Ski RV's, who's sleeping in parking lots?

[jackattack]

I would get a quote for the cost of replacement from a van up fitter. It’ll be ridiculous I’m sure in this market.

[heckacali]

Sorry for your loss.
Start scouring classifieds for converted van comps for sale and print/ copy them all, anywhere near what you had as far as build out, just to have paper to show them what it would cost to replace in the real world, to backup your claim.

[powdork]

RV mags, I'm in a tricky spot and wondering if anybody has insight/advice. In short, my ski van and effectively everything else I owned was destroyed in the Marshall Fire (Boulder, CO) on Dec. 30th.

It was insured, and I had previously disclosed and provided value estimates for the conversion costs (all DIY, fml). My biggest fear in owning this thing was always valuation during a total loss event, and here we are. I think insurance is undervaluing the van by ~$10K. They have depreciated the conversion costs listed on the policy by roughly 80%. Fully prepared to get kicked in the crotch on this but I'd like to at least make an attempt at a counter offer.

My questions are:
1) Has anybody successfully countered an auto insurance claim, and if so what was the process?
2) What supporting documentation, if any, would help my cause?

Always meant to post pictures of the build/van here and definitely regret not doing so, but here are some of the few I have left. RIP ski van, 350+ nights in this thing.

I can't help but I do see a lot of ads from lawyers looking to help almost exactly you against insurance companies. Talk to one and see if it's worth giving them three to get your 10.

[eldereldo]

I can't help but I do see a lot of ads from lawyers looking to help almost exactly you against insurance companies. Talk to one and see if it's worth giving them three to get your 10.

You’ll most likely give them 7, unless you can afford to pay their fees out of pocket, lawyers working on the ‘you don’t pay us unless we win’ gig, will take most of your payout.

[DanoT]

You’ll most likely give them 7, unless you can afford to pay their fees out of pocket, lawyers working on the ‘you don’t pay us unless we win’ gig, will take most of your payout.

I don't know how it works today, but decades ago when I was an insurance claim adjuster, in Canada a lawyer took a percentage of the claim as fee, payable win or loose the case. While in the USA the lawyer would charge nothing if he lost the case and 50% of the award if he won.

[HHTELE]

I'm sure it's pretty simple. I can build just about anything, but vehicle related wiring makes my brain hurt.

Running the truck for only 20 mins will charge up a large house battery? If true the solar does seem totally unnecessary.
?

So, that's what I thought as well. We sleep cold, and I fire up the engine in the morning to speed up heating anyway.

FWIW- I tried the no solar route with 100+ AH AGMs and a properly wired isolator. I killed two batteries by running them too low, which really reduces their life span. I figured all these #vanlife trustfunders were over complicating things because solar is hip. And, I have 6 cylinders of raw RAM power to make electricity. Not so much.

The problem, as I understand it, is that a modern alternator does not put out a constant flow. That 200 amp alternator put's out 200 amps at 4000 rpm, not idle speed. And, like a decent battery charger, it varies the actual amps depending on the state of charge. None of this is designed to efficiently charge an RV battery.

Similar to the CTEK above, I went with a Renogy, two 100 amp solar panels, and a 200 AH agm. This may be overkill for my needs, but I was getting tired of buying batteries, and it will be nice to just have the power I want.

And- 12 volt wiring is pretty easy, and might be a good excuse to buy new tools, like a good wirestripper, a battery lug crimper. Who knows what other tools you could justify buying with this project.

[Norseman]

vibes, North. sorry all your shit burned, that really sucks.

[altasnob]

RE: the insurance claim question. In Washington state, if you sue your insurance company and win you get three times damages, plus attorney fees. So if you hire an attorney and then win a $1,000 judgment from you, that becomes $3,000. And if the attorney spent $97,000 working to get that $1,000, the total award is $100,000. How much you keep depends on the contract you enter with the attorney. Could be you get 2/3rds of total. Could be you only get damages and attorney gets the $97,000. Of course, Colorado laws may be different but most states have strong consumer protection laws against bad acts of insurance companies.

