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  1. #7801
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    So I'm definitely not a battery expert, but I think there are other (cheaper) options out there similar to the optima. NAPA, O'reilly, and probably the other chains have house-branded batteries that are "deep cycle/starting" or "marine starting" and probably have similar specs.
    Anything labeled/marketed as a combination "deep cycle"/ trolling/ marine/ whatever *AND* as a starting battery is not a true deep cycle battery. However, for light use, it'll probably be fine.

    I still really like the route of 6V golf cart batteries installed in series (need multiples of 2, obviously). Big, heavy, tons of amp-hour reserve. I replaced mine this spring after 10 years of use on the old set. Cost is about $90 each at Costco.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  2. #7802
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    Dec 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenai View Post
    The Optima is unique in that it has deep cycle for slow draw, but still has CCA for the starter.
    Ok now we're getting some more info. Ideally you want to start motor every time so keeping your accessories off of the starting battery circuit is going to insure that. The first question is can the Jackery power the diesel heater AND the accessories? If it can't could you sell the existing Jackery and get a larger one that would?


    But to directly answer your comments:


    The Optima is not unique in any way. There are wet cells and AGM (which is what an Optima is) that are dual use - deep cycle and CCA. Deep cycle just means the battery stands up to repeated deep discharges; it doesn't mean that it can't go below the CCA needed to start a motor leaving you stranded.

    Bottom line is throwing $350 at any battery isn't really a proven solution. It's testing by trial and error. The cheapest way to run that test is buy the biggest sized dual use battery for as cheap as possible and save the rest of the money for jumper cables or an uber and a new battery when you're stranded if it doesn't work out. If it should happen to be ok then in 2 or 3 years you can replace it with a longer lived AGM.

  3. #7803
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    Jan 2009
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    Earlier in this thread someone posted about new ambulances that were being sold....can anyone lead me to that source. This search engine sucks the ballz


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  4. #7804
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    Nov 2010
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    Montrose, CO
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    Hopeless Sinner has a good point- those lithium jump packs have gotten pretty affordable and barely take up any space/weight to keep as a back-up.

  5. #7805
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    Mar 2014
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    7B Selkirks USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    Ok now we're getting some more info. Ideally you want to start motor every time so keeping your accessories off of the starting battery circuit is going to insure that. The first question is can the Jackery power the diesel heater AND the accessories? If it can't could you sell the existing Jackery and get a larger one that would?


    But to directly answer your comments:


    The Optima is not unique in any way. There are wet cells and AGM (which is what an Optima is) that are dual use - deep cycle and CCA. Deep cycle just means the battery stands up to repeated deep discharges; it doesn't mean that it can't go below the CCA needed to start a motor leaving you stranded.

    Bottom line is throwing $350 at any battery isn't really a proven solution. It's testing by trial and error. The cheapest way to run that test is buy the biggest sized dual use battery for as cheap as possible and save the rest of the money for jumper cables or an uber and a new battery when you're stranded if it doesn't work out. If it should happen to be ok then in 2 or 3 years you can replace it with a longer lived AGM.
    This. lot's of great data being thrown my way, but this seems to answer my question. It sounds like a dual purpose battery really doesn't give much of an advantage over a regular starter battery. But I challenge, if the marine batteries are used for starting the motor (cranking amps) AND for a slow drain (deep cycle) of a trawling motor, isn't that really what I am looking to do? Start the car in the winter but be able to use lights and usb during the PM. Are dual purpose batteries just good marketing or are they made for my purposes. The collective seems to say that they are just marketing..... yes?

  6. #7806
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    Dec 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    Hopeless Sinner has a good point- those lithium jump packs have gotten pretty affordable and barely take up any space/weight to keep as a back-up.
    He's using one already to power the diesel heater so he's comfortable with the technology and function which is important.

  7. #7807
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    Dec 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenai View Post
    This. lot's of great data being thrown my way, but this seems to answer my question. It sounds like a dual purpose battery really doesn't give much of an advantage over a regular starter battery. But I challenge, if the marine batteries are used for starting the motor (cranking amps) AND for a slow drain (deep cycle) of a trawling motor, isn't that really what I am looking to do? Start the car in the winter but be able to use lights and usb during the PM. Are dual purpose batteries just good marketing or are they made for my purposes. The collective seems to say that they are just marketing..... yes?
    No they're not marketing at all. Dual purpose batteries can serve 2 purposes but not both at the same time. A battery only has a fixed amount of power or Ah, using some power MAY reduce what's left to less than what's needed to start a motor, but a dual purpose battery is capable of being deeply discharged and fully recharged multiple times.

