably not as a replacement for the SS, but as a replacement for the horst link 5 spot i am currently on, which is still the best bike I have ever owned.

Yes, I will have 2 fairly similar bikes, but I am OK with that. I will build up one light and one heavy. given the amount I ride and the fact that I don't do too much bike repair myself, I have found that I need two bikes that can pedal in Tahoe if I want to ride 4 to 5 days/week.

[Particle]

Pivot Firebird was leading contender, but flexy? (then again, can't be as flexy as an intense or SC. )

I have a hard time believing this. I know the engineer for the Firebird, and every review I've seen has stated how amazingly stiff the frame is.