I say all this not because you should go lawyer up. But that you should be aware of this as leverage when you negotiate with your insurance company. An attorney would only take the case if they think it is an easy win. And if it is an easy win, why can't you just do things yourself? It's just contract law. Get a copy of your policy. Read and understand all the provisions. The question is has the insurance company breached the contract? Use common sense to prove fair market value. As others have said, craigslist or any other source for comparables. Proving the value of a custom built van that has aged is obviously difficult. Do you have newer, high value components? For instance, if you just purchased a newer DC refrigerator, find a comparible for that individual component of the build. The more documentation, the better. And if you did put in new, high value components, you would have needed to update your insurance company with that info (they are not going to pay out for something they didn't even know about).

[mcphee]

And if it is an easy win, why can't you just do things yourself? It's just contract law. Get a copy of your policy. Read and understand all the provisions.

Any dipshit can do this. What are you, some kind of dipshit?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[fatnslow]

Seems like starting with itemized list of features in the van as well as comparable units for sale currently would be a decent start. I recently had to deal with a homeowners claim and the amount of incompetence was unreal. In the end I kept at it with justifiable compensation for my coverage and it was paid out. You need to know EXACTLY what your policy covers then start the process to reach that end.

[simple]

Here is a comp

https://westslope.craigslist.org/cto...430763132.html

[meter-man]

First off, that fucking sucks. I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't even imagine.

Talk to a Colorado insurance lawyer - it's different in every state. Treble damages here in California too. But litigating a case against insurance companies it is definitely NOT something a layperson can do. That said, do all the legwork Altasnob recommended, and (1) a lawyer is much more likely to take your case and (2) you are much more likely to win. Good luck.

Please PM or post if you need any ski gear or other stuff.

Shit...I think we need a Help Maggot North thread.

RE: the insurance claim question. In Washington state, if you sue your insurance company and win you get three times damages, plus attorney fees. So if you hire an attorney and then win a $1,000 judgment from you, that becomes $3,000. And if the attorney spent $97,000 working to get that $1,000, the total award is $100,000. How much you keep depends on the contract you enter with the attorney. Could be you get 2/3rds of total. Could be you only get damages and attorney gets the $97,000. Of course, Colorado laws may be different but most states have strong consumer protection laws against bad acts of insurance companies.

I say all this not because you should go lawyer up. But that you should be aware of this as leverage when you negotiate with your insurance company. An attorney would only take the case if they think it is an easy win. And if it is an easy win, why can't you just do things yourself? It's just contract law. Get a copy of your policy. Read and understand all the provisions. The question is has the insurance company breached the contract? Use common sense to prove fair market value. As others have said, craigslist or any other source for comparables. Proving the value of a custom built van that has aged is obviously difficult. Do you have newer, high value components? For instance, if you just purchased a newer DC refrigerator, find a comparible for that individual component of the build. The more documentation, the better. And if you did put in new, high value components, you would have needed to update your insurance company with that info (they are not going to pay out for something they didn't even know about).

[fleaches]

RV mags, I'm in a tricky spot and wondering if anybody has insight/advice. In short, my ski van and effectively everything else I owned was destroyed in the Marshall Fire (Boulder, CO) on Dec. 30th.

It was insured, and I had previously disclosed and provided value estimates for the conversion costs (all DIY, fml). My biggest fear in owning this thing was always valuation during a total loss event, and here we are. I think insurance is undervaluing the van by ~$10K. They have depreciated the conversion costs listed on the policy by roughly 80%. Fully prepared to get kicked in the crotch on this but I'd like to at least make an attempt at a counter offer.

My questions are:
1) Has anybody successfully countered an auto insurance claim, and if so what was the process?
2) What supporting documentation, if any, would help my cause?

Always meant to post pictures of the build/van here and definitely regret not doing so, but here are some of the few I have left. RIP ski van, 350+ nights in this thing.

I also have some ski gear for you if any of it works, shoot me a PM.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[altasnob]

But litigating a case against insurance companies it is definitely NOT something a layperson can do.

Just to be clear on my advice, I am not saying you should go sue your insurance company yourself. I am saying you should try to negotiate and settle with the insurance company yourself. And that you should educate yourself on the laws before you try to negotiate so that you are aware of the leverage you have in that negotiation. If you do end up hiring an attorney and suing, that costs the insurance company an additional $10k, at a minimum, to defend the lawsuit. This doesn't mean the insurance company will just role over. It's a war between insurance companies and plaintiff's attorneys and the insurance company wants to maintain the front line. But I find if your demand is reasonable and factually correct, the insurance company will eventually fold rather than risk having to pay litigation costs.