    A regular starting battery won't survive multiple deep discharges, it's meant to produce high power in short bursts-constantly recharged by the alternator. A dual purpose battery in a boat or a car w that's used infrequently and is completely discharged multiple times will handle that abuse and be able to start a motor once it's recharged. A true deep cycle only battery is for running a trolling motor or electric lawn mower that's intended to be completely discharged every time it's used.

  8. #7808
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    Nov 2010
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    Montrose, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    He's using one already to power the diesel heater so he's comfortable with the technology and function which is important.
    I overlooked that, can you use the jackery as a jump pack? May still be better to have something removed from the system completely though.

  9. #7809
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    Dec 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    I overlooked that, can you use the jackery as a jump pack? May still be better to have something removed from the system completely though.
    The diesel heater is not connected to the vehicle engine. The jackery and diesel heater is a completely independent system as it is. (I'm guessing by "the system" you mean the vehicle engine and starting battery.)

  10. #7810
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    Nov 2010
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    Montrose, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    The diesel heater is not connected to the vehicle engine. The jackery and diesel heater is a completely independent system as it is. (I'm guessing by "the system" you mean the vehicle engine and starting battery.)
    Yeah, what I meant by "the system" as the stuff you'd depend on. I know they are independent but if the diesel heater regularly drains the jackery, probably want another independent jump pack.

  11. #7811
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
    Posts
    9,562
    Optimas used to be awesome. Changed factories and QC a long time ago and now they are expensive and average. I'd look at a couple 6V AGMs for house. I replaced 2 4D AGMs which were huge, heavy, and expensive with 4 6Vs when I did solar and have have way more amp hours. I also have motor batteries so a different setup than you're looking at.

  12. #7812
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    Dec 2020
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    Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    Yeah, what I meant by "the system" as the stuff you'd depend on. I know they are independent but if the diesel heater regularly drains the jackery, probably want another independent jump pack.

    Or a single jackery w a larger capacity.

  13. #7813
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    Feb 2008
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    Udapimp
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    840
    have any mags out there sprung for lithium drop in replacements; battleborn has great warranty, but spendy.
    I like the idea of thousands of deep discharge cycles, the convenience of AGM mounting anywhere, need a solar controller with lithium mode though. want a setup separate from the class c house wiring which leaches my cheap AGMs to death in time for the 12mo free replacement.
    embrace the gape
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  14. #7814
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by b0ardski View Post
    have any mags out there sprung for lithium drop in replacements; battleborn has great warranty, but spendy.
    I like the idea of thousands of deep discharge cycles, the convenience of AGM mounting anywhere, need a solar controller with lithium mode though. want a setup separate from the class c house wiring which leaches my cheap AGMs to death in time for the 12mo free replacement.
    Have a battleborn in my trailer. Itís been solid. I looked around and there may have been options a few hundred cheaper but it was mostly direct from overseas and I questioned longevity. Lithium and Battleborn 10 yr warranty is the kind of brainlessness I want on a rv that sits until in service. I noticed pretty quickly the fast power up is neat compared to others regen time.

  15. #7815
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    Dec 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0ardski View Post
    have any mags out there sprung for lithium drop in replacements; battleborn has great warranty, but spendy.
    I like the idea of thousands of deep discharge cycles, the convenience of AGM mounting anywhere, need a solar controller with lithium mode though. want a setup separate from the class c house wiring which leaches my cheap AGMs to death in time for the 12mo free replacement.
    Really not clear on what you intend to power w the Lithium so it's hard to get an idea if they might be worthy of buying. To end tedious battery swapping perhaps a switch to isolate your batteries would eliminate the drain or add a built in battery charger or tender to keep them charged. I would think that should be done before buying lithiums.

    You mention the 1000's of recharges, and they're significantly lighter, but another important difference is you get ~90% of the Ah out of it at a steady discharge rate. Lead acid batteries have a declining output.

    I have been researching truck campers and lithium batteries for over a year and have the Battleborns spec'd on my build. Battleborn sells returned and rebuilt batteries on their webpage which can save you a few $$.

  16. #7816
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by b0ardski View Post
    have any mags out there sprung for lithium drop in replacements; battleborn has great warranty, but spendy.
    I like the idea of thousands of deep discharge cycles, the convenience of AGM mounting anywhere, need a solar controller with lithium mode though. want a setup separate from the class c house wiring which leaches my cheap AGMs to death in time for the 12mo free replacement.
    I went with a set of Lion LiFePO4, 100ah. I wired them in parallel but for some reason only one battery would charge / discharge. The other would lose potential across the terminals. I can't figure out why, whether it's faulty batteries or faulty wiring. If faulty wiring, I'm having difficulty understanding how it could totally ruin the battery like that. It's happened twice so far, but I got both batteries as a pair, so maybe they just had a bad batch or something...