The vast majority of issues with insurance companies are settled without the need for lawyers. And of the few that end up in the hands of lawyers, probably half should not have ended up in the hands of lawyers. Your dealing with auto policy? Any other policy that might cover (rental, home owners)?

[mcphee]

Just to be clear on my advice, I am not saying you should go sue your insurance company yourself. I am saying you should try to negotiate and settle with the insurance company yourself. And that you should educate yourself on the laws before you try to negotiate so that you are aware of the leverage you have in that negotiation. If you do end up hiring an attorney and suing, that costs the insurance company an additional $10k, at a minimum, to defend the lawsuit. This doesn't mean the insurance company will just role over. It's a war between insurance companies and plaintiff's attorneys and the insurance company wants to maintain the front line. But I find if your demand is reasonable and factually correct, the insurance company will eventually fold rather than risk having to pay litigation costs.

The vast majority of issues with insurance companies are settled without the need for lawyers. And of the few that end up in the hands of lawyers, probably half should not have ended up in the hands of lawyers. Your dealing with auto policy? Any other policy that might cover (rental, home owners)?

I seriously feel sorry for your clients.

[North]

Thanks for the input guys.

This hasn't risen to the level of legal action yet IMO. The adjuster is from Georgia, and likely has never seen a converted 4x4 van or has any idea what they are worth in the western states. Appreciate the info about that route in the event it gets to that point. I have a contact for an insurance lawyer through a defense attorney friend.

I do have a spreadsheet listing the cost, date purchased, etc. for every item that went into the build. This is the basis for the conversion costs that were provided to insurance and are listed on the policy. All of my receipts burned but I can find email copies for many of the bigger purchases if necessary. I have a crappy photo of my original cad design and the cad file for the most complicated piece of furniture in the van.

I had thought of getting comps but had/have my doubts about private party comps. Do insurance companies value these comps in any way? People post shit for whatever crazy price they want on craigslist. I can probably get a Bill of Sale, and supporting docs for a friend's Express that sold in May. If anybody has a direct contact with a local builder, shoot me a PM. I will likely reach out to a few.

Appreciate the offers for help in this thread and others. I'm space constricted at the moment and determining what aid I'm getting from insurance, gubment etc. so once I get that sorted I will for sure let this ragged crew of internet skiers know what would be helpful.

[El Chupacabra]

How much $ discrepancy are you looking at between the insurance first offer and what you legitimately think the value was?

An alternative to lawyering up might be to talk to an independent adjuster (Google and find a local one, call them) and ask if they can be of assistance on your side of the claims process. Their rate should be a lot less than lawyer fees.

[BFD]

So, that's what I thought as well. We sleep cold, and I fire up the engine in the morning to speed up heating anyway.

FWIW- I tried the no solar route with 100+ AH AGMs and a properly wired isolator. I killed two batteries by running them too low, which really reduces their life span. I figured all these #vanlife trustfunders were over complicating things because solar is hip. And, I have 6 cylinders of raw RAM power to make electricity. Not so much.

The problem, as I understand it, is that a modern alternator does not put out a constant flow. That 200 amp alternator put's out 200 amps at 4000 rpm, not idle speed. And, like a decent battery charger, it varies the actual amps depending on the state of charge. None of this is designed to efficiently charge an RV battery.

Similar to the CTEK above, I went with a Renogy, two 100 amp solar panels, and a 200 AH agm. This may be overkill for my needs, but I was getting tired of buying batteries, and it will be nice to just have the power I want.

And- 12 volt wiring is pretty easy, and might be a good excuse to buy new tools, like a good wirestripper, a battery lug crimper. Who knows what other tools you could justify buying with this project.

Thanks for that post was looking at the CTEK. Your link had better explanation. Was wondering why previous poster did not have isolation switch in their diagram. Apparently these units include battery isolation.

[North]

How much $ discrepancy are you looking at between the insurance first offer and what you legitimately think the value was?

An alternative to lawyering up might be to talk to an independent adjuster (Google and find a local one, call them) and ask if they can be of assistance on your side of the claims process. Their rate should be a lot less than lawyer fees.

Roughly $10K. This is based on exactly one comp (my friends similarly built van that sold in May). I need more info to justify my number obviously, but everything I've seen so far would indicate that the market has only gotten dumber since then.

[Bronco]

Thanks for the input guys.

This hasn't risen to the level of legal action yet IMO. The adjuster is from Georgia, and likely has never seen a converted 4x4 van or has any idea what they are worth in the western states. Appreciate the info about that route in the event it gets to that point. I have a contact for an insurance lawyer through a defense attorney friend.

I do have a spreadsheet listing the cost, date purchased, etc. for every item that went into the build. This is the basis for the conversion costs that were provided to insurance and are listed on the policy. All of my receipts burned but I can find email copies for many of the bigger purchases if necessary. I have a crappy photo of my original cad design and the cad file for the most complicated piece of furniture in the van.

I had thought of getting comps but had/have my doubts about private party comps. Do insurance companies value these comps in any way? People post shit for whatever crazy price they want on craigslist. I can probably get a Bill of Sale, and supporting docs for a friend's Express that sold in May. If anybody has a direct contact with a local builder, shoot me a PM. I will likely reach out to a few.

Appreciate the offers for help in this thread and others. I'm space constricted at the moment and determining what aid I'm getting from insurance, gubment etc. so once I get that sorted I will for sure let this ragged crew of internet skiers know what would be helpful.

I had an F150 totaled that I thought the adjuster was low balling me until the sent me a link to an identical truck for sale (including the canopy, trim level and color) with lower miles for less than what they were offering me. It won't hurt you to find some comp sales and show them your custom finishes and what they cost. May not get you $10k but will probably get you closer.

[fatnslow]

Roughly $10K. This is based on exactly one comp (my friends similarly built van that sold in May). I need more info to justify my number obviously, but everything I've seen so far would indicate that the market has only gotten dumber since then.

They always start low but if you can "reasonably" justify the value you should have room to move . Of course this all depends on how you policy is written for coverage and compensation. Maybe you can post rough specs here and TGR mob can overwhelm you with comps ? You can pick/choose to your benefit.

[heckacali]

Re: comps.
For your question you post to go, yes comps are absolutely important data points to use to defend the actual market replacement cost of the vehicle lost.
The insurance companies obligation is to make you whole right now for the vehicle you lost. That means putting you in a similar vehicle regardless of what it costs right now. The fact that you may have built yours or bought yours way cheaper 5 10 years ago when the market was different is irrelevant. what is it worth now?
That's what comps show, especially for specialty custom vehicles where Kelly blue book isn't useful
Pull every sports mobile for sale ad you can from all over the country and save them as ammunition.

[eldereldo]

Re: comps.
For your question you post to go, yes comps are absolutely important data points to use to defend the actual market replacement cost of the vehicle lost.
The insurance companies obligation is to make you whole right now for the vehicle you lost. That means putting you in a similar vehicle regardless of what it costs right now. The fact that you may have built yours or bought yours way cheaper 5 10 years ago when the market was different is irrelevant. what is it worth now?
That's what comps show, especially for specialty custom vehicles where Kelly blue book isn't useful
Pull every sports mobile for sale ad you can from all over the country and save them as ammunition.

if you want to be guaranteed to get enough to buy a comparable vehicle you need to make sure that is spelled out in the policy. You can also get what is called an ‘Agreed Value’ policy where you (usually) get an appraisal done and then are insured for that value. These are often used for custom or collectors vehicles. Some of them will have a built in escalator, but mostly you need to make sure you review and up your policy to keep up with any raising values.

[sander_h]

Sure wish I had the money to purchase this setup-'09 2500 Dodge Ram Cummins 44.5k miles with a like-new '08 Northern Lite Camper sitting in the bed. $63k obo for the combo or $41k obo for truck and $26k obo for camper.

https://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto...419945887.html

[Trackhead]

Sure wish I had the money to purchase this setup-'09 2500 Dodge Ram Cummins 44.5k miles with a like-new '08 Northern Lite Camper sitting in the bed. $63k obo for the combo or $41k obo for truck and $26k obo for camper.

https://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto...419945887.html

Nice rig. Selling on behalf of parents = probably perfect condition.