  17. #7817
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    Feb 2008
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    thanks I was leaning towards splurging on the Battleborn for all those reasons plus you know,,,murica

    plan to have 2-100w panels on the rv and 2 100ah batts in a case w/prosine 2000w inverter built in for a portable solar generator to charge onewheels and ebikes. then I can always jack into the rv house system if necessary. Haven't looked into a lithium charge controller yet may just get it from battleborn.
    embrace the gape
    and believe

  18. #7818
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    Feb 2008
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    Udapimp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    I went with a set of Lion LiFePO4, 100ah. I wired them in parallel but for some reason only one battery would charge / discharge. The other would lose potential across the terminals. I can't figure out why, whether it's faulty batteries or faulty wiring. If faulty wiring, I'm having difficulty understanding how it could totally ruin the battery like that. It's happened twice so far, but I got both batteries as a pair, so maybe they just had a bad batch or something...
    maybe an issue w/built in BMS?
    embrace the gape
    and believe

  19. #7819
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Meiss Meadows
    Posts
    1,706
    BattleBorn, with the interior heater, for solar charging below 27*.
    Yes.

  20. #7820
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    Jan 2009
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    Park City
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    3,990
    Would love to have the built in battery heater. When my batteries die Iím in.


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  21. #7821
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    Mar 2014
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    7B Selkirks USA
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    Thanks again for the input. Yes my diesel heater/Jackery is an independent system. And it's actually an Audew, not a Jackery (but I didn't want to get in the weeds with details.) The Audew has jumpers on them and exceeds the normal 10A limit that most solar gens have. That was crucial for powering the diesel heater. Perhaps I would still have some juice left to jump start if needed. I am just looking for fail safes on a not totally ideal DC setup. So check me on this: Dual purpose batteries will have the same juice for either slow drain or CCA. The advantage is that if you drain to 50% of the batteries power, you wont do damage to the unit. Whereas, the normal starter battery will suffer damage with repeated drains and recharges. Yes? So, if I were to drain the dual battery 50% or more using my lights/ usb, I may not have the juice to start the truck, but I will not have done damage to the battery once it is recharged? I'm always amazed at the collective knowledge and experience on these forums....

  22. #7822
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    Jan 2005
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenai View Post
    So, if I were to drain the dual battery 50% or more using my lights/ usb, I may not have the juice to start the truck, but I will not have done damage to the battery once it is recharged?
    A general rule of thumb for any AGM or lead acid battery is to never consume more than 50% of the total amp hours the battery is rated for. So for a 100 amp hour battery, you never want to use more than 50 amp hours without recharging. If you do so repeatedly, it will shorten the life span of the battery dramatically. One advantage of LiFePO4 (lithium) is that that 50% rule doesn't apply and it is more like 90%.

  23. #7823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    I went with a set of Lion LiFePO4, 100ah. I wired them in parallel but for some reason only one battery would charge / discharge. The other would lose potential across the terminals. I can't figure out why, whether it's faulty batteries or faulty wiring. If faulty wiring, I'm having difficulty understanding how it could totally ruin the battery like that. It's happened twice so far, but I got both batteries as a pair, so maybe they just had a bad batch or something...
    Have you checked every step of the system with a multi meter? What readings do you get?

  24. #7824
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0ardski View Post
    Haven't looked into a lithium charge controller yet may just get it from battleborn.
    Most modern solar charge controllers would have a lithium setting. I have a Victron SmartSolar Bluetooth MPPT Solar Charge Controller. Not the cheapest, but the bluetooth controls are slick and makes any trouble shooting easier. Victron makes a good battery monitor too, but expensive for what it is. Cheapo option is the AiLi Voltmeter Ammeter Voltage Current Meter. For ultimate lithium setup you would charge both from solar and get a dc to dc charger, which most have a lithium setting built in.

  25. #7825
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tahoe
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    14,028
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    A general rule of thumb for any AGM or lead acid battery is to never consume more than 50% of the total amp hours the battery is rated for. So for a 100 amp hour battery, you never want to use more than 50 amp hours without recharging. If you do so repeatedly, it will shorten the life span of the battery dramatically. One advantage of LiFePO4 (lithium) is that that 50% rule doesn't apply and it is more like 90%.
    Here's a decent comparison from someone that sells both
    https://gpelectric.com/choosing-batteries-for-rv/
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

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